Well, you touched a vital point/question here Han. Montella. I must say, I'm worried.

I heard that Kessie was more than decent today, but I didn't watch the game.

First half Kessie could barely complete a pass. I later realised he was playing completely out of position. He is NOT a defensive midfielder going by that display - much more central. He looked uncomfortably in the position, simple as that.

And correct Han - we played 4-3-3 and it was extremely poor. It was no different to last season. But that said, and I know you've all missed them like a genital wart, but here's Danny's Post Match ratings (which everyone will disagree with).

Storari: 5 Weak. Made a solid save at the end but shouldn't have been beaten for the first. Showed why he's a deputy goalie.

Abate: 5 Quiet really, made little impact on the match.

Zapata: 5 Actually did ok in the second half but tragic in the first.

Paletta: 3 Ugh just ditch him already. He's the new Mexes. Mr Red card Penalty Protestation.

Rodriguez: 6 He was ok, didn't really stand out but didn't do too much wrong either.

Mauri: 6 A fair bit of energy and effort, maybe not perfect on the quality

Jack: 0 I literally don't think I noticed him touch the ball on a single occasion. He wasn't bad, he was just completely invisible.

Kessie: 5 DM is not his position, and it showed. He was patchy at best.

Niang: 3 Usual

Bacca: 7 Effort, industry, even showing strength plus the goal.

Borini: 6 Nothing spectacular.

Subs:

I'll just point out the notable ones:

Musacchio: 8 Inside 15 seconds of the restart it was obvious he was a class above. Really REALLY looks the part. Can already see Romagnoli on the bench if we play a four because I'd choose this guy.

Calhanoglu: 8 Really got into it, looked like he's been a Milanisti for years. Touch of class and had no fear.

Cutrone: 0 Showed why he will not play any role in serious action this season. I've seen a rabbit in headlights with less fear and more composure.

Sosa: 7 Weirdly his cameo was actually quite tidy.

Antonelli: 7 He did a bit better than Rodriguez.

Montella: 3 PLEASE DITCH THE FOUR THREE THREE K THANKS BYE.

Ok I was evidently watching a different Kessie to the one being lauded by everyone! To me he looked lost and it took till the 25th minute before he completed a pass correctly. He did improve marginally in the second half but a stand out he was not. But then everyone always disagrees with me anyway so

Yup, I share that concern. I was already getting deeply concerned by about March about Montella then when he got his four year deal I had to ditch it but he REALLY REALLY REALLY NEEDS TO DROP THE FOUR THREE THREE KTHXBYE

Not sure what to think about Kessie,

Give him a chance. I was positive about his signing, and I remain hopeful he'll be an asset, but yeah, if he's still playing like that in a month, I'd be a little concerned.

That said, every other f*cker seems to think he was the ghost of Pirlo or something so what the hell do I know

I don't know man. Even Football Italia in their report said Mussachio and Kessie played well. And that Montella experimented with a 4-1-4-1 shape.

I didn't see the game, so I'm going purely by the reports I read.

For the first 30 minutes he could NOT complete a pass. He was ropey and didn't seem to know what his role was. And I couldn't for the life of me figure out why he was playing pretty much in front of the back four.

He improved a bit in the second half, but he didn't exact stamp his authority on the game.

He looks a unit, but he worryingly actually reminded me of Muntari. Hopefully one of two things happen: 1: he plays better v Munich 2: my eyes refocus and see the stunning player in that one who apparently showed up today.

https://www.facebook.com/Fantagazzetta/vide...FIMYt0YIqVadpKk

These sentences make me even more worried. It's like he's regressing with us.

I really wondered why we kept him on. Honestly he peaked between August and November, and while fans cut him slack afterwards saying the decline was because of the limited squad, there's more underneath the hood than just that.

I am worried he is not the right man to take Milan forward and today did little to shake that.

The build up play was pretty messy but it was to be expected as some of these players have never played together. I think for the next couple of friendlies before the Europa League games, I will be observing the individual skills of the players. In this game, I thought the new players with the exception of Rodriguez; i.e. Kessie, Musacchio and Calhanoglu showed that they are a step above to what we have been used to in the past. Yes, in this game their passing game was pretty sloppy at times, slow movement off the ball and in general the team lacked understanding but this will improve over time.

So I am not going to comment too much on this defeat as it only makes sense for Montella to experiment with different formations with different players after this squad overhaul.

Thing is like you I was only really focused on individuals. I paid lots of attention especially to the new signings, and while two of them REALLY impressed me, one was modest and one seemed quite underwhelming.

But it's interesting that Rodriguez didn't impress you. Because everyone else seems to be loving him and I too was slightly 'meh' regarding him. So are we wrong? Is everyone else wrong?



Dude, the problem is he ISN'T experimenting. It was 4-3-3 occasionally looking like a 4-1-4-1. That's what we did last season isn't it?!

Guys, keep calm and smile. Games like these tell nothing. It was our first proper showing this summer with a very mediocre line-up. Storari, Zapata, Paletta, Mauri, Borini, Niang. Some of these will be sold while others will warm the bench. The team is still under construction. By season start we'll have a completely new face.

WTF, why do you sound so worried after just 1 friendly? Even Ancelotti lost these...

Didn't see the game (was at work) but am unsurprised at the result, given that BVB are ahead of us in preseason prep and we have a bunch of new guys and didn't even play the best of the new ones.

So not worried at this point if it was as bad as people seem to think it was. I'll be a whole lot more worried if it's shambolic for the EL qualifiers.

Did not see the game either. Reports from various sources seem to disagree with some of the assessments of the players I have seen on this thread.

I agree that we should not over-react to a friendly, played largely with reserves, and the first real test against a serious team that has had a little more time to train. That said, I kind of share the concerns about Montella. I like him, but this year will be his first real test with a team that on paper could finish in the top 3-4.

I think he'll definitely switch it up to a 3-man back line or a 4-man back line that suits the players he has. 4-3-3 is certainly not the one though because we don't have any wingers

In fact he said today that he's considering the 3-man defence. However, with Romagnoli still injured, I don't know if we'll go with this initially, but if we are to go for a back 4 then I hope it's a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 and not a 4-3-3 because we simply do not have the players for it

That being said, I think he stuck to it because it was mostly players from last season who started with the exception of Kessie and Rodriguez, so I can see the logic behind using it for these games.

My worry is that he's not going to to have the opportunity to try the new guys out as a set 11 before we play the EL qualifiers.

That being said, we were playing Dortmund today who had what I think is probably their strongest 11 out there or as close to it as you can get in a summer friendly, they're ahead of us in their pre-season and they're already a well oiled machine as this is basically the same squad as last season. I also read that we could have gotten a better result in the second half as we had the chances but fluffed our lines


I'm not going to get into the ratings because I didn't watch so I can't really dispute, but the general consensus I got from reading on the net and watching highlight videos and individual player compilations was that Kessie was apparently as bad as you're saying in the first half - this is mostly because he was played in the regista position and was basically dropping between the 2 CBs to pick up the ball - this is definitely not his game though, I'm wondering why Montella would even use him in such a way. Kessie is pure box-to-box, and we shouldn't be using him as a DM. That being said, I also read that he improved a lot in the 2nd half which is probably why we see all the adulation as when people want to really get behind someone they forget the bad and roll with the good. So if he ended his performance on a good note, this could be why you're seeing a more lopsided assessment

Hakan, Musacchio and Rodrigues were impressive from what I read as well, also, consider the fact that Rodriguez had Niang ahead of him while Antonelli had Hakan, and this could be the reason why one looked a bit better. Hakan looked great when Bona or Antonelli overlapped him and he continuously played them in, while Rodriguez didn't have that kind of smart player ahead of him as Niang is simply a headless chicken

You know, I'm not going to worry about this, it's a friendly we've always been terrible in pre-season games even during the glory years under Carlo, add to that, Montella started a lot of the old players (some of which we know for a fact will be leaving), so he kept the old shape and tactics and just stuck the new guys in. I think we'll definitely see a change in tactics/system when Bonucci, Conti and Biglia come into the mix

Re-Bacca, I mean, I watched the highlights and he barely featured aside from that shot which was good no doubt but it was as badly conceded as the Sahin one we let in. Keepers terrible on both.

Just want to add that the result isn't so bad considering one of the goals was a penalty (Paletta is consistent if nothing else) and the other was a terrible attempt at a save by our back up keeper (maybe we should really consider making A. Dolla the number 2)


Could it be because he was playing the DM position in the first half? I'm mostly asking because from the clips I watched he looked to be playing a classic DM role in the 1st half while in the 2nd he was definitely positioned more to the side of the midfield and looked like he was given more licence to maraud forward


Montella imo is a good tactician, whether he can handle the pressure that's now been put upon him is another thing all together. But I still have faith in him.


Agreed

And anyway, Dortmun and Bayern were always going to be a kick in the teeth, we couldn't have picked worse sides to play against. Both are well oiled machines who are already much further into their pre-season than we are, there teams are already well formed and have been playing with each other for a while, so expecting some kind of miracle result while we were still utilizing the likes of Paletta, Zapata, Niang was pointless

I said the same after Rangers lost pre-season friendly after pre-season friendly. Then it got worse against Europe's statistically 10th worst team in UEL first round when we managed the worst result in the club's history.

If it looks REALLY bad pre-season chances are it's not just for sh*ts and giggles. There is a case for tactical tinkering and fitness issues, but if things aren't clicking pre-season after multiple alterations and attempts, what difference exactly is a couple of weeks before season start/competitive action going to make?

So I dearly hope for improvement against Bayern otherwise this is already looking bad.

I've forgotten what parts in here are mine so I'm just gonna smile and pray In general, I mean.

If you think we're going to do better against Bayern think again

This was really our first pre-season game with a strange mish-mash of players put together, some of which we already know will be sold, so it's pointless to over-analyse as you're not going to get much of anything from these 2 games.

Let's also point out that we're only participating in these friendlies because they're in China, we were never going to miss this opportunity and we've been hearing how important going to China was since April

Oh I expect to lose but that's not the same as not expecting improvement. If we try a better formation, more of our new players, then we can give a reasonable account of ourselves and see signs of progress.

But we have to play better football. Whoever we face. We canNOT go another season playing this present form of directionless guff.

I am expecting Bonucci and Biglia will help provide some direction. (Then again, It may be wishful thinking on my part.)

Of course they will. As will Musacchio, Conti, Kessie, Rodriguez, Calhanoglu, Silva and whatever striker we may sign. You all seem to be forgetting that right now this team is under construction. It's a mish-mash of new players and old players waiting to leave.

The line-up and formation deployed by Montella against Dortmund was a mess, and it doesn't represent what we should expect when the new season starts.

Be patient. We're starting a new era, it will take a short while till things start clicking.

Short while is fine. I literally define that as a few weeks of competitive action. Even if results are not impeccable to start with there has to be a clear sign of progress.

You don't spend 200M to wait 6 months for it to work.

Bonucci is a marquee signing and could well kick start the lot of them into action. But Montella does need to develop a better system to suit his players. We now have the tools at our disposal to construct a great team - Montella does not have the excuse now he had last season.

If there is no clear improvement by around October I would genuinely say his position is under threat. So let's hope we do see it before then, and it's tangible.

Yes, of course. End of October is when I expect things to be in line.

By the time we get to October, we'll be out of EL - just like a Glenn Campbell line hahaha.

Nah, we'll go through from the qualifiers and I think we'll do well in the groups.

I'm not expecting a diabolical start, but I'm definitely expecting a patchy one. That's why I've reiterated that no matter who we sign, we're not going to be Scudetto contenders this season. Juve and Napoli are already finished products. It's going to take time for us to come anywhere near them in terms of team cohesiveness/chemistry

Juve? I don't think so. They've lost Alves and Bonucci, Sandro seems to be leaving as well. I think they took some pretty nasty blows and by loosing two very combative fullbacks their midfield deficiencies could start showing. I don't know.

As for Napoli, Sarri is a good tactician and all that, but with all honesty I fail to see the real quality in this team. Hamšik and Insigne are very good players, while the rest - especially the defense - is nothing special to be honest.

Sure they've taken some blows in the market, but they seem to take a blow each summer and they continue plaughing on through the league.

I don't think they'll let Sandro go now that they lost Bonucci and Alves, last I read he was going to extend and they rejected a massive bid from Chelsea. And even if they do lose important players, they're still a much better unit then us atm, we're a completely new side so we're going to need time. If we get an easy fixture list to start with we could do better than I'm expecting, but if we get a tricky schedule we could struggle for consistency

As for Napoli, imo they're one of the most fluid sides I've watched in a while, sure they have weak areas and it doesn't look like they're doing much to improve them this summer, but it's good that they're keeping a low profile as the key for them is to keep their best players

I'll give you the defence, but their midfield and attack imo is the best in the league right now. Mertens, Insigne, Hamsik, Allan would walk into the Juve line-up imo

Pretty sure Alex Sandro is staying. That said, the rest of their backline is aging - Bonucci was the youngest of the group - and the backups aren't anywhere near that level.

The Gobbi's real on field issue is their midfield and buying all the wingers in the world isn't going to fix that.

Some Gobbi friends were chatting the other day (yes, I hang out with Juve fans sometimes) and they seem to be of the opinion that something is off at the club, whether at the squad/coach level (rumors that others aren't happy with Allegri) or something to do with management. They're concerned, for what it's worth.

Have to agree on Juve. There's a little groundswell of change. Some dissent against Allegri, loss of Bonucci and Alves on emotional rather than football reasons, and the feeling of an end of an era. An era which probably ended when they lost UCL final. They're still the ones to beat, but they're more vulnerable now than they've been since before Conte took charge.

+1

Yes, but eventually they'll fail. For the first time pressure is coming from Milan and not the regular losers, Roma and Napoli.

Also all the major blows they took were covered with quantity and the stability of the backline. Now that this is gone, I think we could take a shot at them, rattle their cage.


Hopefully it's the Allegri-mode. Some pretty strong indications like Bonucci's rather sudden exit and the thing with Dani Alves, even Barzagli's comment on Bonucci's departure might show us the direction Juventus is heading.

Who knows what's going on with them, I think you guys are definitely right that there is unrest in the backroom. Whether that's enough to destabilise them is another thing altogether.

I agree with what Danny said, they're definitely more vulnerable than they've been in a while, but they're still the team to beat in Italy

I think if we have that bit of luck to start the season off with like we did last season, we could make the push, but if things go wrong for us in terms of fixtures and Montella finding the right formula, we could take some time to really start seeing consistent results which would take us out of the running

Anyone got a stream for the Bayern friendly ?

http://www.sportingvideo.org/20170721/vv59...83-1737074.html

Try that

1-0 for us. Great build up and goal by Kessie

0-3 to Milan so far, Kessie, Cutrone (2).

Won't lie that was night and day compared to the display v Dortmund.

Can't fault a single player, Kessie MUCH better in a more advanced midfield position, defence looking sharp, and Rodriguez's free kicks were sublime.

Stunning goals, and Cutrone much sharper along with Jack.

Niang running the show down the left while Monto looks 5 years younger.

It looks like a 4-1-4-1 which alters to 4-2-3-1 now and then but whatever it is it's working MUCH better than the first friendly.

I was told off for knee jerk reacting to the first match, so I suspect the same logic would apply here, but if this display is anything to go by Montella learned a sh*itload in the first match and the gelling process might not take long at all.

We looked really good!

I don't want to tear lots of conclusions from just this friendly! But Bayern are no slouchs! And they are trying!

I have just one comment, maybe we should keep Niang after all. I always thought he played like a tank, always powering his way into the defence. Although, he may not be the most technically skilled, I think he might be really useful. His passing was really nice too! It's also nice to see that Bona is in good shape after the injury!

Yeah, I agree! I didn't see the first game. But it seemed everything negative you said in that first game was overturned in this second game.

Nice goal from Hakan!

By the way, I'm really excited about Biglia! Finally a good midfielder!

Closed it out professionally. Really clinical display, hard working, and four excellent goals.

There was literally only one downside and I won't say because I'd get such absolute dog's abuse on here

So will just simmer on a great performance and result.

Biglia was smooth, composed, and looked like he's been ours for seasons. No gelling needed for him!

My worry about Niang is he ALWAYS does this in pre-season then when the real action starts he's a mess again.

Well, well, well...

Obviously it's another preparatory game. We shouldn't think that we can suddenly defeat Bayern 4-0 in an official match, but all the same it was a very good performance that gave very reassuring signals. Some players are starting to click, others will eventually. Montella has a very good group of players in his hands, it's up to him to make them perform now.

I really liked Musacchio, Kessie and Calhanoglu from the news faces, whereas Niang was surprisingly great. But that's the thing with him. He can perform decently once in a while, but then it's followed by lots of sh*t.

Niang's main problem is his clumsiness and lack of end product. And while I'm very harsh on him, he did have some nice plays today. That being said, if he can help facilitate a Belotti move somehow, then he'll need to go, we still have Suso back home, and he's 3 times the player Niang is.

I have to say, that all the new signings were impressive today. I think Silva will definitely need a striker partner though, he's all movement and hard work, but he'll need someone to play off of because he tends to drop deep.

I don't know if Bayern were simply not going through the gears since it is a friendly or if we have improved this much in just a few days. These friendlies can be very deceiving. But in terms of linkups and general team play, I'm very happy with the progress we're making, not to mention Montella having to integrate new players practically each week

Danny, good points on the formation dynamic. I agree that the shape kept changing in the first half, also liked how we adapted to 3 at the back once Bonucci and Gomez came on

Yeah, I never had any doubt that he'd slip right in, he's a very smart player plus has a lot of experience. Him and Bonucci will bring a whole new dynamic to the team that the younger players couldn't

I also liked Musacchio a lot, he's one of the most underrated signings we've made this summer, but he looks top notch.


Yep, he tends to start the season well then gets lazy and petulant.


Cutrone btw has a lot of potential, we should look into loaning him to a Serie A side where he'll get regular minutes