Agreed on Abbiati/Amelia. No reason to bench a so far good preforming goalkeeper (Abbiati). Abbiati either needs to fail himself, or Amelia needs to prove over more matches he really is better when given the chance.

So far both Leonardo and Allegri didn't seem like good choices indeed. Leonardo's first season as coach, big gamble it was anyway. Leonardo did pretty well considered that, but not well enough for Milan let's say. Allegri let me down so far. About Rijkaard: I don't think he good enough to be our coach to be honest.

NOTE: Can a moderator or helper open the Napoli - Milan thread? I cannot, but now people are talking about the match in this thread and I rather want to reply to it in the Napoli - Milan thread. Thank you!

Ah, arrogance. The answer to everything in life! Really Allegri, that's rich, oh man, very rich. In fact, any more show of arrogance from Milan, and we'd be staring at a much larger scoreline in Real Madrid's favor.


Effort is the magic word. To think of it after those two fluke goals, Real did nothing of note. Sure they had a cushion, but deep down inside me I still had hopes for a 3-2 finish. Little did I know that this team has got nothing to do with effort. Out of the midfielders, only Pirlo tried something. Or at least tried to try for something.


Well there's always the middle line: Professionalism. Any professional coach would do at Milan, someone who is dedicated to his job, and has enough experience in the bag to steer the team to it's maximum potential. I'll be the first to admit, Leo was not that man (his first coaching gig, remember?). From the look of things Allegri is fast becoming the v2 of Leonardo. Most of the time we hope (there's that word again) to get an early lead, and when we do, we hope to keep it. The team lacks the self belief, and frankly I think Allegri is not that good of a motivator as well. Never in these ten or so matches have I seen the team pumped up, the body language just drops when we are losing.

Each successive match should see improvement in a team, here I don't see any. Maybe he's giving in to player pressure and seniority shtick, maybe he is too afraid to try something new. I also think we missed Ambrosini in both our CL matches.


Quiet possibly, but at least Carlo would have known what he would be doing. He may have taken negative decisions, but at least he'd have used his brain cells to come to that conclusion. Allegri, for my money is either too overawed managing a 100 million dollar club like Milan, or is too confined in his comfort zone to see what's coming.

It's understandable that a team switches off the engine for a few minutes, different phases of a match. But a completely directionless team, from start to finish that knows not what it's doing is a serious cause for concern.


Good one, Miz. Can't doubt that statement even if I tried. The man's too darn drunk for his own good most of the time!


Well he may be able to add something special if he got the the darned ball at his feet. If we are building our attack through R80, then we need to look at quantity, not quality. Pass the ball to him as much as you can, and occasionally he will deliver a killer through ball or two. He is not the guy to go win the ball in the midfield (and that too against a hard hitting team like Real Madrid), and then make the pass to either Pato or Ibra.

For this reason along I think Seedorf was the flop of the match. He did nothing of note, other than to stick with the frigging ball every time he got it, trying to dodge players like he is 25, and slowing down our game. We should either bench them both, or play one at most of either Ronaldinho or Seedorf. In a perfect world, R80 should play the first 60 minutes, and Seedorf the remaining 30. But then again, in a perfect world both would not be playing in Milan, at least in this condition.

PS. Ronaldinho did go in with a hard tackle on CRON that probably prevented a sure-fire goal. That's special enough, LOL!

I agree. the only coach I can think of right now is (as Fillipo mentioned) Rijkaard who we should've brought in after Carlo left. has Milan is his blood and is not, well, clueless. maybe he's a bit soft but I don't think that's a bigger problem than cluelessness!


Depends. a few days before he played a great game against Chievo. last night he was unbelievably woeful. it's the same story for Seedorfs and Gattusos really. they can put in a good show against smaller sides but it's against top team that their liabilities are exposed. we can continue being good enough to finish in CL zone every season with them, but I doubt we can win anything with them anymore.



It seems people on MF can see that better than Max does. I mean, before the game we were all praying the midfield wouldn't be this...

Who bets we will start the Napoli game with the exact same midfield

1. Chelsea.
2. Chelsea has two monster finishers.
3. Agreed. Not since 2005.
4. Chelsea. Please refer to recent player interviews about Carlo.
5. Agreed.
6. I think 3rd or 4th. And knock out in this stage or the next.
7. Duh!

8. Hey man! I'm pretty good. How is you?



Rijkaard just gpt fired by Galatasaray for Pete's sake. I'd rather take MvB. At least we'll have players put in their place even if results suck major butt.

Unless of course we're going to hire Rijkaard AND Ten Cate.



You make me wear a chastity belt...you make me wear a T-shirt which says, 'I belong to Miz' and then you say this??

Of course they're gonna be disappointed. But now that we're seperated those things are in the past!

I don't think Rijkaard getting fired by Galatasaray means much tbh... but I agree about MvB. everyone keeps saying how bad a coach he is. but I think his charisma, his discipline and his will to work with young players could turn out for good in a club like Milan.

Besides, we're not in a position to say no to these guys. I can't see any world class coach wanting to coach Milan (do you?), despite our stars. our squad is far from complete. we should start building a future with coaches such as Rijkaard or MvB then turn to better options when time is right. to think that we can get anyone better than these two at this moment is nothing but wishful thinking.

He's been there two years and he's been pretty bad. I don't think the club is as bad as you think..it's one of Turkey's top clubs. He's also never been the most tactically aware coach out there either. Plus if he comes in there'll be all those old problems with R80.

MvB's pedigree as a Milanista and as a player cannot be questioned. Tactically he's suspect too.

Not necessarily. We could play Robinho on left and Boateng on the right. Robinho will be the third striker who tracks back and Boateng the box-to-box midfielder whom attacks when we're playing the ball. So, basically, more like a 4-2-2-2 line-up.



I'd really love to see that happen.

In Allegri's world that will be a 4-3-3.

Imo all of our problems last night centered around the midfield 3, before the match I said that playing Rino and Seedorf instead of Flamini and Boateng will get our midfield overrun, and that is what happened. We just couldn't keep up. The only times I saw Dinho or Pato was when they were in the center circle, and Zlatan was invisible. Imo that is because of the midfield which couldn't get the ball past the halfway line.

I'm 100% sure that had we started with those 2 instead of Seedorf and Rino the result would be totally different. The only reason we got a couple of chances was because Real weren't really bothering to play and let us have the ball.

Imo non of the players are at fault (not even Seedorf), Allegri is the one who chose the tired, slow players to start against a fast team like Rea, it's not their faults they couldn't keep up. Allegri decided to play a CL game against Real as he would play a Serie A game, where we easily boss posession even with our slow midfield. He payed for it dearly, and from his comments I still don't believe that he's learnt his lesson.

Seedorf will still be playing every match and we'l still see Flamini and Boateng on the bench. The players who actually deserve to be on the pitch for more then just their seniority and status at the club.

Had we played well and still lost because of those 2 stupid goals, I wouldn't be p!ssed as I currently am, but the fact that we played the way we did p!sses me more off then the loss

You're right han, judging from his comments it feels like he thinks it was just a bad night, when in fact things could have turned out differently had he played the right formation. We can field the same guys that played last night in most of the Serie A games, but you can't expect to outperform teams like Real Madrid and Ajax with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf-Ronaldinho. We need speed, agility and pace against these teams, and the players that can provide such characteristics are sadly benched every time.

What a joke this Allegri fella is

A very, very bad joke.

i am gonna throw a party the day Seedorf retires .

He was a great player is his days, no doubt. but you should know how to leave with your dignity intact.

Your sig pretty much says it all doesn't it?

Please Blue, make the signature smaller at least. The bare image of an ex-Interista at a Milan forum is enough disturbing.

Did anyone post this?

http://www.goal.com/en/news/2377/top-10/20...-madrid-v-milan

I just saw it now and thought some of them were hilarious. especially the LB guide by Maldini for Marcelo and its picture

Brilliant!

FINE!


its smaller now

Not small enough

NEVARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!


besides how can i make someone so fantastically worldclass that small. He is too elegant to be that small.

Thank you!

out of sheer exasperation, I couldn't bring myself to post in this match thread until now. 2-0 flattered us.

As a fan, I felt like a lame duck knowing that we weren't going to win with the team we fielded, yet incapable of doing anything but tortuously hold on to strings of hope that somehow out of nothing we would somehow magically pull a goal out of our @sses.

Then, hoping that the performance would serve as a reality check, Allegri comes out and spouts some blasphemy about how "we weren't arrogant enough". At least some acknowledgment of our tactical short comings would have gone a long way to convincing me, as a fan, to be a little more patient.

Painfully ironic how with a team full of superstars, Mourinho demands humility and hunger.

I am not being traitorous in saying this: To be honest, there were times in this match where I genuinely wanted to see Madrid truly put us to the sword, and convert 2 or 3 more of their guilt edge chances. I said it in a post in this thread b4 the match, and ill maintain it here. If there is no tactical reshuffle after this match, then getting hammered by Napoli, Juve, Madrid, and Inter is what I'll hope for. Perhaps what's needed is cold dose of reality.

In our squad, we possessed the talent to take something from this game — or at the very least turn in a respectable performance. I'll be damned if I subject myself to watching 90 minutes of us playing our cards incorrectly again...

I understand during a match it can be tough to diagnose the problem for a green manager. But if there aren't any changes after this, then I'll wonder if Allegri even watches match film after we play, and question his abilities to manage us. Watching the juxtaposition of the determined Mourinho and the apprehensive Allegri on the touchline was very revealing and almost comical. Max looked so spineless.

His arrival was supposed to be a signal of us ushering in a 'newer Milan.' If he doesn't grow a pair, stand up to the veterans, and and do to this team what's been needed for some years now, then i'll join those who are already calling for his sacking.

@ Blue: LOL. I truly appreciate the comic relief you provide around here. You may be the first to use elegance as a descriptor of Mourinho..

the defn in the dictionary of elegance should be



1- look under mourinho

He's Mourinho...not Chuck Norris.

Anyway...Mourinho's teams are always gonna be this current Milan squad's kryptonite.

Milan's plan was to spray passes around and hope to drag the Madrid team out of shape. Then play in the diagonal balls to the fast forwards.

This passing, slow-possession play is Milan's biggest strength. It's the old Carlo blueprint. Like a fencer in a sword fight. Pass around, drag the team out of shape and then attack through the gaps.

However Mourinho's team's greatest strength is in keeping their shape. So obviously it was gonna be a head on collision of strength against strength.


Next....there was an obsession in our team to keep our rigid 4-3-1-2 shape...which even if you just draw it on a paper, you can see is suspect against a 4-2-3-1. They'll just by pass our whole midfield along the flanks and they've got top notch players who can cut in one they bypass the mid-field.

The minute we conceded those two stupid goals in under 2 minutes...it was done. Our formation/personnel isn't designed to break down defences and batter opposition goals...we're more a matador than a cage fighter. We have no spare gears like Chelsea or Manchester...because we have no change of pace.

This is what Allegri said before the match. The reason I don't criticise him as MUCH is that he seems to know beforehand what the status quo is. He did say that Milan will have to be perfect and not make mistakes (because our formation and personnel don't let us do anything else)...and we did exactly that.

I think it's time to beef up the mid-field. The three man mid-field is an exercise in futility. Just look at the number of players in the box when we attack!! That's right there's Zlatan...and if you're lucky Pato just running in. Coz R80 is outside trying to make the cross.

So we can talk about having proper fullbacks but it would be pointless. There's no one in that box who he can aim at. No FB can be expected to put in a cross when there's 1 striker surrounded by 3 defenders.

My advice to Allegri....more meat in the mid-field.

By Nov 15, we'll have finished an important cycle of tough matches. We should know by then how we stand. A decision has to be taken on that day to keep or remove Allegri.

Taking in MvB might be counterproductive...but I do hope they have considered replacements for Max. I wouldn't even mind getting the Trap back for some time.

I hope you meant City, because this is the absolute worst I've seen United in oh years. They don't even have gears, the Scottish madman has driven them to the ground (unlike what their fans like to believe in). Theater of Dreams, my behind!

1. The thing is, how can we consider it a "strength" when all its gotten us is mediocrity these last couple seasons? This system worked with Kaka, because he was a midfielder/striker hybrid. You mentioned we don't have spare gears, but with Kaka we in fact DID. We were capable of playing passes around the midfield while he dropped back, until he picked the perfect moment to go forward, at which point we DID change gears.

Now that we don't have him, and therefore that extra gear, why were we still employing this system? Given what we have now, playing to our "strengths" means we field an unbalanced team?

2. Which is precisely why a top-class manager would have realized this by fielding a midfield capable of protected our back line from those wingers cutting into the heart of the defense. If it was so obvious that the formation we sent out lacked the proper personnel to succeed and was so clearly susceptible to a 4-2-3-1, then why pray tell did we still field it!? Madrid attacked us from the get go and pressed high up the pitch. They did this to compensate for the lack of protection for their back line in terms of personnel — they had only Khedira.

It's not rocket science, when a team does that, you can't do anything but employ a counter attacking style. We MUST drop back, cut down as much space as we can, protect our back line. We must make the game a closed, ugly one. When there's a good opportunity to counter — say, down a flank exposed by an advancing Marcelo — we spring forward at pace with the respective player on that side (should have been Boateng), while still avoiding overcommitment (Zambro stays back) so as to open up the game. Our strikers feed off scraps. Zlatan holds play up to bring the likes of Boa, Antonini, Dinho forward, something Zlatan is excellent at doing..and Pato reads the space accordingly.

The pace needed to transition from defense would have been provided by Antonini and Boateng, the counter attacks would have been launched by Pirlo. If Dinho wasn't effective, he should have been replaced at halftime or at the very least by the 60th minute.

Way too many of us said all of this before a ball was kicked.

3. Any manager can say "we need to be perfect". In a match against Real Madrid, perfection starts with your tactics Mr. Allegri, and you got them wrong. Understanding the "status quo" that has seen us dump out to Arsenal, Man U, and lose to Inter several times is nothing worthy of credit — those tactics were naive too! We knew if he did what he did we'd lose. Furthermore, once again his substitutions were late (a recurring trend)...

Both. This is a bad season for them...coz there's a lot of fear about the future. No money..no big transfers...Man City with a target on their back...Scholes, Giggs and vDs going and possibly all at the same time...no big up and coming star to talk about. They're in unfamiliar territory. What United are going through is the same thing as what Milan went through a couple of years ago.

That's perfect.

True, but I've just grown plain tired of that wily turd SAF and his shenanigans. Fingers crossed it's his last season or so. And what he did Carletto after inviting him to a drink/lunch was beyond pathetic. I mean I don't like Carlo one bit (respect what he did and win with us, can't take that away from him), but that was just too low.

Get you round chewing-gum behind back to Scotland, Alex. There's a time for arrogance, this is not it.

Fine. We have nothing more to discuss. You're dead to me acid.

Awww, okay I like him one bit. Just for my pirate friend! But seriously, he undid a lot of good by overstaying his time in Milan, the last year or two were quite horrible. He shouldn't have changed himself (as a coach) after Istanbul, or have left after 2005, or 2007 at most. I mean his experience and coach skills were there, but the last couple of years they were overshadowed by his arrogance and favoritism.

Can't say I did not enjoy the ride, it was fun though. But the last end of it was needlessly disappointing!

1. Absolutely. To make it a contest with Madrid we must have an adequate strength in it to talk of. I think we're taking the 4-3-1-2 a bit too seriously. It's done. We can't play with it anymore. That blade's too rusted to be of any use in battle. And for the record, we had it even before Kaka...it was at it's best under Rui..the pyramid morphing into the diamond. Kaka's emergence coincided with it's downfall...the crucial dying down of Rino's and Clarence's magnificence. Rino could no longer run for 2 men..and Seedorf couldn't cover for Rino AND pull magic out of his hat. Leaving Kaka to play Usain Bolt with the ball. But at least Carlo managed a way to keep things ticking (go f@ck yourself acid!! )

2. Like I said...why I can't criticise him TOO much is that his starting plan is good...can he be blamed THAT much when his players fail to implement the plan. Lost count of the number of times I see Max screaming at the touchline at the players to get back and cover.Ibra is. The Brazilians...not so much. KPB is tactically inept. There I said it. He's a race horse, when what we need is for him to learn to be a draft horse. I got your game plan. But really it wasn't the personnel that led us down. Our plans under Allegri have always been good, the implementation is hopeless. Khedira didn't mark R80. Noone marked R80 in the first half. They did what Arsenal did to us that time in the Siro. Step forward and cut off passing angles for balls coming to R80. The problem here is a trap we all fall into. Compare the players who performed badly in this match to others (KPB, Flamini) at the peak of their powers.

3. Absolutely. His substitutions need work. He seems to me to be like the Carlo type of manager who rather than changing the personnel on the field, ask the same players to play a little differently....but if it's not working..there's no excuse is there.

4. Your point about pace. I mentioned it before. The fastest bullet will not pass a strong enough kevlar vest. Messi and Iniesta were stopped in their tracks by Zanetti (37) and Cambiasso (also 30+) I think. The difference is the players knew their role and stuck to it. We seem to be having problems with the latter. Either the players are acting rowdy or they don't have the strength to give 100%. I think it's a combination of both. For the record, I'm not huge salivater over this 'fast paced football' thing. You win by controlling the pace of the game, not being faster than your opponent. Take a look at Carlo's Chelsea. Lampard, Essien and Malouda are no slouches, but speed is not their element. Movement is. And our biggest problem is 11 players have no idea where or how to move.

In a 3 man midfield with so much space in your lines;to be a good team it's IMPERATIVE that you move and always provide passing options. Look at any other successful team. Chelsea, Barca, the 2004 Milan.


5. What Allegri meant by being perfect is that the gameplan had to be executed perfectly. In a way those stupid goals nullified it. The same way a counter attacking team gets screwed when it goes a goal down, a possession team gets screwed when it runs out of time. Was the game plan good enough...it doesn't matter. We lost.

6. Allegri is not naive tactically. However the troops are not following the general's commands and it seems to me that it's upto him to crack the whip. If he can't get the troops to follow him, he must leave. Anyway it seems to be happening...the GDS paper is saying affter the Madrid match Max is pissed and only the central defence, Pirlo and Ibra are untouchable for the next match. Good call I think. Till Nov 15 Max has my unquestioned support. After that...well uhm...call in a favour with Trapattoni.

You and your plundering kind. Good post though! Agree with most (if not all) of it.

That's my man! You don't want to pick a 'panga' with a pirate. Is that word there in Urdu as well?

Hmm? What's this?

Yeah, what are you talking about acid?

I remember after the 2007 semi final game, he gave Carlo a bottle of good wine (or was it champagne?) which I thought was a classy gesture... did something happen after that?

@Jack: Sure is, mate. Everyone from kids to adults use that word.

@Locke and ZD: Well it was after he signed up for Chelsea. Carlo basically wrote about it in his book, and the invitation was for a drink. The wily fox basically did not talk to his guest, paid no attention to him, and Ancelotti had to leave. This was just one of the tricks and mind games SAF likes to play with almost everyone. Here's the official story:

JOSE

MOURINHO


JOSE


MOURINHO


JOSE


MOURINHO








(eyes look up at words and ....., eyes look down at picture and ..... )


.... =

Goodness Gracious Me

hey now don't hate the player; hate the game son.

That's pathetic.

Beyond pathetic, if there ever was one! That's not even high school stuff. I just want Karma to bite SAF's behind one of these days. Teach that old hag a lesson. It's not just this incident, Alex Ferguson is a bonafide punk. One that got a lucky break.