Every club has this, but as we know, Milan are not every club.

Basically the most illustrious teams in any club's history are usually what fans would describe as a class befitting the club's name. The standard they expect.

For Barca they will always expect Messi/Iniesta/Xavi/Ronaldinho/Eto'o type quality. Won't settle for less now. Man Utd expect Giggs, Van Persie, Ferdinand etc.

For us it's clearly the quality of Maldini, Baresi, Boban, Pirlo, old Kaka, Gullit, MVB etc etc.

Question is will we ever see 'Milan class' again?

Right now we have debatably one player who comes close to being uttered in that kind of breath, Balotelli. And truth is he isn't the finished article, his attitude is often disgraceful and that's now 5 matches we've lost him for through poor conduct.

We have very good players like De Jong (imo arguably one of the top 5 DM's around), Monto (out of form at the moment admittedly) and Kaka (nowhere near convincing anyone he's back to the old Kaka) but other than Balo we basically have no 'Milan class' players at all.

Right now this Milan is a new breed, a team we're not familiar with. We're having to be content with Abate, Mexes, Zapata and DS when it used to be Cafu, Maldini, Nesta and Jankulovski.

Times have changed and it may be decades before the true Milan class returns.

Yes we will.

Because of FFP, only the high revenue clubs will be able to sign the best players and compete for trophies (desite UEFA hiding behind the idea that this is somehow "fair"?) and as Milan are one of those clubs, they'll eventually be able to attract the top players again.

Well Danny, you need to examine the reason why Milan had such class and at what expense to maintain that class. There, you will find your answer.


It is a fact that Milan could not afford the teams it had from the turn of the millennium onwards. This created a gap, which the president had to fill every year. People used to complain that the president lost ambition etc, but truth be told he had to pump in anywhere between 70MM and 50MM per year to keep the books in check (not inclusive of player purchases).

As a brand, ACM is world renowned and a powerhouse of European football. But that was all down to the owner and not the club. The club, AC Milan is not rich, quite the contrary, it had filed for bankruptcy the same summer Silvio came in and rescued it.


Now that is out of the way ...

Milan today is different than the Milan we ALL came to know and love. Today it is a project under-construction. Focus on youth, with the odd deals here and there to meet certain requirements (be that sponsorship clauses to have x number of WC players and/or coach's requirements).


The quality of this Milan team is below our expectations, the club no longer can compete with the top clubs of Europe. Strictly due to FFP constraints. As without the owner's funding Milan never was a WC club, nor will it be, until this 'project' is complete.

Barcelona had years of dry spells until it found the perfect blend of players to achieve the success they had. The same is down to the club maintaining a healthy financial position in the past and a dependency on its youth project (which we had recently adopted).


Moreover, and more importantly, it is not a guarantee that Milan will get back to its glorious past, as the club could regress (with or without Berlusconi) and match the fate of Leeds United and the likes.

Why? - Income.

I could take a sample just from this very forum, many of our regular posters don't pay to watch Milan, and instead use online streams for free. Of-course we all do it at some point, but to support the club you would have to contribute to it in some sorts. At the same time, the same sample, even if they did subscribe to Milan games with their local TV providers, there is still a weak fan base in comparison to Juventus or Madrid.


In short, Berlusconi is the only reason why Milan 'was' a class club and under FFP he can not provide for the same. Simply Milan has got a lifeline in its youth project, some smear at it, but that is ok, as not everyone would excel like DS or Maldini. And it could take a decade before we could claim a Scudetto, maybe more.

I don't buy the income argument, sorry. AC Milan are the most wealthy sports club in Italy outwith Ferrari. We have a greater turnover than any other sports club in this country and as Kurt rightly puts it due to aforementioned FFP nonsense we'll be able to attract top class players again befitting with the revenue we generate. I must admit I forgot about that little point.

I find your argument R7 incredibly defeatist, negative, and it implies any success prior to Silvio buying us (2 European Cups, 10 Scudettos and a host of of other trophies are nigh-on redundant.

We were still a great name and side back before he bought us and while I admit our most fruitful overall period has been since 86, Associazone Calio Milano were not born that year with new ownership.

As for supporting via finance, I do agree with that - you're supporting the club if you put cash into it. It's just a pity Milan have historically overcharged for its services, rendering purchase as impossible for a great number of fans. There's also no online legal streaming I know of?

The problem is Berlu and Galliani, Berlu is simply done putting money into the team and Galliani just wastes the little we actually have, so unless these 2 are out we can forget about "Milan class" players coming in any time soon

Hot diggedy, I missed threads like these. There was a time when the forum was filled with such threads, and members discussing things. We even had individual threads to discuss news circa 2007 and 2008. Keep creating them, Danny, feels like a forum. There hasn't been much to go around, save for disappointing performances.

As for Milan class, I blame Galliani for the bulk of our problems. He and Berlusconi are two senile old fools, old models that they have stopped making parts for. Legal streaming, you say? I bet they'd never even have heard of such a thing.

How about having a dedicated website and a local warehouse for the major markets in the world. People can order official stuff from there, and it gets shipped once a month. It will require what, a bit of local franchising, a small team of official reseller in each country where Milan wants to stake a name and gather some foothold.

Heck, they haven't even focused correctly on two of the most important markets where the club is already insanely popular - the Middle East and Far East (Japan, China and countries). Heck, even getting a foothold in these markets could help generate a few extra millions every year that could be put to good use.

I still stand by my hunch that AC Milan a front for their shady activities and under the table deals. They just want the club to remains on the fringes, self sustainable, not really going down below the fifth place, and keep things as they are. If they wanted change for the better there were several players we could have signed.

I can count the affordable quality options we missed out in the past 3 years on my hands and I'd run out of fingers. And that's without even bringing into play the absolute duffers we signed instead of them. Heck, we can't even rectify the goalkeeper situation when it costs us around 10 points every season.

Defeatist? Nottingham Forest have a CL trophy, and Leeds UTD was once a 'power house' of English football. Your very own Rangers went into administration. It is a reality one can not grasp unless you look at the numbers. Numbers don't lie.

But look, its fine and dandy if you like to base it all on assumptions Danny. I look at 'audited' financial statements of the club, if only you could take a peak, you will easily understand where I'm coming from.

There really is not a conspiracy, as some would like to have you believe. But then again, some prefer assumptions to audited financial about the situation at the club.

We will be on top again, it's just a matter of time. Milan is too big to stay like this for too long.

We need somebody new, with money, fresh ideas and aproach to take over. Berlu is busy with his own sh!t and struggling financially while Galliani is doing whatever he wants and mismanaging the team for years. Berlu done a lot for the club over the years but nothing last forever, eventually we'll have to move on.

Moratti can't keep Inter at the top anymore too and now he's stepping down for some Indonesian dude. Same will happen to us, the question is for how long we'll be kept in this mediocre state before it happens. Maybe once we won't have the CL money (and I'm pretty sure we won't finish in top3 this season) that will accelerate the process.

They never were Milan equivalent. We are one of the top clubs in the world, not many can match our titles count and we are a much bigger brand than those clubs you mentioned. Much lesser clubs than us are being bought and invested in all the time in recent years and it will happen to us eventually.

Eventually could potentially be a long wait for us, though. No matter how you play the money game, it will always come down to how it was managed. Whatever philosophy one choses, one has to stick to it. Otherwise, the result will be diddlysquat. We have had a few good youngsters over the years, many who could have transitioned.

Heck, I'd take Merkel over Muntari any given Sunday, Paloschi over Matri. In fact, a visionary management could have foreseen this trouble way back in 2009 or earlier, and groomed even better youngsters. They have been at this for close to three decades now, a child could see the cycles ending and starting.

Instead of a new cycle, we are running in a new circle. The Ibra, Robinho, and company plan went to drain (though it netted us some league success), but instead of improving, we are now in a worse situation. Lack of CL money for a season or two will only sting, that is for sure. More so if we get another wacky new coach in the meantime.

No they don't but if you're comparing Forest or Leeds Utd to either Rangers or Milan you're being slightly deluded. Rangers didn't go into admin because we were broke, we went into admin because HMRC discovered our (then) owner was breaking the law by with-holding PAYE, NI and VAT and they forced the admin call regardless of our finances. It was purely because he broke the law, not because the club was broke.

As for Leeds, they spent too much to over-take Man Utd - think they spent over £100M? That's not powerhouse - it's cash they didn't have. Not the first club to spend cash they didn't have and suffer the consequences.

Milan are nowhere NEAR struggling financially. Our owner just refuses to spend.



Maybe you should post them and show how they prove this club has no disposable profit with which to purchase players or how it isn't actually the top earning sports club in Italy as stated by

Forbes (2013, 27th top sports club overall on earth financially)

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45ikdf/27-ac-milan-2/

Brand Finance (2013, 9th biggest earning brand in Europe).

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/tab...ootball-50-2013



I didn't say anything about a conspiracy? Yes, I prefer facts too, but you have ignored the ones I've presented you with.

You also totally ignored my point about how you can't be overly critical of people using 'dodgy' streams when there isn't actually a legal club-authorised service available they can pay for instead. Only Italian-based Milan Channel (Sky Italia 230) and that's it.

We're the biggest club brand on earth bar 8 and that's incredible given we're barely a top 30 club right now in terms of player quality.

I really don't see how signing Matri (29) and Kaká (31), and offering them high wages translates into 'focusing on youth'. Especially when 75% of the young players we sign turn out to be crap.

Nah, there isn't a project or vision. We're simply struggling with the limited resources we have, because our president doesn't give two shits about this club anymore. Just look at Napoli, Roma and Fiorentina. They don't even compare to us in terms of revenues, yet they've been heavily investing in the last couple of years, and now they have strong enough squads to compete for the first three spots.

Napoli sold Cavani, but signed Reina, Albiol, Callejon, Mertens and Higuain. Fiorentina sold Jovetic, but signed Gomez. Roma sold Marquinhos and Lamela, but signed Benatia, Maicon, Strootman and Ljajic. When we sold Kaká, who did we sign? When we sold Silva and Ibra, who did we sign? There's the difference. It's ambition, nothing more and nothing less. And our management has none of it left.

+100

Hey Dan-O.

The truth is both you and R7 are right.

We're up the creek financially. We truly are. You look at the revenue itself. The honest truth is we're nowhere near the clubs who are better than us.

Now ignore player quality for a moment or league standings. If you take our performance in the last 3 to 4 years in CL as a benchmark for our rough ranking, we're roughly a top 20 club. With a few exceptions, almost all the other clubs earn and spend more than we do.

The reasons for this are many, and not just as simplistic as Berlu not spending.

- We have kept having lesser revenues in the San Siro. Not only is average attendance dropped below 50k (in an 80k stadium), we are also having relatively lesser revenue per ticket (relative to Chelsea, Arsenal etc.)

- The re-negotiated TV deal has kicked us hard in the gonads.

- Even if you want someone to take over the firm, you need to show some kind of positive cashflow.

- I'm still not inclined to blame Galliani competely for the whole mess. He is still imo a great transfer guru...in fact every fan with the exception of Mlianistas admit it. If he has a fault I blame it on too much sentimentality.



Frankly, I want a revolution too. I want this club to be back where it belongs, steamrolling Serie A and taking Europe by the scruff of the neck. For me THAT is Milan class.

I want a team built from the back with unquestionable quality, and probably the strongest spine in World Football. THAT is Milan class.

But I also have to admit that maybe we still require to build some sort of economic foundation before a true revolution can be started.

Things that are non-footballing related that come to mind are:

- Refurbishing San Siro. Inter's own uncertainty on the future hits us there.

- Renegotiating and increasing commercial reach

- Refocusing and re-creating a youth strategy

- Rebuilding the Milan brand as an independent institution.


Now points 2 and 3 are definitely showing progress. The last point imo becomes very important because it seems clear to me that Finninvest under the Berlusca kids have no more interest in AC Milan as a subsidiary. To them it is an albatross to be gotten rid of asap. I don't think bar old Silvio and Barbara there is any interest in it.

At the same time selling something that has a fierce Italian identity is probably also irking the board and I can understand the sentimentality involved.

IMO..we are 3 years into a new project (co-inciding with Allegri's arrival). We will probably take another 2-3 years to achieve the same.

It is roughly the same amount of time Juve took, with the difference being they could make a start hidden away in Serie B, and so the story had a progression to it. Whereas our story rather than one of progression is one of running hard while trying to stay at the same place. It's no surprise this is happening, considering the massive backroom changes involved.


But our playing style under this coach STILL PISSES ME THE FOCK OFF!!! How the hell can we play like we did against Torino!!! Berlusca would have fed his balls to the dogs in the old days!! I want more of what we saw against Napoli. I think we need to shore up that damn backline, so we can afford to play with 2 offensive-minded mids like in the ACTUAL Milan 4-3-1-2.

Imagine if we still had Silva:

Abate---Silva---Mexes---De Sciglio
----Poli----De Jong---Montolivo----
-------------Kaka--------------
---Balotelli---------SeS-----------

Hands off pirate! You gave me a heart attack of sadness! Silva! And the day is still young. Thanks for ruining my day at 10:56 AM. Why in blue blazes did you have to bring Silva into the discussion?! Imagine if we still had Silva indeed. It would be an airtight defense as any!

Abate would be the weakest link here, and that's saying something.

2006 financials Balance sheet Pg. 24 & 25 - Income statement pg. 26 & 27

2007 financials Balance sheet pg. 25 & 26 - Income statement pg. 27 & 28

2008 financials Balance sheet pg. 29 & 30 - Income statement 31 & 32

2009 financials Balance sheet pg. 29 & 30 - Income statement pg. 31 & 32

2010 financials Balance sheet pg. 28 & 29 - Income statement pg. 30 & 31

2011 financials Balance sheet pg. 24 & 25 - Income statement pg. 26 & 27

2012 financials Balance sheet pg. 23 & 24 - Income statement pg. 25 & 26


These are the club's official audited financials (ie no assumptions).


PS Danny, Milan are struggling financially. I have done extensive research on this in several threads. I can not find the time to do the same, however I have provided the pages in which you can do your own.

Sorry, until you actually stop ignoring everything I say I'm just gonna do the same with you. PS I also cannot speak a damn word of Italian.

There's no point debating with you if you just ignore 90% of my post.

PS Jack I can't reply to you fully as I'd have to address every point you make, and I'd be here for 4 years.

However, one thing I will say is everyone seems to be ignoring the evidence I'm posting. How can Forbes have us at 27th and BF at 9th if we're as absolutely stricken as you lot are making out?

Deloitte have us at 7th last year ffs.

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/indu...a56f00aRCRD.htm

Revenue at 250M Euros.

And that's in sodding English!

Are you all telling me these lists are lies?

EDIT:

http://acmilanfinance.com/financial-statements/134-2/

This site has us as breaking even, just about. In terms of operating levels most clubs do this. It's only the really well run ones like Arsenal who make big profit. And since signing Ozil they've suffered a financial dip. That's what happens when you buy players.

The only 4 clubs in the world who genuinely profit at the moment are Utd, Madrid, Bayern and Barca.

Barca make a profit? I'm really surprised at that.

@Danny .. Found it ... Below is a snapshot of those financials i provided you with



PS I am not ignoring your posts, just cementing a certain notion in that we could not afford that world class team you were referring to in your opening post. It is not a matter of my opinion or yours, its simply the reality of the facts.

PS2 what good is 250MM if you end up with 60MM loss that needs to be covered? While Madrid are able to pay 90MM for CR, Berlusconi has to pump in 60MM just to balance the books before adding a transfer kitty.

PS3 the squad we have now, that is the quality we can afford, the Muntaris and Niangs of the football world

Because it looks at worth of assets and myriad other things when judging worth of a club.

We've brought up the issue of wages vs. revenues earlier as well when we explained how nearly 80% of Milan's revenues were just spent paying wages. And we want it to be closer to 50% like it is for almost all the well run clubs except we're not there yet.

Plus Milanello training ground for example is a great piece of property, something Berlusca dug a lot of money into in the initial days. But it's an immovable asset and it's land value doesn't amount to operating income. If anything it is an asset that requires investment in terms of maintenance etc.

Finally if you want a more descriptive report in plain, non-financial English, I imagine this would help. <-Click->

It basically mentions how, as of the time when we had both Zlatan and Silva and the senators in the team, we were paying out 88% of our total revenue as wages.

A more recent but a teeny bit more technical is this link.

It contains details I think post the leaving of the senators.

-----------

And since I don't want to be attacked as a blind optimist, butt kisser etc.. let me make my stand clear.

- I understand that the club focus is on financials and commercials first, playing staff a very distant second.
- I understand and support this initiative and that it will take time. I imagined 5 years of which we are 3 years in.
- I do not support the playing style of our current coach, and I would like a more positive, technical style. In other words, if we are going to 'only' target CL places, I would rather we played like the Roma under Spalletti than the Milan under Allegri. Not sure if I'm making sense or if Roma under the bald one is ancient history to people.

I think we went wrong in two main places:

- I don't understand what credentials Allegri had to oversee a transition of this magnitude. But I cannot say what a stupid move, since I wanted him in when his name was brought up. As far as I see, he has brought nothing revolutionary to our game. Nothing tactically innovative. This team will never be remembered. But this is a hindsight observation. I too romantically imagined a young, hungry coach starting a new era at Milan.

- The old financially draining Milan had one root cause: Rather than our superstars; it was our second string and our veterans while adequate to good were nowhere near earning the 4 million or more paychecks they cashed every year. So we let quite a few go to ease the wages since this was bleeding money. This has now flipped all the way about. We now have second stringers around the 2 million mark on average, but their quality is so woeful, that when faced with an injury crisis we are guaranteed a steep drop in the league table. So we have gained money, but sacrificed too much in player quality.

What we have done right:

- Our commercial revenues have been on the rise. I'm referring to non-broadcast income. And this is a welcome sign. With matchday income almost half of what top clubs make we need all the new earning we can get.

- We have to admit there is a much larger youth focus in our club than before. In fact amongst the top Italian sides, I'm sure it is Milan who has the most youth-centric focus. The other teams have youngsters who they purchased, but very few homegrown talent. I think this vindicates the background work that had been done which started with the appointment of Galli as overseer.

What changes would I like?

- Gracefully release Allegri into the wild. I'd love a Wenger or a Hiddink or a Capello to come in, but then it requires a very clear definition of the project and one has to sell the project to the coach. Wenger for instance should be told, his job is to create a foundation again for Milan. That it's okay to finish in the CL places, if he can show a constant improvement. IN return, the club promises not to pressure for trophies, and not sell top players for money.

- When buying players, build from the back. The back line is horrible. Mexes is a 7 on 10 defender at average..and Zapata on his best day probably reaches that level. We're still horrible in the air and as long as we are, like Billy Costacurta so astutely observed, we shall suffer.

- Finally decide for once and for all, what is the goddamn Milan playing philosophy? 4-4-2/4-5-1 (Sacchi/Capello)? 4-3-1-2/X-Mas (Carletto)? It's really not the formation. It's the philosophy. Are we a team that builds from the back, passes through the middle, uses a target man. Basic things. After that, find the coach, let him choose the formation and let's play it.

- Financially and commercially I'm no expert. I don't look into that zone when playing Fifa Manager even. I'd probably look into buying Kagawa as well, and with Honda, look into creating inroads into Japan. Meanwhile these would be parallel to how we made our twin purchases of Boban and Savicevic. But then I'm guessing it's already late and the Japan boat has sailed. Besides Japanese players might not go down well in the China market, so not sure.

..Yeah that's about it.

About 50M last year.

PS again, Jackie Boy you've just given too much to reply to

One point I would make is no one ever counted Milanello in revenue? How can an asset be included in turnover? It's an operating cost, just like Murray Park is to Rangers.

R7: I know! Didn't I say in my OP it would be decades before the true Milan returns? Europe has shifted from the old guard of Italy, Holland and France to Germany, England (ish) and Madrid aside, Spain.

The old Ajax, Marseille, PSV, Milan, Feyenood, Juve, Inter, Liverpool, and Monaco are now yesterday's clubs and it's Bayern, Man Utd, City, Chelsea, Dortmund, PSG, Russian and Eastern Bloc clubs which are the epicentre of European football.

Oh no no. Sorry if I wasn't clear. So an asset would also add to your total worth, without actually providing you revenue. But it's a huge bargain chip in terms of credit lines.

So your total worth might be a million dollars, but perhaps 900k is from the house and the field your granduncle left you in an inheritance. Your actual money might be 100k.

This is for e.g. how the Glazers puchased Man United. By taking a loan mortgaging the value of their yet-to-be-owned asset.

Answers in bold.

PROJECT MILANITALIA WHERE WE SIGN MEDIOCRE ITALIAN FORWARDS AT HIGH WAGES!

GILA AND QUAGS PLZ.

Yeah, stop it with these 'project' assertions. THERE IS NO FUCKING PROJECT!

This

Ok. Sure.

And what phase of the project was signing Matri a part of Jack? Please explain

great topic here

the summary of the milan class problem is management

Galliani
*its his genius idea to keep allegri as coach
*giving in to allegri's wish to sign matri and pay him stupendous wages, money that would have been better spent on keeping paloschi&petagna on our books
*his last good idea was to sign ibrahimovic
*the horror of each transfer window---selling t.silva&zlatan for ony 65m---the stupid purchases, traore, zaccardo(earning wages and playing just 2games since january)----passing on the good signings-ljajic,eriksen to mention a few
*if we cut down on the impulse signings and stupid wages perhaps our yearly losses won't be so high

Allegri
*this guy is just a bull, i don't understand how we announce at the start of the season that "hey serie-a and ecl opponents we're playing 4-3-1-2 this year"

*i thought coaching also involves changing the game plan as dictated by factors such as the opponent you're playing on the day, the squad you have available on the game day considering suspensions and injuries

i actually hope we go on some 4 or 5 game losing streak to rid ourselves of allegri, then maybe next year Galliani won't calls this many lousy shots, we're down and out this year

The phase where Pazzini is injured, you need someone of a proven similar calibre with CL experience, at the same time you're in a bit of a squeeze coz you need to make up the numbers vis-a-vis homegrown players.

It was a last minute desperation purchase and wouldn't have happened if Pazzo were fine.

Petagna I'm sure is what everyone thinks was the answer. Yes, just like Merkel was the answer before that, and Gourcuff before him.

Petagna is probably better off where he is, getting excellent exposure and regular playing time, in a non-pressured environment. Better for a youngster to figure shite out that like, than be pushed into a deep end having to lead a Milan frontline against the likes of Barca and co. regularly. Besides smaller club fans tend to love their players when they perform and not jeer as much if you can prove you're a trier. It's not the same for big clubs. Think of Niang.

You were 18 once. Were you an automaton solely focused on whatever career you wanted and have massive pressure thrown at you, or would you have liked to take things a bit more relaxed, with proper guidance and grow into your profession.

Yeah players aren't the answer until they're the answer. Young players get overrated.

There were simply other choices out there. NAMELY our own player (Paloschi). The biggest issue with Matri isn't a footballing one, it's the fact that it was a financial nightmare not to mentioned funding Juve's move for Tevez.

If there was a project, we would have simply brought back our own youth player for a fourth of what Matri will cost us in the long run. Had there been an actual plan in place they would have moved to bring in cover for Pazzo earlier since they knew he'd be missing a major part of the season.

I'm half convinced by this 'project' theory and half utterly dubious.

IMO last summer Silvio and Uncle Ad decided our outlay on wages was quite simply too much. Milan were getting a well-earned reputation as an old-folks' home with so many players over 30 on wages which were astronomical.

We could kill 2 birds with one stone by quite simply getting rid of as many as possible if not all, massively slashing the wage bill while bringing in more economically viable alternatives and reducing the age of the team.

Gone were the likes of Jankulovski, and in was Constant.

This was to be a new spell at Milan where we wouldn't expect to be challenging for every tournament we were in, where the wage outlay was much less and where we would no longer make regular heavyweight signings like Pirlo, Gilardino, Shevchenko, Pato, Kaka et al.

However, I don't believe strictly that we formulated a 'project'. I believe that's a spin doctoring way of justifying this new Milan, which has from being an excuse become the only option we now have.

The lack of ambition when Ancelotti left in bringing in Leonardo as an easy option replacement summed up, for me, the club's decision to no longer be the Milan our supporters expect and to instead go through a period of thrifty, borderline frugal fiscal policy which would one day lead us either to simply become Liverpool (massive club clinging onto its history which it won't emulate for a long time if ever) or to re-emerge Arsenal style with a marquee signing or two.

Arsenal have gone 8 years without any silverware, following a period where they were not only a CL finalist but were endowed with a completely world class team like Viera, Adams, Keown, Henry, Wright etc. They now hope Ozil plus their current consistency (bar that opening day loss) can see them push for the title.

We will either go the Liverpool route or the Arsenal one.

Liverpool have spent more than Arsenal in the last couple of years as far as I know. Could be wrong.

Come on! For a while he was the world's best LB!

Indubitably! Loved his game when he was here, was always a solid option, particularly in attack.

I can't agree there.

Who was better back in the day? The only rival in that position was Roberto Carlos and he was technically slightly before Jankulovski.

Ashley Cole and nobody else was even close to being in his league. I expect you to disagree, but that's my opinion on the matter.

Janku played as a LB for a very limited amount of time (3 seasons I think), he was never really particularly great at it but at the time the FB areas were our most problematic after losing guys like Cafu and Serginho and we spent years trying to replace them. Janku was always a stop gap solution.

He wasn't particularly good defensively, was decent offensively, but chipped in with spectacular goals at times which made him look better than he truly was

I have to say Cole and Evra were a lot better than him at the time. Especially Cole who's always been a great LB, even now, he's still one of the best ones around considering the shortage of talent in that area

I do, but I'd say the Ashley Cole of the past 3-5 years is a much better player than the one you say was better than Janku - I'd say the one he's been since WC 2010 (he was a titan during Chelsea's CL winning season) is better than Janku at his best (but before then for me Marek had the edge).



Can't agree a guy who made around 120 appearances in 6 seasons was a stop-gap. I also have no idea why you're referring to Cafu when he was, as you know, a RB. He's completely separate to this debate. In terms of LB Janku and Serge were basically the 2 players we used - Janku was first choice after a slow first season and Serge appeared less and less.



At the time Cole flattered to deceive - he has gotten so much better in the past 3-5 years and is now debatably the best in his position that England have produced. But he didn't use to be and was widely regarded as over-rated by many.

Evra is a fair shout, but again, his era has followed Marek's.

When Jankulovksi was at his peak around 2007 no one, for me anyway, could touch him. He won the CL with us and then if I'm not mistaken the super cup with a brilliant goal.

I should also point both you and el-Kurto in the direction of my comment which attests 'for a while'. And for me that was about a season and a half. 2007-2008 ish.

However, I will bow out, respectfully, having said my piece, and will leave it at that.