[Danny]

Difficult to know where to start - it's been a crushingly disappointing 24 hours. On this forum there are huge splits in terms of where the blame lies. If indeed there is any real blame.

Last summer of 2011 we had the real potential, having won the league and secured entry to the CL, to enhance the squad with real quality. Invest in the team and make us elite again. We got Aquilani, Sharrawy, Mexes, Nocerino and Muntari.

None of these are achingly poor players, but they were hardly the marquee quality we needed - and despite an honourable showing against Barca, we didn't win the CL and in the league we've been extremely inconsistent.

It's very difficult to know where to start - but the one critical change we need is squad investment. We do have very good players, wonderful players, but not enough of them. When you look at the top clubs they have at least 20 top top players - City, United, Barca, Real, Bayern - big world class squads designed to cope with injuries, suspensions, and a genuine challenge for the top honours.

We don't have that. We do have the CL again next season, and the default money which comes from that, but Silvio, with a bit of time on his hands these days, really does have to make some big signings. The fans need a boost, and frankly many millions require spending.

As for Allegri - as long as I have been a Milan fan fellow Rossoneri have never agreed on the manager - from Carlo, to Leo, to Allegri - all have been 'wrong' in the eyes of the fans no matter what they won.

Problem is a manager is only one man - 100% of fans are never going to agree with you, and even winning a league might not be enough to prove your doubters wrong.

So I don't know where I stand on the boss.

But I do know this squad needs reinforcement of the highest quality - guys who will cost a fortune but be definite starters and take us up a level.

[kurtsimonw]

When Max actually gets investment and "fails" then I'll join others in saying he has to go. But as things stand he, like Leo, hasn't exactly been given players that have league title quality in them. Juventus will bring in a goal-scorer in the summer and they'll basically have no weak link, we need to sure we don't either.

[han2503]

When Max actually gets investment and "fails" then I'll join others in saying he has to go. But as things stand he, like Leo, hasn't exactly been given players that have league title quality in them. Juventus will bring in a goal-scorer in the summer and they'll basically have no weak link, we need to sure we don't either.

Having the best squad in the league should be enough to at least win that. Juve have 15 draws FFS!! Had we won at least 1 or 2 of our head-to-head games against the top sides in the league than we would have won this title. That's the main difference here. Allegri failed in all the big encounters, and those cannot all be blamed on injuries

[kurtsimonw]

Having the best squad in the league should be enough to at least win that.

As Conte proved.

Do you think Ancelotti should've been sacked 4/5 years before he was then?

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: May 7 2012, 12:22 PM

[Zed.D]

First of all we must look into the injury problems... we can't afford to lose our key players for such lengthy spells and expect to win the league and do well in CL as well. it's just not doable.

[han2503]

As Conte proved.

Do you think Ancelotti should've been sacked 4/5 years before he was then?

Lol, Juve have the best squad in the league? Really? Allegri has by far the best squad, the best individuals and the most experianced set of players in the league. And yet he failed big time. What Conte did is turn those players who might not all be great into a real group instead of what we had, a bunch of individuals wearing the same shirt. Because that is what this team has been turned into under Allegri. Juve played the entire season as a cohesive unit which made up for a lot of deficiancies that they had in quality. While Allegri couldn't make the quality at his disposal count. Instead he showed a stubborn streak and an unwillingness to compromise throughout

I tell you what Juve have better than us, and it's certainly not the squad, but the man in charge of that squad.

2 CL titles buy a person time. A league title won because Silvio brought in Ibra at the beginning of the season can only go so far (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

2 CL titles buy a person time. A league title won because Silvio brought in Ibra at the beginning of the season can only go so far (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Pretty sure the 2nd CL title wasn't until 2007 right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Why wasn't he sacked before that season?

And yes, Juve had the best squad in the league, by some considerable distance. Then again, I'm talking to a person who thinks Mexes is World class and all Juve's defenders are mediocre.

[han2503]

Pretty sure the 2nd CL title wasn't until 2007 right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Why wasn't he sacked before that season?

And yes, Juve had the best squad in the league, by some considerable distance. Then again, I'm talking to a person who thinks Mexes is World class and all Juve's defenders are mediocre.

When have I EVER said that Mexes is World Class? I dare you to find a quote of me saying exactly that! Saying that he's by far the better option and should have been picked ahead of Yepes is not saying he's WC, it's simple logic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And lol @ you saying Juve have by far the better squad!! Trying to make Allegri look like the martyr with the sh!tty squad and Juve Barca 2.0 that we just could not deal with. How funny. I'm laughing my @ss off!

Juve's only really great defender is Chiellini. Barzagli playing out of his skin couldn't have been predicted since he's been... uh... I don't know... cr@p his entire footballing carreer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Comapre that to having Nesta, Silva and Mexes to choose from. Yep, poor, poor Allegri, just couldn't keep up with Juve... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

1 title, 1 Coppa, 1 Italian Super Cup, 1 CL, 1 European Super Cup before that CL. So I'd say that he bought some good time for himself with that. In his second season he lead us to the CL and Coppa. Not too shabby. Allegri led us to a weak Serie A title. You want to talk about a really great squad. Juve 04/05, 05/06 was one of the best around. Now that was a great squad not this Juve. Who had Chiellini, a bunch of sterile strikers and a good midfield. How shocking that we were able to keep up with them until yesterday. Allegri is a genius, I should consider this second place finish as good as the title (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Danny]

I kinda hoped we could discuss this without squabbling among ourselves.

I know we're not going to all agree on the way forward but let's try to put yesterday behind us and think rationally about the way we need to progress.

Slagging each other off is not going to help much.

[han2503]

I kinda hoped we could discuss this without squabbling among ourselves.

I know we're not going to all agree on the way forward but let's try to put yesterday behind us and think rationally about the way we need to progress.

Slagging each other off is not going to help much.

I find kurt as a good outlet to release all this Allegri frustration I have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The way forward for me is simple.

Remove Allegri from his post, get someone with some fresh ideas in who's willing to compromise and maybe even introduce a new system rather than this wholly outdated 4-3-1-2 (which we do not even have the players for to employ)

Renew with Nesta and VB (if he wants to), let all the others go

Bring in some new quality players to address the problems that we do truely have instead of buying another unneeded striker

Attempt to fix the mess we have on our hands with the medical team. Going into next season anticipating another injury nightmare is certainly not the way to go. Although how many of those injuries can be attributed to Allegri's training methods and how many can be attributed to the medical staff is yet to be seen

[kurtsimonw]

When have I EVER said that Mexes is World Class?

My bad, the post I had in mind was by Jack, not you.

So Ancelotti won 5 trophies in 5 years, Max has won 2 in 2 years. What's the problem?

As for the Juve squad Carlo faced, nah, it had a very good spine, but the rest of the starters + bench were hardly World class.

[han2503]

My bad, the post I had in mind was by Jack, not you.

So Ancelotti won 5 trophies in 5 years, Max has won 2 in 2 years. What's the problem?

As for the Juve squad Carlo faced, nah, it had a very good spine, but the rest of the starters + bench were hardly World class.

So you're saying that this Juve team is great and we just couldn't keep up with them but Fabio's Juve was just... Fine.

Let me remind you. Buffon, Canna, Thuram, Zambro, Viera, Emerson, Camo, Nedved, Trez, Ibra, DP.

Yep, that's a sh!tty first 11 if I ever saw one...

And the backups, well it's not like this Juve have any decent players past the first 11, all of them are mostly fillers. Mid-level quality players. The 2 teams simply cannot be compared. That Juve team was World Class, this one is decent but they have a great midfield, thanks in part (1/3), to us. How great and noble of us.

[kurtsimonw]

So you're saying that this Juve team is great and we just couldn't keep up with them but Fabio's Juve was just... Fine.

No. I'm saying this Juve squad is better than this Milan squad, especially with the injuries we had.

That Milan squad was better than that Juve squad.

That doesn't mean this Juve squad was better than that Juve squad. I didn't say that. It's all relative.

[Danny]

I find kurt as a good outlet to release all this Allegri frustration I have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The way forward for me is simple.

Remove Allegri from his post, get someone with some fresh ideas in who's willing to compromise and maybe even introduce a new system rather than this wholly outdated 4-3-1-2 (which we do not even have the players for to employ)

The Xmas tree isn't outdated, but I do agree we probably don't have a proper trequartista to utilise it properly.

Renew with Nesta and VB (if he wants to), let all the others go

Get rid of the entire squad bar VB and Sandro!?

Bring in some new quality players to address the problems that we do truely have instead of buying another unneeded striker

I agree we need more top class players.

Attempt to fix the mess we have on our hands with the medical team. Going into next season anticipating another injury nightmare is certainly not the way to go. Although how many of those injuries can be attributed to Allegri's training methods and how many can be attributed to the medical staff is yet to be seen

Actually, I remember complaints about the medical team when Carlo was the manager. We always seem to have had this issue.

[han2503]

No. I'm saying this Juve squad is better than this Milan squad, especially with the injuries we had.

That Milan squad was better than that Juve squad.

That doesn't mean this Juve squad was better than that Juve squad. I didn't say that. It's all relative.

Sure with the injuries to half the squad (14 at one point) this Juve side is better (fully fit for the entire season with the exception to 2 or 3 games)

But in which ever way you wish to look at it, we have the far better squad. And when we had a lot of injuries our squad had the neccassary depth to cover that, no not every backup is top class but considering we were playing the backup of the backups at one point, it's not that bad.

Can you imagine the current Juve squad with the type of problems we had plus CL? They'd probably do as well as they did last season, 7th place