I agree with the tuttomercato guy about the two Arsenal signings. While I knew Senderos isn't capable of much, Flamini still can improve, but...

Damn..this was a rough loss to take. Another case of the team losing focus to wards the end...this is really a curse.

Have to say I'm totally amazed at Paolo, but will it be possible for him to play against Lazio?

Beckham impressed again. And I'm surprised Kaka played. We knew they were gonna park up tight, so then why Kaka. I would have thought as per Carlo's own theory that R80 would be played. Anyway..at least it wasn't a loss against a fellow CL place competitor.

And looks like my theory about Pato was right. It would only be so long before they started kicking him about. We need Borriello back and soon.

For the uninformed, Cap'n Kangaroo, what theory about Pato?

That it was only a question of time when the B and lower class defenders will start play rough&tuff with him, and cut him down. I guess...

^^^
Precisement.....and I'm Captain Kangaroo JACK if it's all the same to you. Thanks very much!



Sssup...holllaaaaa!

They were already playing rough against Pato, ever since last season... don't you remember how he was butchered by Lazio at San Siro?

The best players always receive the rough treatment I remember Milan compiling a video of all the fouls Ricky has to endure and some of them were plain X rated . Refs should come down hard on these cheating ba5tards IMO after all football is the beautiful game.

Just looked at player ratings.

Maldini was given an 8. The Italian media is stingy. That's a scary high rating for a centerback.

He deserved a 10!

Whoa! That's big news for me. A player at this age, getting so high a rating. And that too a CB. The great thing is after the surgery Maldini didn't have a serious injury or anything like that. I pray that it stays this way. We'd have been very lost without him. Thanks for sharing, Ten!


Blasphemy! No rating big enough for Paolo. FACT.

I can't believe!!!!!! I simply can not believe in this crap..... We were a better side for f**king 75 min, we hit two crossbars and then we conceded 2 mins before the end..... We have played a beautifull game for 60 minutes then we have droped in tempo, but dramaticaly droped..... Why? Even if I am a carleto fan i must admit that this was his fault... He made totally wrong decisions.... His subtitutes was wrong, we needed some frash face in 65th minutes to give us that tempo we needed, ambro was exhausted and we needed flamini in for him, our difence worked very very well for the first time in this season and then why change that? And the biggest mistake: take pato out when they needed to push up and when they put some real ground for our counter attacks, who is better then kaka and pato for that, i don't know but we played a awesome game for 75 min, and we have payed some stupid mistake that can happen only to us! I am so sad , but if we continue to play like this and if we will be able to PLAY THE GAMES UNTIL THE END i think we can win the scudetto but we are not allowed to make false steps anymore. it will be very difficult and the decision can be in next 2 fixtures, if we take the same amount of points as inter, we are finished and only god can save us....

Why do you think I stopped hoping for the Scudetto months ago?

Carlo.can't.win.us.the.scudetto. PERIOD!

If he did, it'd be more like a miracle than reality. but I'm sure it won't happen.

If we all had the same attitude I wonder what the term "fan" would consist of.

Being a fan doesn't mean ignoring the truth...

Does it mean one can't possibly look for any positives whatsoever, then?

I expressed MY OWN opinion.

Opinion? Truth? What's the difference?

You want the truth? the truth is we have managed to drop unnecessary points much more than we're supposed to [considering we claimed ourselves Scudetto contenders (LOL) at the start of the season]. that's why we're 8 points off the 1st place.

Bah...

Funny. Presentation of the truth as a medium of opinion has been used by many. It's legal, and normal. But I really don't see a point in repeating it again.

Telling the truth in a House M.D. fashion isn't always the right solution, you know?

Maldini and Flamini are banned for Lazio after picking up yellows. Guess that means either Favalli-Senderos or Favalli/Senderos-Bonera. Neither is very encouraging.

I wish I knew what you're talking about...


Those are not opinions. those are facts; well, unless you come out and say we haven't lost any points to mid/bottom table teams and we're not 8 points behind Inter.

How is it not the right solution? We talk and act like we are better than juve and inter AND yet we prove it by being third???

Truth is carlo made a mistake and he should get a warning. At this level mistakes are not allowed no matter what you have done or who you are. If it goes for Dida who has a great history with us but made a couple mistakes in a season and got permantly places on the bench, the same should go for carlo.

Personally I'm tired of being happy with 3/4/5 place. If carlo doesn't win scudetto he should be sacked, enough is enough. Were milan not lazio, genoa, fiorentina.

I think the team as a whole should get a warning if Carlo gets one. Yeah, the subs weren't great, but the performances? Mostly subpar. Exceptions to that would be Maldini and (much as I hate to say it) #32.

that is if your a ancelotti fan.

See...this is where I find the confusion. Your statement seems to imply that we're not scudetto contenders. While you know it ain't over. And we're not clinging to some vague hope either. Inter aren't playing well. They have dropped points. And you know as well as I do, that they've been lucky to get points on a lot of occasions.

Now if I'm not wrong, you were part of the band who felt before XMas when we were struggling to get points, and often got them by fluke- that we were lucky, and that this would come back to bite us. So surely this rule holds for Inter as well.

Now holding onto the theme of luck (before we move onto other things), remember when once they drew up a list of standings that would have been the case if there hadn't been refereeing errors...well channel 4 did the same thing again...take a look at this...



Now do your math again... So while at present we're 8 points off...technically we should be...3 points off Inter (if my math is not wrong). So does this make us scudetto contenders then?

Yes I know..Coulda..shoulda..woulda has no weight..fine..but I just raise this point because your tone seems to suggest we're some hopelessly outclassed team at the races. Last season, you would have been absolutely right..but now?

We're 8 points off...Inter still have to play the big guns of Serie A, they're playing badly AND they're going to head into CL as well.

We're 2 or maybe 3 points off Juve, who are progressively getting weaker, and have to mix it in the CL. Which they can't dump, coz it means too much to them, their first tourno after the fall from grace.

Really if after all this you're still saying it's hopeless, then maybe the three of us (the 3 who I know share my opinion): Filippo_Simone, Tennie and <insert the name of the sexiest, coolest, awesomest, handsomest, did I say sexiest? winner of the MF Funny Poster award 2008-09> feel wrong about it.

Coz if after all this, you're saying we're cr@p, then I think you're being a cynic not a realist. But yes cynics do feel they're being realists. So do pessimists. In fact only the optimist says- Maybe or I hope.

That aside..my personal reason: See when this season started I admitted the following: This is the most help Carlo has been given by the management in a long time. Caro is officially on probation, but I will not pass judgement till this season is over. So for all matters he is still my coach. I also said with a brand new team, and new tactics required, I would take the scudetto or I would take 2nd place and the UEFA cup as a successful season.

As far as I'm concerned we're well on track. 2nd place is a real possibility, so is finishing 5-7 points of Inter. Hence why, I'm not jumping livid. So I'm not blind to reality...I just accept the current reality as a not-so-bad thing.


I totally understand where you're coming from. I won't even accuse you of being an overzealous fan. But look I've seen enough Milan to be used to these infuriating displays. I knew from the start we weren't shoo-in scudetto rivals for Inter. Hence my 'reduced' expectations. I also expected the usual brilliant displays coupled with the usual shite. So really..I'm not like 'HOW CAN THEY DO THIS??!!'...coz I knew they'd do exactly that.

I compare this season with the last, and I'm happy. Thassall.

No doubt about that statement, agree with you 100%

Jack there is one huge flaw in your statement. When you said you'll be happy with second place. None of the top clubs in any league would ever say something like that. Madrid sacks coaches who win the la liga because of their place in the champions league. Were too easy going on the coach and players. If we dont get scudetto i think carlo should be shown the door.

What about #7? I've been reading some good things about his recent performances everywhere, Milanfan included.

They don't say it but...they don't break their heads either if they finish 2nd. And Madrids coach-sacking did lead them exactly...where?

Why not break their heads? Are we a midiocre club or the best club in the world? To me that manchester and barca right now and were far from that. Madrid sacking coaches shows what a high standard they have in regards to what they achieve. Maybe thats why they are much more supported club than we are. Where that led them is the fault of calderon and the board not the players. Signing players that are useless isn't going to help anyone.

Why do you support Milan then I have to ask?

Because of kaka/sheva and in 2003-2005 we were god-like litterly. Then I saw the club policies/goals and saw what a history we possessed when we gave a damn.


Why do you support this club?

Why? Because Milan is from day 1 an integral part of my life.

Everyone knew this would happen... that's the worst thing. The mentality of the team has not changed and the same mistakes were bound to be repeated.
I'm totally against sacking coaches and offloading players because of a (string of) bad season(s) but one cannot but be fed up when the players don't give 100% and yet they are not punished and when the coach makes the same mistakes over and over again. You know, this is a team that have what it takes to win the Scudetto that's what's disheartening...
I've certainly NOT given up on the title and I'm against comments such as "we're screwed" and "we suck". I don't get it though why these exaggerated comments have to be criticized. On the other hand your stance could be seen as apathy, it's two sides of the same coin. I believe the truth always lies somewhere in the middle and I don't get why the same conversation between the calm and the not-so-calm posters has to repeated every week.
Behind the nickname Zed.D there's a human being (or an evolved bot) who has a certain way of reacting. You cannot make Zed react the way you do and he cannot make Jack Sparrow react the way you do... the day we accept this, milanfan will be a happier place.

I agree in a way. But wouldn't that be the same day we stopped talking and started just commenting?

No what I mean is I don't think it's right to tell me "hey you should not act this way". What's appropriate I believe is "hey I'm calmer and that's because...".

You cannot convince me not to post ugly, unfair posts about Seedorf and I cannot convince you to post "f you Carletto. Get ouf of here"... the only thing that's constructive is to focus on the situation not on the way one reacts to the situation.

I'm not preaching here, I just hate to see us fight over "who's the biggest fan"...

Great answer!

You didn't answer my question. You need to give me a how to justify the why. So how is it that you even came to support milan. I told you my reasons.

I can't speak for Pippo, Soho...but my answer would be loyalty through force of habit. I picked up Milan as a club iaround 96 or 97. Coz I was this huge fan of Maldini(thanks to dad), and I figured I'd just support whichever team he played for. I was 10. I knew F-all about formations and tactics or whatever. It's been 12 years and believe it or not, if I do the math, they've been more bad than good. I picked a rather lousy time to support Milan. But the good times started with that fat b@stard we call the coach. So you must excuse me if my loyalty seems too blind.

Soho..I perfectly agree with you when you say big clubs don't do that. I'm not saying for one minute that Milan must act defeatist right at the start of the season. Of course, you must go out there looking to chase all the trophies you want. But I just think going for broke, and ending up with a little less shouldn't be seen as a failure.

Anyway looking at our team once again at the start of the season...

1.We had no reliable striker. No attacking combo. : You will agree with this. Pato has come into his own, only in the last few months. Borriello is out. He was meant to be an integral part of the team, you can't deny this. I refuse to believe that 15 million was spent, so he could be a sub. So essentially, we started with no fixed strikers(tactically), and now have a fragmented one.

2.Brand new mid-field, with 'compulsory' additions. : No I'm not trying to diss R80. But the truth was, Carlo wanted Ribery, he said as much but the mgmnt. wanted R80. Now it made sense to me that he would want Ribery, because you had one player in Kaka who plays from centre to the left, while Ribery plays from the centre to the right. It would have been an excellent managed attack (on paper), and would also have dealt with the lack of penetration our fullbacks have had width-wise, ever since Sergio and Cafu left. But we got R80, and Carlo's had to make a set of tactics (he's still making it) that suits Kaka and R80. Their last experiment btw was the 2006 WC, and you know how that went. R80 had to play at least initially to keep the crowds in , and while we could have flopped horribly, things didn't go as bad as it could have. Not to mention Flamini, Emerson,Ambro, Pirlo and Rino all of whom would technically require playing time. I hope you don't think man-management is as easy as 'You're not playing, sit on the bench!'

3.Completely decimated defence: I think it says it all. When someone who was supposed to be our fourth choice CB, and someone who's supposed to be our non-playing captain, fight like gladiators to keep the team in the hunt(not that they're given any brownie points for doing what is above and beyond their call of duty), something is not right in our defence.


4.Injuries: We've been hurting and hurting bad. Our key players have been injured at every point in the season, in fact we haven't ever had one time when all our top players were available for selection at the same time. In defence- Nesta, Kaladze is out. In mid- Pirlo was out, then when Rino was in great form and easily our best mid he took a knock as well. In attack - Except for Pato everyone's been unfit.

Now the deal is Juve's loss was excused against Catania(?) coz their best defender-Chiellini, key/best mid:Marchionni and best-striker: Alex was out. Shall we apply the same yardstick to Milan then?? But we don't, coz we're Milan, and we must win CL even if we've forced Baresi and Tassoti to play for us. Btw that's happened too. We were so understaffed that Tassoti took part in the training games.


Now from the above, Points 1,2 and 3 I knew beforehand,so I figured we were scudetto contenders, but that it would a couple of steps short of impossible to win. I retained hope, coz well...we're Milan. But seriously, after point number 4, I'm not even arguing with my belief that 2nd place and UEFA would be an achievement in itself. And this is not bringing into account, my earlier mentioned point about the refereeing. That quote I posted was before Inter won two matches. One with Maicon's offside goal, and the other was the last match I think where Catania seemed to have a goal disallowed. Assuming Inter would still have won, that's still an extra 2 points (at least) that Inter have been gifted.

Before you go into Inter having injuries, yes their defence was hit. I think for three weeks when Chivu and Matrix was out. They had Cordoba, Burdisso and I think Samuel was played as well.

We've gone one and a half months playing our fourth choice CB pairing and will probably do so for another one month., which btw I think deserves lot of credit. Credit that is rarely forthcoming.


Finally your point about big clubs. I suppose you've heard of Madrid. Sergio Ramos coming out and saying that it's all dependent on Barca?? Or Schuster saying they had no chance. First off, so big clubs have given up the race, and this season too. And this club was the biggest. Now I don't know, but as per your argument, saying the 'truth like House M.D' is perfectly justified- which is exactly what Schuster did. Yet, you say Madrid were totally right in firing him.

Firing coaches- Well I can give you examples: Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea, Valencia, Madrid, Newcastle the list goes on.

While on the other hand you have teams like Villa, Everton, Napoli, Udinese etc.

Just my perspective of looking at the matter.


@Pana: It wasn't my intention to imply Zed.D wasn't a Milan fan. Just that we're looking at the same thing from different perspectives. That, perhaps having reduced expectations (as opposed to a winning a double/treble every season) isn't such a bad thing. That perhaps the 'realism' must apply to the targets we choose, and not just at the end of every drawn/lost match.

Hm, Sparrow, Kangaroo...you've got just about the whole animal kingdom covered.

You forgot the 'tiger in bed' part.

...



...

So you will accept any **** from your woman because she made you happy in the past? The ***** is even flirting with other men (Roma)!

I think that Ancelotti is definately one of the Top 5 coaches in the WORLD and Milan are very lucky to have him as a coach. Yes he has flaws. So does every player on Milan (except Maldini). Non one is perfect. I am relitively young compared to some of you other members. (only 15) and I have only been a Milan fan since I was around 8. Carlo has been the main coach of Milan for my life. I havent seen the game grow and change like many of you have but I can say that Calro is an outstanding coach, and no I am not fighting his point but look at what the man has created here. I cant see Milan without Carlo on the bench. No matter how much we complain he will stay in Milan until HE is ready. I agree that we lost 2 points mainly due to him. I saw as many of you did how Pato played and taking him off was more than foolish. I agree that the whole Ronaldinho thing was the managments fault. Carlo is too smart to know that on Brazil Kaka Ronaldinho didnt work so why will it be different here. He has done well with what he has been given, but everyone makes mistakes.

Why isn't there a Lazio - Milan thread opened?

acid, that's your job, get your lazy @ss moving!

han, you could do it too! if you're not interested, nod me.

I don't really have a good record when it comes to opening match threads.

acid so far has something like a 3-1-1 record when it comes to opening them, just don't want to jinx it

Neither do I

Let's wait for acid!

Why? My dad always loved Milan and especially Paolo Maldini, Zvonimir Boban and Marco Van Basten so I decided to discover why and it just went that way...