QUOTE (han2503 @ May 9 2012, 01:57 AM) 
Juve will most likely only splash on a striker anyway
And what a splash it will probably be.
30m to even 40m on Cavani, and they'll have their own Ibra.
Full Version: Where next for Milan?
And what a splash it will probably be.
30m to even 40m on Cavani, and they'll have their own Ibra.
QUOTE (acid911 @ May 8 2012, 09:03 PM)
And what a splash it will probably be. 30m to even 40m on Cavani, and they'll have their own Ibra.
30m to even 40m on Cavani, and they'll have their own Ibra.Cavani is great, but certainly not effective as Ibra is. Ibra can turn a game in a second, and that's how we usually win even when we're absolutely sh!t. Cavani needs everything around him to work
And anyway, I can't see him being sold, especially not to another Serie A team. If City make a big enough offer than that's where he'd most likely go. De Laurentis won't settle for a fee like that
I say it's either Higuain or someone along those lines. He's a doable option for them, not too costly and Real would be willing to part with him at the right offer imo
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 9 2012, 02:14 AM)
Cavani is great, but certainly not effective as Ibra is. Ibra can turn a game in a second, and that's how we usually win even when we're absolutely sh!t. Cavani needs everything around him to work
And you never know, it could.
The rope in a couple of good players, along with what they have, and add in Cavani, and they've got a winning combination. And besides, Ibra is getting old, the man himself knows it. Another two years, and he'll start feeling the heat. Cavani, on the other hand, is a bomb right now.2nd highest goal scorer in the league has to count for something. But let's see, he may yet go EPL.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 8 2012, 10:57 PM)
Juve will most likely only splash on a striker anyway
Not so sure about that. They'll probably sign a quality LB as well.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 8 2012, 09:14 PM)
Why because I categorically and unequivocally disagree with the ridiculous notion that Juve have the better squad than ours?
The fact you call it 'ridiculous' highlights how stubborn you are. It's a completely subjective viewpoint, but you're calling it ridiculous, as if your own opinion is the only one which counts.
QUOTE
The fact that we ran them to the second to final day while playing the backups of the backups at times says it all. Had Juve had to deal with such a situation they'd have ended up 7th for the third consecutive season.
Our starting 11, our rotation players, our depth in general is just better than theirs. Allegri made a million mistakes this season, and he's been by far one of the most infuriating aspects of the entire season, probably just slightly behind the relentless injuries, but I'm confident in saying that had he had the full team at his disposal throughout this entire season as Conte did, we'd have won the title.
Yes he still wouldn't have managed to comprise the cohesive unit that Conte did, but than again, with the quality at his disposal he wouldn't have needed to, just like last season.
I'm bringing up the fact that most of our games have been won due to individualistic brilliance, but had we won the title do you really think any one of us, especially me would care? F@ck no!! I'd forget the fact that he's been playing a brainless idiot for nearly 3 months straight, I'd forget the fact that Allegri simply refuses to utilise creative players and I'd forget how tactically rigid he is that he simply cannot seem to come up with a different system than the one he has in place. Had we been the team celebrating none of that would really matter. But we're not celebrating, we're left rueing the fact that we simply handed over this Scudetto to at disgusting team like Juve, who will most likely sew on a third star even if 2 of those titles were bought. So now that we've lost this title we simply have to analyse what went wrong. And the injuries certainly were a big factor, a massive factor in fact. But you can't ignore Allegri's role in this failure either.
I only don't budge when I know that viewpoint is correct. There is no way in hell that you can convince me that on paper, Juve have a better 11 and squad than us. Because that is just not true. And I stand by the statement that we threw away this Scudetto
Our starting 11, our rotation players, our depth in general is just better than theirs. Allegri made a million mistakes this season, and he's been by far one of the most infuriating aspects of the entire season, probably just slightly behind the relentless injuries, but I'm confident in saying that had he had the full team at his disposal throughout this entire season as Conte did, we'd have won the title.
Yes he still wouldn't have managed to comprise the cohesive unit that Conte did, but than again, with the quality at his disposal he wouldn't have needed to, just like last season.
I'm bringing up the fact that most of our games have been won due to individualistic brilliance, but had we won the title do you really think any one of us, especially me would care? F@ck no!! I'd forget the fact that he's been playing a brainless idiot for nearly 3 months straight, I'd forget the fact that Allegri simply refuses to utilise creative players and I'd forget how tactically rigid he is that he simply cannot seem to come up with a different system than the one he has in place. Had we been the team celebrating none of that would really matter. But we're not celebrating, we're left rueing the fact that we simply handed over this Scudetto to at disgusting team like Juve, who will most likely sew on a third star even if 2 of those titles were bought. So now that we've lost this title we simply have to analyse what went wrong. And the injuries certainly were a big factor, a massive factor in fact. But you can't ignore Allegri's role in this failure either.
I only don't budge when I know that viewpoint is correct. There is no way in hell that you can convince me that on paper, Juve have a better 11 and squad than us. Because that is just not true. And I stand by the statement that we threw away this Scudetto
Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.
Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.
You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.
You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 9 2012, 02:38 AM)
The fact you call it 'ridiculous' highlights how stubborn you are. It's a completely subjective viewpoint, but you're calling it ridiculous, as if your own opinion is the only one which counts.
Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.
Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.
You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.
You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.
Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.
Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.
You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.
You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.
Agreed, we didn't salvage anything when we played against Juve and inter got the better of us despite us being reigning champions (at the time).
However, I do sympathize with the Juve faithful as they have been through sh1t really and this title was deserved and a long-time coming for them.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 9 2012, 12:38 AM)
The fact you call it 'ridiculous' highlights how stubborn you are. It's a completely subjective viewpoint, but you're calling it ridiculous, as if your own opinion is the only one which counts.
Why does that make me stubborn? It's my oppinion.
I think you're being stubborn by not accepting that
We debate here, what I say does not mean that I'm trying to change your mind on the issue, I just voice my oppinion while you disagree and voice yours. And once again, I will never agree that Juve have the better squad than us, certainly not when you look at the team sheet like that on paper. In a real life scenario when half of our team are injured with most of those being first 11 players than it's another thing altogether. But when you put the 2 teams like that next to each other than I can never agree with you or kurt that Juve have the better team
QUOTE (Danny @ May 9 2012, 12:38 AM)
Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.
Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.
You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.
You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.
Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.
You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.
You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.
I never said anything about the big teams. I agree that our record against those teams is appaling and had we even won one or 2 of those games, even against Napoli or Lazio than this would be a different stroy, but that's not the case. We have been poor this season, Allegri imo, compared to last season has been very poor, while the injuries have to be taken into account as well.
But, had we had a full squad to choose from throughout the season than I think that at least some of those results would have gone our way. Certainly the games against Lazio, Napoli and Juve would have gone differently. You might see this as a contradiction seeing as I said that Allegri has been a huge problem for us, but even with his stubborn streak and refusal to incorporate a moredynamic system, with the players he should have had without the injuries, we'd most likely be celebrating the title right now. The injuries crippled us, and some of Allegri's decisions compounded that imo. That's why I feel that this failure is 50/50 in terms of blame, half has to rest on Allegri's shoulders, the other has to be the injuries.
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 9 2012, 12:00 PM)
However, I do sympathize with the Juve faithful as they have been through well-deserved sh1t really and this title was deserved and a long-time coming for them.
Fixed.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 9 2012, 12:08 PM)
That's why I feel that this failure is 50/50 in terms of blame, half has to rest on Allegri's shoulders, the other has to be the injuries.
It would be great if it were this simple, really.
Some part of the blame (10 percent each, at least) has to go to the players for playing like they did not gave a hoot, and for the management for keeping those players that did not gave a hoot. 50/50 sounds awfully good when you say it, but there is almost always more to the story.Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals.
Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.You watch tapes of previous years, and you could see it in the eyes of our players. They wanted to win! Not this lot. Many a times I have got this impression that some of our players lacked that extra bit. Maybe because it was that the real champions were injured throughout the season, or the fact that a lot of the team had just won the league last year. But seeing Juventus, and seeing Milan, it was plain evident who wanted it more.
So my point is, even if it was 40% Allegri, and 40% injuries, the remaining 20% was split into two reasons as well.
QUOTE (acid911 @ May 9 2012, 10:10 AM)
Fixed.
It would be great if it were this simple, really. Some part of the blame (10 percent each, at least) has to go to the players for playing like they did not gave a hoot, and for the management for keeping those players that did not gave a hoot. 50/50 sounds awfully good when you say it, but there is almost always more to the story.
Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals. Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.
You watch tapes of previous years, and you could see it in the eyes of our players. They wanted to win! Not this lot. Many a times I have got this impression that some of our players lacked that extra bit. Maybe because it was that the real champions were injured throughout the season, or the fact that a lot of the team had just won the league last year. But seeing Juventus, and seeing Milan, it was plain evident who wanted it more.
So my point is, even if it was 40% Allegri, and 40% injuries, the remaining 20% was split into two reasons as well.
It would be great if it were this simple, really.
Some part of the blame (10 percent each, at least) has to go to the players for playing like they did not gave a hoot, and for the management for keeping those players that did not gave a hoot. 50/50 sounds awfully good when you say it, but there is almost always more to the story.Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals.
Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.You watch tapes of previous years, and you could see it in the eyes of our players. They wanted to win! Not this lot. Many a times I have got this impression that some of our players lacked that extra bit. Maybe because it was that the real champions were injured throughout the season, or the fact that a lot of the team had just won the league last year. But seeing Juventus, and seeing Milan, it was plain evident who wanted it more.
So my point is, even if it was 40% Allegri, and 40% injuries, the remaining 20% was split into two reasons as well.
Who's job is it to motivate the players and make sure that the ones stepping on the pitch are the ones who should be playing not because of their name but because of what they can actually do once they go out there?
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 9 2012, 06:24 PM)
Who's job is it to motivate the players and make sure that the ones stepping on the pitch are the ones who should be playing not because of their name but because of what they can actually do once they go out there?
Yeah, I know, but it a certain someone isn't doing his job right, it doesn't absolve the other players.
Some have been playing for us for decades, or close to it, others for 3, 5 or even more years. And the lethargy on display during some of the matches that I watched sure did put me to sleep. Last year was much better in this regard.Allegri definitely is not the type of character who would excite enthusiasm in players. He is much more laid back.
QUOTE (acid911 @ May 9 2012, 11:10 AM)
Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals. Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.
Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.That's the coach's fault, if you ask me. If the players act like unmotivated twats, it's because a certain someone failed to do his job properly.
QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 9 2012, 07:35 PM)
That's the coach's fault, if you ask me. If the players act like unmotivated twats, it's because a certain someone failed to do his job properly.
Understandably, and like I said Allegri shares the major blame for this.
This is Milan, not Cagliari, all our players should be displaying passion, ambition, and desire to win in all 38 matches. A lot of other clubs do that. But how we unravel is pretty sad, case in point the league matches after the Barcelona away quarterfinal.That was a time when a coach is supposed to step up, instead that was exactly the time Allegri stepped down!
Stepped down, indeed. I can't understand people defending Allegri after the last few shockers he pulled out. Just think of the last derby. Where the hell was Emanuelson - or Zambrotta, why was Mexes benched?
I think players should also be able to motivate themselves, you know, they are being paid millions a year also. It would also help if individual mistakes by first XI players are not made like Abate and Nesta this weekend. Everyone here wanted them playing and they fucked up.
Exactly, it's a two-way street. Like Fillipo said, Allegri did not make things any easy for himself these past two months due to his stupid or stubborn attitude. And likewise, as Kurt said, the players can't be absolved of this. If I am getting even 1m a year (and that too, pathetically, tax-free), I should be earning that amount on the pitch.
I see players like ours with their heads down in the later end of the season, and it's just a saddening sight.
Like Fillipo said, Allegri did not make things any easy for himself these past two months due to his stupid or stubborn attitude. And likewise, as Kurt said, the players can't be absolved of this. If I am getting even 1m a year (and that too, pathetically, tax-free), I should be earning that amount on the pitch.I see players like ours with their heads down in the later end of the season, and it's just a saddening sight.
I do think his team selection for this game was unacceptable and when players he shouldn't be playing (Bonera) make mistakes, he deserves the blame. But half assed performances from first XI players, that's not on the coach.
I guess my thread title has been partially answered.
Sweeping changes this summer - at least 7 players on their way out, possibly more.
Massive investment required in new players.
At least 2 marquee players should be bought, along with 5 top class players.
This squad, as well as I feel it overall did this season, needs freshening up big time. It should have happened last summer but disappointingly an opportunity was missed.
With Berlu having some free time now, he can dedicate himself to investing in this team. A couple of £30M+ players and maybe 4 or 5 £10-15M players.
Pie in the sky maybe but we need a Man City style influx of top class players. We don't have their money, but we do need fresh and good quality blood pronto.
Sweeping changes this summer - at least 7 players on their way out, possibly more.
Massive investment required in new players.
At least 2 marquee players should be bought, along with 5 top class players.
This squad, as well as I feel it overall did this season, needs freshening up big time. It should have happened last summer but disappointingly an opportunity was missed.
With Berlu having some free time now, he can dedicate himself to investing in this team. A couple of £30M+ players and maybe 4 or 5 £10-15M players.
Pie in the sky maybe but we need a Man City style influx of top class players. We don't have their money, but we do need fresh and good quality blood pronto.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 12 2012, 11:22 AM)
I guess my thread title has been partially answered.
Sweeping changes this summer - at least 7 players on their way out, possibly more.
Massive investment required in new players.
At least 2 marquee players should be bought, along with 5 top class players.
This squad, as well as I feel it overall did this season, needs freshening up big time. It should have happened last summer but disappointingly an opportunity was missed.
With Berlu having some free time now, he can dedicate himself to investing in this team. A couple of £30M+ players and maybe 4 or 5 £10-15M players.
Pie in the sky maybe but we need a Man City style influx of top class players. We don't have their money, but we do need fresh and good quality blood pronto.
Sweeping changes this summer - at least 7 players on their way out, possibly more.
Massive investment required in new players.
At least 2 marquee players should be bought, along with 5 top class players.
This squad, as well as I feel it overall did this season, needs freshening up big time. It should have happened last summer but disappointingly an opportunity was missed.
With Berlu having some free time now, he can dedicate himself to investing in this team. A couple of £30M+ players and maybe 4 or 5 £10-15M players.
Pie in the sky maybe but we need a Man City style influx of top class players. We don't have their money, but we do need fresh and good quality blood pronto.
Only the senior players going request was answered. Now it's up to the management to make the moves that this club has been craving for years now. We've been talking about letting some of the senior players go since the Carlo days. Imo this exodus should have been done over a few years, and not with a massive amount of player leaving all at one go. Because it will be a b!tch trying to replace them.
Also, if the medical department is not carefully scrutinised and if there aren't changes made than all the complaining about a big squad should be put to rest. Because our injury problems require the massive squad that we have. If we hadn't had the squad size that we did this season, Allegri wouldn't have been able to field 11 players at one point in the season.
QUOTE
this exodus should have been done over a few years, and not with a massive amount of player leaving all at one go.
Exactly. poor management IMO. unless B&G prove me wrong next season with a surprisingly good Milan.
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 12 2012, 12:04 PM)
Exactly. poor management IMO. unless B&G prove me wrong next season with a surprisingly good Milan.
I personally don't see that for our near future.
The management is already adapting it's usual market strategy. Getting in someone like Traore, to god forbid, replace a player like VB is the usual BS we have to go through, remember Oliveira? Remember the absolute zero investment after selling Kaka?
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