Thanks amancik

That's 'cos I care about our tactics and game more than about our results/goals/individual player apparences. This time might have worked but next time against stronger team we can easily fail and than we could have crisis...

Ambrosini-Pirlo-Flamini is the best combination we can make with our midfielders.

Yup... and not only that, but Mascherano is so good and so disruptive you can put him on an island. He doesn't need any help.

I agree with your general point... but with the age of our midfield and the lack of defensive abilities in our wings we're always going to be very open to a counter attack... and in that light, KPB's athleticism and speed really does help cover for Pirlo. Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini should probably be the first choice, sure... but I don't see KPB as much of a downgrade. I did say before the season that he might be best used as an hour mark sub to inject some life and energy into the midfield. The only combo that I don't think works is Gattuso and Ambro together with Pirlo. Too old, too slow, not enough defensive ability (they're all past their prime in that respect).

I wouldn't have a problem with him if we'd use his abilities on that.

That midfield lacks a tad of creativity. Put Boateng instead of Ambro and we're fine.

Your midfield would not have a decent player who can defend. You'd be playing with 2 box to box midfielders

24 m well spent

Meaning what?

Link: http://football-italia.net/sep15w.html

Wow... exactly what I wanted to hear. He's aware of the major problems and working to fix them. Like the progress I saw.

^^ LOL!

All managers are at this level, most just don't come out in the press and declare it.

Didn't see the match...but again we seem to suffer with teams who press high up the pitch. Anyone got any ideas for this?

And please make it nice and practical....and not the Player X is crap routine so we need to spend 190900 million to buy Essien.

Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini imo is not a good idea. Flamini is not a box-to-box mid. He's a DM but he can also move the ball forward at pace and shoot. Imo for a really fast midfield, Flamini-Pirlo-Boateng would be the best choice. Seedorf-Pirlo-Flamini would be slower but can hold better possession. Ambro-Pirlo-Seedorf is the slowest combination we have and imo not a good idea anymore.

Imo this is how the midfield combination should work

Combination 1: Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng:
If Ambro is playing, Boateng needs to play as well, he'll inject pace into a rather slow midfield and Ambro can hold his position while Pirlo and Boateng are the only ones tat can push forward, with Boateng being able to recover his position quickly due to his pace if we get caught out. Also he needs to play on Zambrotta's side, like elcordbez said, you can see clearly how Zambro was holding his position when Boateng moved forward, something Bonera was not doing when Rino moved forward against Cesena, thus Pirlo getting caught wide open. And the DM should be on Antonini's side since he likes to power forward more to help Ronnie

Combination 2: Seedorf--Pirlo--Flamini:
This combination would focus more on keeping possession, while still having some speed in the midfield due to Flamini. Seedorf is a smarter player then Boateng, he knows how to hold his position when Antonini moves forward.

Combination 3: Flamini-Pirlo--Boateng:
Imo this is our fasest and most dynamic midfield trio. Flamni can cover Pirlo while still help out with moving the ball, Boateng will help out in defense while also providing the burst into the box. Pirlo should be ahead of them in the midfield though so he's more free to roam

Combo's that we shouldn't play

Ambro-Pirlo-Rino -> Horrible
Ambro-Pirlo-Seedorf -> Too slow
Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini -> Too one dimensional

I read link you posted a few days ago,i think his emphasis was more on the fact that we lacked the speed to match Cesena's counter attacks something which Flamini and Boateng would give us.I don't think there was too much wrong with Gattuso's role vs Cesena just that he couldn't press/retreat quickly enough and our fullbacks were chasing shadows,that didn't help either.
And imo our 433 is more akin to Chelsea's than Barca.

Boateng just needs fix his positioning in certain situations,from watching the 2nd half again,the Auxerre midfield got behind him a few times but Pirlo mopped up for him once with that sliding tackle but i think that's adequate cover for Pirlo,i know it's asking a lot of Pirlo to do the amount of defensive work he's doing now but i think it's necessary for our 433 to work,attacking wise yeh he is very creative but it can get predictable,needs someone like kpb next to him offering a different option if Pirlo gets closed down.
The midfield in general was...to borrow the commentators term "sloppy" and static so overall you're probably right Boateng wasn't that good and we're getting ahead of ourselves but he stood out in an average team performance and showed that he has the abilities we need in midfield so i'm hopeful.



too early?

alright...

You can't expect 2 players to be the carbon copy of each other. Pato and Sheva have some qualities in common but they're far from similar players. he's not even a #7. at Inter, he wore #11. he's definitely a #11 type of player, so don't let that number 7 fool you!

I think I wouldn't be wrong if I said Sheva was a bit slower, had less technique on the ball but was a better finisher, and had a better sense of team work. he was more 'European' while Pato is more Brazilian. but those qualities he lacks can be worked on and improved nonetheless. he can change as he's still pretty young. and this is not the perfect world of FCB...

So what Pato really needs IMO is a great (or better yet, genius) coach to decide for him which position suits him best. the rest doesn't worry me cause I believe in his talent. maybe Carlo was right after all, playing Pato at the top of his Christmas tree, as a primo punta...

Imo that position limits Pato to a certain degree. I think his best position is coming in from the left. He knows how to easily beat his man from that left side, while on the right he usually gets stuck.

I think when all 3 front players get more accustomed to each other they should all rotate positions continually during the match, they were trying that againt Cesena but were mostly getting in each other's way

Won't limit him in getting on the scoresheet though thing is, the left side belongs to Dinho so playing Pato there is out of question. and he doesn't look comfortable in the right. why not play him where he does feel comfortable? he can score lots of goals as a primo punta. IMO it's better to be amazing at one thing than be just good at many things.

That actually depends on who's doing the thing! I'd say both possibilities have their upsides and downsides, all rounds who are good at a whole bunch of things bring versatile dimensions. Louis van Gaal said about Huntelaar that he is the best player inside the penalty area, bar none. Look where that got him?

In a perfect world, I would have Pato be amazing at one thing, while also being good at many things. And I'd say he has another 2-3 years to sort himself out. For all that counts, he may be a truly explosive player by the time he peaks at say when he is 25 years old.

I personally think Sheva had more techhnique, probably coz he was a bit more mature in his thought process...like you said more European.

Well yeah...I remember that little debate. When Carlo said in one of his Chelsea interviews on Milan...that he'd considered playing Pato on the right flank but Pato said he wouldn't be comfortable playing there..so the plan was dropped.

But I personally like us switching to a 2-striker system. With Pato playing off Ibra. Both being mobile, it would be hard to manmark.

But fitting either of R80 or Robinho in it is hard then..with both strikers playing central.

I didn't watch the last CL match...but I read on some comments from fans that Robinho was doing exactly that when he came on. Popping up on the opposite flank from time to time. Did you guys see it?

I'd like to see this.

Yep Robinho was more mobile then Pato, who mostly tried to cut inside on his weaker foot, which is when he usually got stuck.

Personally I think he can score a lot of goals no matter where he plays, but getting the best out of what he can do aside from scoring is the issue here, and imo that would be playing on the left. But as Zeddie said, Ronnie owns that side and it's not even debatable that he shouldn't be moved.

Then again, I do believe Ronaldinho can play behind the 2 strikers, and drift behind them, it's a matter of making it work though

As for Sheva, I think he had an overall better footballing mind then Pato, Pato is faster and a better dribbler, while Sheva could cross and make a killer pass as well

I'm not talking about easy games, I'm talking about the ones against Real and Inter. Boateng and Flamini are fast and everything but they don't play with their heads... Playing both in the same formation it's very unpredictable.

The time will show us how good/bad Boateng is. After all we need one more striker

Pre-game - Team Photo

Abs is taller than Ibra? didn't know that



lol...

Well i watched the game again,i think he got instructions to push up in the 2nd half he was pretty much in line with Pirlo for the most of 1st half and played quite defensive,the most advanced he ever got was that deflected shot he made on goal.

Time will tell indeed

You can download the game here if you want another look.

1st Half

http://hotfile.com/dl/69677655/77d8947/Mil....part1.rar.html
http://hotfile.com/dl/69677778/e2a405b/Mil....part2.rar.html


2nd Half

http://www.fileserve.com/file/yWBrFPn
http://www.fileserve.com/file/QMD6Smh
http://www.fileserve.com/file/GFtmBb9

I've seen the game.

Look at Auxerres counter attacks and tell me where Boateng is and why he is not there to cover his space in midfiled ?

That says enough. You can't judge Gattuso for his game against Cesena. Boateng made the same errors but fortunately they missed .

Flamini is not a box-to-box dude. Like han explained, he's good at moving the ball forward, but his main position is DM. That's what he played at Arsenal, where he was the "bodyguard" of Fabregas. Playing Flamini next to Pirlo and let Boateng roam back and forth would give the squad more balance and dynamism. That's why this trio should be our starting one in midfield from now on. Playing Boateng-Pirlo-Seedorf would be way too risky, as we saw last night.

I'm really struggling to find in the match which incidents you are talking about man,like which minute in the game did Boateng make the same mistakes as Gattuso?I've watched the game 3 times now and the most dangerous counter was that one breakaway which happened from a Pirlo corner 38mins in and it was 4 on 2,i wouldn't say that was entirely his fault i thought we over committed players to attack that corner.But the rest of the first half kpb played very deep and never got caught out once,he won the ball back in our half multiple times when we lost possession,so if that doesn't count as "stopping a counter" i'm not sure what is.Where as Gattuso vs Cesena same situation would have been trying to chase the opposition down.

The 2nd half he played further forward and made more runs into the box than he did before even so he still covered his position,but like i said,i suspect that was instructions to push up given by Allegri since we wanted a result.I counted maybe 2 - 3 times when he made defensive mistakes but they weren't even counter attacks,he didn't press properly in our own half.There was one major screw up which i mentioned before with Pirlo having to slide in and drawing a foul, Boateng would have been caught out if Pirlo didn't make the challenge,other than that there was really nothing else.

I'm sorry if i sound rude but the notion that "boateng made all the same errors as gattuso" sorry to say but it just didn't happen man.

But if there were other incidents you are talking about perhaps i missed let me know and i'll have a look,i'd be happy to be proven wrong because i don't even like the guy lol...Not sure why i'm sticking up for him,i didn't really like ballack either but what kpb did to him wasn't nice,so i wasn't exactly thrilled to see him in a Milan shirt.
His enthusiasm on the pitch made me think twice.


Oh yeh and this damn English commentator during the Pato substition "Pato's been looking for the exit since the first minute" i didn't appreciate.

Idea.



In this formation Ibra would be more centered than winged out on the right, unlike Ronnie on the left. He would also be expected to come back a little bit more, but he seems to do this anyways. I would give him the freedom to drift foward into a pure striker position when he wants and play next to Pato. Ronnie could drift center and this works out into a 4-3-1-2 during play, but also has the flexibility to remain a 4-3-3. I'd call this formation Optimus Prime since it transforms.

Ambro would also be preferred over Flamini depending on the day.

Nah, Ibra should do the CF. He has all the necessary characteristics for that.

Yes he does, you're right. But he can also assist and pass with precison, all the things Pato seems to have trouble with which are necessary for playing on the right wing. Ibra has all the technical qualities needed to play in a roaming position, while Pato, who excels as a CF, gets to play there. Goals galore.

+1



+1

Still like X-Off. said he should do the CF.

The main problem I have with Pato is that he plays way too wide. Last night he was basically playing on the side-line. That way his talent goes to waste. It's true he has the skills to dribble past opponents, but he's a second striker, not a wing forward. He should play just next to Ibra, a bit more free to roam around the area, but still maintain his nature as forward.

Zlatan needs to be the CF (because indeed he as tall guy etc. fits that) who is leaving the CF spot, and Pato needs to be the forward who goes to the CF spot (as great goalscorer + making good runs). Because I agree with those who wants Pato as CF. Not Zlatan, not Pato, but both are CF but sometimes not.

We don't have a good right back who can go forward, so the right sided midfielder needs to go forward, that should be Boateng and not let's say Gattuso. Boateng, Pirlo and Flamini (or Ambrosini) all can contribute in both defense and attack, Flamini will defend the most. Ronaldinho (or Robinho) needs to track back.

Ronaldinho - Ibrahimovic <--Pato
------V------------|
........................V---------^
..^---------------------------|
--|- Flamini -- Pirlo --- Boateng
--|
Antonini-T.Silva-Nesta-Zambrotta

well played

after the highlights, Leonardo — who has taken up his new profession as commentator on Sky Sports — has some interesting things to say about our tactics and Ibra. He thinks if Ibra settles well, we'll win a major trophy this year. He also thinks that if and only if Nesta is healthy, we can play Dinho, Pato, Robinho, Ibra at times. It's kind of cool to hear his thoughts.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeu3u2_ac...=112#from=embed

Blocked at work. F@CKK!!!

I agree with him. Its possible to play all four but we need a strong defence.



Abbiati-Zambrotta-Nesta-Silva-Antonini- Flamini-Pirlo-Robinho-Dinho-Ibra-Pato


I think only if we play something like this can all 4 play.

Play Boateng in midfield and you still have 4 Forward's in the game...

We could you know..actually do that. In case Zlatan gets injured...and we need a target man. Would be better than playing Ambro as a CF.

Pippo would kill you. He's the backup player for Ibra.

Pippo is backup to nobody. Pippo is pippo. You don't need to unload a nuke bomb in every gunfight. That's why he doesn't play.

If we do play all 4, Pirlo cannot be in that midfield.

agreed. that line up would need to be:


Zambro - TS - Sandro - Antonini
Flamini (holding)
Boateng (box-to-box)
Dinho (free)
Robinho (free)
Pato (plays off of ibra, but also makes runs forward for Ibra/Dinho to pick out and make space for Robinho.)
Ibra

Its possible to play pirlo in it. As long as pirlo is healthy he'll play. He's too useful to bench. You'll see Allegri use all 4 and pirlo this season.

It's possible, but logical? Certainly not. Pirlo is not strong defensively, he does try but he's too light weight. We'd get eaten alive playing with only 1 DM and Pirlo in the mdifield

Not necesarrily depends on how you organize it.


If he has robinho track back, it would easily work. Besides your way too worried about the defence. The only time we'd play this would be against teams that we would stomp. Against strong teams where we don't dominate posession it would be a different game.


small teams will only beat us by getting lucky. Cesena game proved that.

I was just about to mention them in fact, Cesena didn't get lucky, we played right into their hands, the player's arrogance got the better of them.

No team in Serie A is easy, sure you get the occasional 5-0 thumping here and there, but most teams play a smart game. All those attackers with such a weak midfield will leave us completely exposed.

Imo it shouldn't be used unless we're desperate

we had 3 disallowed goals; we had the majority of the possession. Cesena created arguably 4 chances the whole game and capitalized on 2.


Had we scored one of pato's goals, it would have been a different game.


Yes no serie A game is easy, but if we play cesena 10x we'll win 9 of them. I am sure of that.


In regards to our defence, allegri has put in place an offside trap that is brilliant. The only reason we struggled was because nesta wasn't available against cesena and with his absence we lose an organizer. If nesta was there, I highly doubt they would have scored.



I know we've watched milan together for years and we've seen how many times pirlo has cost us games but that was before when we didn't have a strong attack under carlo and we'd score only 1 or 2 goals. Our system now is solely based on attack. We will score and concede. Its the reality of 4-3-3

LOL!!!!

Their opponent got several goals cancelled falsely, how is that not getting lucky?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

They bought the referee, or to say better Moratti bought him for them .

So that's not luck