I must say that Atalanta 3 - interioristi 1


Btw, on sunday, 25th day of january 2009 we are going to Bologna on 15 o'clock

No no no please delete that result from this thread, it's bad luck!

I've got just two little words for Bologna: Revenge! Time to avenge or 2-1 loss at the start of the season.

(plus, their coach has merda cooties.)

The big question here is will we see Kaka play?

It's still hard for me to believe that even if we are intending to eventually sell him, it will be in January.

We don't go for good players saying their clubs wouldn't sell them in January and yet we want to sell "KAKA" in the middle of the ******* season?!

They should at least let him finish the season with Milan, so he can help us win something, have a goodbye game, etc.

The unthinkable way the management have handled this just makes me want to puke.

They pride themselves on being a classy club but there is nothing classy about how they've handled Kaka.

I'm hoping that Kaka doesn't agree to this move then push his way out to Real in the summer for a lesser sum. It would serve our management right for the way they've treated a player that has given so much to our club

After all the things that have happened in the past few days, I think even if Kaka disagrees to join City, it's highly unlikely that we will see him for many years. the management just ruined this relationship by showing their true colors. not a long time ago they used to say Kaka is "not for sale at any price". now look how they [along Kaka's father] are pushing him to City, against his will...

I hope this acts as a lesson for our other players, that they should not over-trust this management. because one day a big offer and they get sold like a product.

Exactly.

I've previously said, that should this deal for some reason not go through Kaka is gone come summer. He knows how the management value him now, the trust there was before no longer exists.

And now that Kaka sees how loyal the management truely are towards him there is no reason he shouldn't treat them the same way, and frankly I wouldn't blame him one bit.

If Kaka stays beyond this season by some miracle it would only be becuase he loves the club and his life in Milan. I know this is wishful thinking but I'm still hoping that this ridiculous deal won't go through and the management are left with cr@p on their faces for this whole fiasco that has rediculed Milan in everyone's eyes

0 - 2 Milan win !

Yeah, I am dissapointed with the way Milan handled Kaka's case. It's a shame really. Kaka' has done a lot for Milan and this is how they repay him?. Thankfully, he has set his heart here and we'll be staying with us for now. I look forward to see him in the next match. Forza Kaka'!

+1. There yet may be some fallout from all this farce, I believe, though hope not.

I agree...armiss, can you please delete the inter reference? Acid...I want stats up ASAP or it's you @ss. Kaka's staying, so now you have no excuses.




Oh there won't be. I've been mulling over this transfer for some time now. And things have changed.

1. Like another poster mentioned, now other superstars will be loathe to seek transfers on wages. Especially the ones in EPL. Since accepting a move would imply that they're not as true in affection as Kaka. Imagine what the United fans must be thinking of Crisitiano Ronaldo who is '10x better than Kaka'. Also the kind of affection displayed for Kaka must have shook a few people who though Italy was about empty stadiums.

2. Man City's rep is in tatters. The played the money card and it didn't work. Now who will want to work with them. I always suspected they were over-reaching themselves.

3. Suddenly EPL is no longer the league everyone wants to go to.

4. Milan remains unique, and have put one over all the other clubs incl. Italy. Juve who sold Zidane. Viola and Roma who agreed philosophically and said they would 'go with the sale' if Kaka was theirs. Of course I don't give a d@mn about Secco who said he wouldn't sell Del Piero for 108 MM. Milan wouldn't sell Paolo for 108 MM either. But I know Juve would give up Chiellini in a heart beat for anything north of 50.

5. Kaka agreeing to play for his current wages also kind of forces the hand of all other Milan player agents. Now they can no longer ask for payhikes for their wards without looking like a-holes.

Sorry, pirate boy. I only do stats for thread that I open myself. Rules are rules are rules. But you're too good a friend to say no to, so I'll put them up in a little while! Hehe. Watch this space.

Great, great post!

As for #2, I never ever thought they'd be able to emulate what Chelsea did [I know what Chelsea did was no big deal either, but at least they built a team potentially capable of winning anything]. I never believed they'd do sh!t and I still do. they don't think realistically. there's no logic to the whole thing at all. when they think they can succeed with paying around £200M for a single player, you go figure.

I wonder how Robinho feels after all this! money wh@re

I was talking more about underground stuff that the media/fans don't know about. If the management wanted the $$$ and Kaka said no to the deal, then there may yet be some repercussions. It might stay inside the walls of Milan. Then again, nothing might happen, which I hope is the case. I want January the 19th to be the day this farce ends once and for all.


Um, money whores don't feel anything. Except money of course, but then again, they don't feel money because for them there's always a chance of sucking up for more. If Robinho got a better offer, he'll move there, I'm fairly sure.

Yeah, once he left Real for Man City, I knew his brain had stopped functioning. he's the stupidest talent on earth!

I hope he never comes anywhere near Milan.

Man City should realise that they can't do the Chelsea thing. Chelsea had first mover advantage. Now it's different.

They must try the Aston Villa method. The big difference is they have more money. However they must go about it step by step. First break into UEFA. Then within two or three years into CL. It'll take them 7 years at least if they play their cards right. But they must have the patience. Get within the top 10 regularly and money can get them a good coach for their level. Like say, Laudrup or even Donadoni. Hughes is unproven, but who knows he might even make it.

City can take their Sheikh and his money and shove it !!!

I think it will be good game. Kaka will be inspirated!

I think Chelsea had a mojor weapon at their disposal and that was Jose Mourinho, they wopuld have never won the things they won no matter what superstars they bought. Mourinho knows how to turn those egotistic stars into a team that would die before giving up and losing a match.

City on the other hand have Mark Hughes, what World Class player would be attracted to joining them when their project leader is a third rate English coach that has no experiance with how to handle a team and has never won anything of value

Gazzetta's predicted lineup:

Abbiati
Antonini Maldini Favalli Zambrotta
Beckham Pirlo Ambrosini
Kaka Seedorf
Pato


I'd like to see Ronaldinho start in front of Seedorf, and also see Senderos get a start.

I hope Seedorf doesn't start in that trequartista role, either he starts in the midfield 3 instead of Beckham (which I think is playing a lot better then Seedorf atm so deserves to start) or he should not play at all.

Dinho or a striker should be starting.

It's really comforting to think Kaka will be there. I have to admit, the thought of a Milan side without Kaka troubled me more than anything, even than seeing Kaka in a sky blue jersey, during those days.

As for Dinho and Seedorf, I think it's only fair if Seedorf sits on the bench and Dinho starts along Kaka, as he didn't play much against Fiorentina. so Ka-Pa-Ro in attack [with Flamini-Pirlo-Beckham in the midfield] for me.

Antonini as RB, Zambro LB?

If this will be our line-up...I really cannot understand Ancelotti. I mean...Antonini plays the LB better, and Zambro the RB, but they are inverted for some reason. (why not try the new guy?)

Isn't Senderos match-fit? Against a Bologna I'd rather start with one fresh CB. Favalli and Maldini did an amazing job last match but...oh well, seems our regular CB pair this season will be them.

Seedorf or Dinho, I'd start with Clarence - because Dinho just like Beckham lacks still of phyisicall strenght and stamina. If things go wrong we can allways make a fast sub. But I'd pick either Becks-Ambro-Pirlo-Kaka-Clarence or Flamini-Ambro-Pirlo-Kaka-Dinho.

Flamini really dissapointed me recently. I know he plays little, but...somehow he's to neutral, a little bit of everything, but nothing sufficiently to say he's doing good.

In any way, I find it positive we're at least able to repeat line-ups and hold on one "regular" squad selection. If we stay clear of injuries till sunday, I'll be happy to see the same Viola XI minus Janku.

I still have to think about a Milan side without Maldini. It's not really comforting, you know.


I fear it might be a case of played none, won none, you're fired. I hope not, but the way things are going with Flamini not getting any playing time of note, his confidence seems to have dropped down. Flamini seems to me a 'touch player', once he's good, he becomes great. You absolutely have to play guys like him, regularly (even if the last 30 minutes of every match). I recall what Gourcuff's father said that one just can't destroy careers of young and upcoming players like this - they'll end up no where. Flamini is a young gun, though a bit experienced one, with a big future ahead. If he sees his career go nowhere he'll ask for a move, while we stick with our favorite players.

If I didn't know any better, I'd half think Carlo hates French players. First Gourcuff, now Flame.

Agreed


Agreed on the whole fullback point, Sometimes I just cannot understand Carlo, the strange things he does, and it would be ok if they worked well in favour of the team, but this whole 'strategy' of putting the right footed fullback on the left and vice-versa is just rediculous.

As for who should start, I still say Dinho, Beckham and Flamini instead of Seedorf, Ambro. Seedorf in the trequartista role really holdes us back with his lack of speed, bad passing and slow build up game. Dinho might not be a road runner but he's far better at distributing and playing on the wing cutting through the middle. It should be a choice between Seedorf and Beckham in the midfield 3 and imo, if we're going to go on starting the player that has been performing better and putting in more effort on the pitch then Beckham would win it hands down, but since we all know that that is not how Carlo picks his starting 11 then we all know who he will choose to start

Flamini started great, he put in some really class performances at the beginning of the season but then Ambro and Rino were both available to play and Carlo dropped him immediately. This is what I hate about Carlo, the fact that he doesn't pick his teams based on performances and form but on seniority and favourites. And Ambro has been bad these past few games, bad touches, bad passes, irrational challenges. Flamini brings far more to the table, he's got a far better technique on the ball, better passing and doesn't go in on players like Ambro does.


Agreed

When Pato played little, he disappointed too! he was neutral too!... Carlo needs to trust Flamini more than this... give him more time on the pitch. otherwise he will be yet another player that failed at Carlo's Milan.

So I for one will not expect anything special from Flamini unless he plays with some continuity. I certainly wouldn't blame him for his poor form [just so you don't get me wrong and start arguing, I'm not saying you are blaming him or anything ].

Oooh, I love these little disclaimers! But I certainly agree with Han's and your posts above. Let Carlo do the same with Ambro, Seedorf and others, and let's see how ordinary they become after getting ten minutes twice a month. Sure every coach has trouble balancing things, but this is something else, entirely.

No, I don't agree with the conclusion that Flamini's performances depend on his playing time, and once again Ancelotti is unreasonable.

Pato never dissapointed, he's totally a different page. But guys...with that kind of attitude Milan/Ancelotti would have soon to develop a 12 or 13 man-on field strategy. I mean, it can't be that everything summs up to the - "Gourcuff should have played more and Flamini should have played more"...

Of course it's not that simple. Never is. But Carlo's the head coach, and the responsibility had to fall somewhere. As they say, with great power, comes great responsibility. Carlo being the numero uno in team selection, he should have done better. Of course, people, fans and media will come for him. Not Leonardo. Not Ibrahim Ba. Not the physio.

The least he can do is stand up to his mistakes. His mistakes. The players have to answer for theirs.

IMHO, it certainly is dude. When you play, it will build up your confidence and you will see which area you need to improve upon. You will understand your teammates better and you will know how to handle the game's pressure. Some things needs experience on the field itself rather than strategy in a study room. But when you have a little of playing time, your confidence will diminish. You will find it hard to find the "tune". You will choke, succumb to the game's pressure. That's why Gourcuff can excel atm. Well, my two cents of course!!

Nope, I still don't agree. Pato reach a low, Carlo benched him. Pato came from the bench and showed up, even in the last 15 or 10 minutes. Then Carlo considered him a starter again. That's what it takes IMO. If Flamini fails to show up in the last 10 or 15 minutes, why should he in the whole 90?

Does players are professionals for M's sake! They aren't just a bunch of whino's and primadonna's. Confidence is mainly overrated these days.

Pato can't be compared with Gourcuff and/or Flamini. He scores one, two goals and he's back in the contention. If not, the fans and media will scream to include him because he's in good nick. Let's try this with Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Ambrosini, Ronaldinho, Beckham, Emerson, even Favalli, and then we'll talk. A striker takes one good minute to score and he's more than back, while a midfielder or defender has to show his worth through an extended period of time.

The last goal in the Fiorentina game that Pato scored, was all Beckham's making. He had the ball, kicked it but then missed it, got it back again instantly (through luck, yes), and then passed to Janku who gave it to Pato all the while both the teams were getting back. Pato took his shot and scored. Sure you have your opinion, and I respect that, but there may yet come a time when we'll regret all this. When all of our midfield regulars retire (all are above 30), when we have new guys who aren't gelled together, and everything in the midfield will fall like a deck of cards in an earthquake!

Do you think Cesc would have risen to the top had Wegner done to him what Carlo does to young players? Or someone else for that matter. Nope. Pato was and always will be a special case. Besides, I don't like to compare goalscorers with the players in engine room or goalkeepers. My honest, and humble $0.02.

Oh, and I'd highly suggest getting the highlights of that goal and seeing how well Beckham played on that one. He started before the defender, and then accelerated enough to get past him and kick the ball to Janks. Point is, things like these don't always happen, and midfielders always need special care and time to assert themselves on a game. Beckham, of course, can't be compared to Flame or Gorky.

+1

Thank you. I like Carlo very much too, but it's hard for me to deny that he's not playing with player's careers. Intentionally or otherwise. I hope things work out, though, and we develop our own young players, as well as make superstars out of the ones we buy!

Like acid said, you can't compare a midfielder, especially like Flamini to a striker.

Hey, I didn't start the comparison! It was my response to Zee, he mentioned Pato.

I don't tend to compare different positions. But there is a parallel. You see if one show's off or not, no matter if he scores or not.

As for french players and Carletto...could be true. Dhooraso, Gourcuff, Flamini,...(Henry)
Then again, he had a good relationship with Zidane, Pedros, Thuram,...

Legends. Or at the very least, established players. I'm 100% sure, and never for one instance implied that he's a racist, but these guys were near the top. I'm sure if Gourcuff was 32 years old, and had been in Milan for 6-7 years, he'd be starting ahead of the next youngster day in and day out. And it's certainly not too much to ask of a coach to develop and give confidence to young players. Well okay, develop is not the right word, but at least give a chance, give them a sense of security, bring out the best of them.

I just want the best for the club. Not the present, the future too. The problem lies not with Carlo the person. It's Carlo that coach that comes off as an elitist. He only likes to play his favorites, players who are proven talents, big name players, elite players of sorts. It's not a bad quality to have, being elitist. But too much of everything is never good.

And oh, ever noticed the friends of Carlo? Emerson, Seedorf, Brocchi, Kaladze, Zidane, Cafu, Serginho, and others. These are the guys that always had a warm relationship with the coach. The closest to him. And all of them elite, established, experienced and old players.

I'm sure even Ancelotti will agree he's not good with young players. Some coaches are, some not.

Well, Thuram wasn't quite a legend back then and he still was young, while Pedros,..well. I think Daniel Bravo played also for Parma while Ancelotti was coach, but yes, he was a veteran then. On the other hand, soon as Ancelotti took over at Juventus, players like Blanchard and Deschamps were sold.

But I don't agree that Ancelotti cannot handle young players. He proved it in Parma, Juventus, and Milan also.

Anyway, I don't wanna start another Carletto debate. Just think Flamini's problem is beyond the obvious "not enough playing time" level.

Fair enough! Like I said these things are not as simple as black and white.

I don't think zd was comparing them as players and how they effect the game. He was comparing their situations, ie, when Pato was not being given enough playing time last season in order for Pippo to start people were already starting to label him as the next overrated Brazilian. Because whenever he came on for the last 10 minutes of matches he couldn't really find his feet. And for a midfielder it's even harder to come into a game and make a difference, because a striker comes on, doesn't do anything but manages to score a goal he's a hero, where as a midfielder needs to come on get into the rythem of the game and impose himself on the pitch, it's a much tougher ask.

Flamini was playing well at the start of the season, one of our most impressive performers, but when Ambro and Rino were both availble he got dropped. Because that's how Carlo works. Picks teams based on seniority, age and favouritism.

Henry was another one of those player that you could say was an overlooked youngster by Carlo, in order for Carlo to play a young player he has to have an obvious talent that you can't deny, like Kaka, if not Carlo won't give him the chance, Henry at the time was a winger at Juve, but still the talent was all there. But Carlo couldn't recognise it. And wouldn't give him the chance on the pitch to establish himself and see where he's more comfortable playing.

Top post, han!

It can't be that everything sums up to "Carlo is always right, Carlo always makes the right decisions" either

Is There any chance of Seeing Mattioni in this match?

I don't know, Carlo hasn't even included him in the team sheet for the friendly against Hanover today. Seeing him in a Serie A match against Bologna, seems too far away. Then again, last time I checked I wasn't Carlo, so who knows we may yet see him. We'll see.

And you would pick them based on? Everyone has to pick players based on something.


Be carefull when you start playing the Henry card. That was a different story. I read once here Carlo was the one who forced him out of Juve...

Obvious talent? Oh,...


Did I say that? In fact, I started the first critic on Ancelotti saying his fullback pairing does not make sense?

I'm just bored of the same routine - if a player plays great, it's "despite Carletto", if he sucks it's "because of Carletto".

You're bored of it but it's true right?