Panama Devil nice post for a not so common poster...really says alot!

I must say I really liked your teams too, then I realised they had 12 players

Now saw this part - don't agree on this though!

Nice picture. "Only take Viagra if you're healthy enough for sex."

I think having Pirlo and Pippo together for such a long portion of the match killed our pacing. It speaks volumes that we're still overreliant on Kaka even though he's been a shadow of himself this season.

obviously the players are to blame. but carlo as a coach cant motivate, constantly blaming everyone and everything else except himself and the team, using the same old retarded tactics that arent working, and terrible substitutions, etc has no place here anymore.



if your clueless and you know it pucker your lips

Oh well next match Catania at home last season we only managed a draw from this i remeber the disallowed Pippo goal hopefully we can get a result out of this !

Forza Milan !!!

We know what Goal.crap's ratings are like, but they gave Amelia an 8, which I agree with. He was solid throughout and proved more decisive than Abbiati (who received an 8.5; eh, yeah), keeping a clean sheet, including the first penalty save, until Dinho's second PK. Think they'll both get called up for Italy's next match?

Srry next match is Coppa Italia not Catania

Coppa Italia Milan - Lazio 19:45pm UK time on the 3rd

I'd like to see who'll start that one. Hopefully Dida and some of those Uruguayan (that's a b!tch to spell) guys, for starters.

that b@st@rd cavani, he always scores against me in FM, then he does it in rea life

Surprise, surprise! the Uruguayans are not in our UEFA players list

Yeah, of course the game would have been different if Ronaldinho had scored his first penalty; we would have slowed down the tempo and defended our 0-1, like always. our ugly brand of anti-football. I'm glad Ronaldinho's penalty didn't go in.

And I DO hope whenever we take this approach, we lose. because it's disgusting to see Milan play like this.

I would much rather stay as we are then have this noodle as our coach (and you all know how I feel about Carlo)


Sad to think but totally true


Oh pls, Silvio hasn't been an active part of Milan in ages. He has more important things to worry about, that is the only reason Carlo is still our coach, otherwise I'm 100% sure that he would have been sacked after last season's horror show


So true. You also have to look at the Maldini situation, I personally believe that it's great to still have him hear, just his presence is important to the team imo. But to not get another quality defender because we have Paolo is stupid. Galliani should know that Paolo cannot play more then a game per week, and sometimes even less then that, and he's out injured most of the time. It's utterly stupid to rely on a 40 year old, especially with Nesta constantly being injured.

The Favalli point is mute. He should have been shipped off along with Emerson.




This is what we've been reduced to. Like we've been repeating over and over, we've become so predictable that any opposing team's coach with half a brain would be able figure out how to block our attempts, and not only that, the fact that we try to slowly go throught the middle everytime, lose the ball and the opposing team goes on the counter. This is how we lost most of our points last season and it's becoming very clear that it's being repeated all over again this season


Pippo should not have come on that early yesterday. I don't think he even touched the ball more then 2 times. Sheva should have been the one to come on. Carlo not only makes the mistakes in his starting line-ups but he also fails to identify a problem during the match, and doesn't know how to react to it

It's funny how they're all talking about the penalty when in reality it was a freekick since Pato was taken out on the edge of the area. I'm sick of the excuses. Why can't anyone admit that the team didn't play well. And that the decision to start with the xmas tree without Kaka even in it was a mistake

btw, anyone who says that Carlo uses the xmas tree becuase he has to play both Dinho and Kaka, that argument has now been deemed null and void. Carlo just demonstrated it for you

Han, some things never change. don't expect people to admit it's just the way Carlo loves his team to be. now they'll argue that Carlo didn't have enough options up front and had to use 4-3-2-1... you know, 'Sheva is not fit enough and Pippo is too old' [though other times Pippo is 'immortal' and Sheva is a great buy].


Carlo's insistence on usuing this system wonders me to no end...

LOL you're right LOL

I already corrected it. The reason I left Pirlo out is because we need more push in our attack ... our counterattacks lack speed and we need it. Pirlo is an excellent passer but unfortunately he's too slow and now everybody is expecting his long passes.

I think Gourcuff will give a totally new dimension to our team.

IF he remains confident and others make him feel he could be useful for Milan, of course, he's an awesome AM.

But problem is that with Pirlo, Kaka, Gattuso, Ambro and Seedorf [and of course, Dinho] all regulars in Carlo's book, and Emerson and Flamini as his favorite substitutes, Yoann will definitely struggle again. there is simply no space for him.

I don't want him back because I know he won't make it under these circumstances.

I missed the 3rd goal, but it looks like Simplicio had an easy job with all the defenders and of course, Emerson, standing and watching him... he's alone and unmarked there.

I'm not defending Kaladze, but I'm sure if he was playing, he would have been bashed for not being able to keep up with Simplicio...

That picture sums up Emo, he is simply a spectator. he does nothing in the matches save for a few pathetic attempts to jog through the middle of the park

Miz is talkin' about the Coppa match, so your irony failed.

I do agree Carlo needs a change in approach, to your surprise.
But now that you mention Gourcuff...c'mm y'all overblow that guy so much I cannot belive. Poor Yohann, he won't come, nah nah, Carlo's so stupid not to use the Zidane he has and so on. Ancelotti had Zidane in his team, I suppose he would recognize a similar player instantly. I'm not saying Yohann isn't very good in form lately, but...we're acting like he's the soon to be footballer of the century who just has to blinck and there you go - Real, Manchester, Arsenal, Inter,...they all want him. Only stupid Milan not. We found him. We signed him.

Do you think they're gonna start?

Of course not. Emerson will...

yeah...

I think kurt said it best yesterday. It's like he's unwilling to admit he's wrong, therefore he'l continue to insist on it even if it's more then clear that no matter how many times he makes the attempt he'll fail or one of the star players will bail him out (Kaka, Ronnie, Pato)


Pirlo is really off form atm, he will regain that back with the more matches he plays. And Pirlo's passes over to Pato were the only thing going for us yesterday until Carlo put in Pippo instead of Sheva, someone that scored probabley half of his goals whit Milan while running onto Pirlo's long balls through the middle and slotting them in

I understand what you say but we agree that he's pretty good. The problem is Ancelloti ... he has to change his approach and he has to change the list of favorite players. Emerson makes me sick!!! He's the new Brocchi

Man, the team was really awful yesterday !! I fell asleep somewhere in the middle of the match ... And the result just makes my week so great

Luckily, Milan are not too far away from the top (joint 2nd with Juve and 6 points off the top) and I believe its still early to judge. Milan have Catania then Juve then Udine in Serie A before the break ... And I'm waiting for a reaction from the team against Catania !



Forza Milan

We actually have Catania, Juve, Udinese, Roma, Fiorentina - not necessarily in that order.

Atleast we have the winter break before Roma and Fiorentina, because that's a brutal list of fixtures to have within the time span of just 5 weeks

You forgot to include being a thug who fouls the nearest opponent upon entering the game faster than it takes you and I to break wind.

^^

*sigh* mean...very mean...

Never thought I'd see the day when I offended a pirate.

Ancelotti must go, if only for one simple reason. There is no work rate discipline/competition for certain players (e.g. Pirlo, Seedorf). I am not here to argue Ancelotti's tactics/formations. He has proven through various trophies that he is a very intelligent coach that can take over the reigns at any other powerhouse club. Indeed, his Xmas tree formation may or may not work anymore, but it doesn't matter if there is no competition for every spot on the roster. That is the only way you can motivate top performance from each player.

Similarly, Seedorf and Pirlo may or may not be world class players anymore. We really won't find out with Ancelotti coaching the team. Why? Because they will never feel compelled to give it their best effort on the field, because they are "guaranteed" spots. Without their consistent best effort, we cannot judge whether they are still world class.

Therefore, the first thing that must happen is that the coach must be changed. Again, Ancelotti may or may not be the best coach in the world, but he has lost his effectiveness at Milan, and Milan need a new coach with no personal bias for the starting XI. A new coach has no "decade long" personal relationship with any one player, and therefore is under no pressure to play underperforming players.

This way, there will be competition for every spot, and every player will give their 100% effort. And this way, Milan will play their best. And only then will we find out if Milan at their current possible best is enough to win the Scudetto.

I predict that it won't be. The second thing that must be changed are two new centerbacks. With such a poor defense, we need 2 DMs always on the pitch. With 2 DMs, that leaves only 4 attacking players. Kaka, Dinho, and Pato should always be on the pitch, leaving room for only 1 more player (currently either Seedorf, Pirlo, or Borriello). Ideally, with 2 world class CBs, we could play with 1 DM, allowing for a second forward and another creative midfielder. Milan can only be a real attacking threat (e.g. 4-0 wins, as opposed to 1-0) with such a setup, though can use 2 DMs to win 1-0 games against stronger teams.

Regardless, the point is that no changes can be made in midfield or attack without bringing in 2 world class defenders. And I repeat, first Ancelotti must be replaced. Because if not, even if 2 world class CBs arrive, he may prefer his personal relationships with current CBs. Bring in two world class CBs in January, and see if Maldini continues to play.

Believe me, I consider Maldini one of the best (if not THE best) defenders of all time, but this year he should not start over other world class CBs (he cannot keep up with fast players e.g. game against Palermo). But Ancelotti will start him over those players.

Ancelotti, you are a footballing mastermind. I appreciate fully everything you have done for this club, and you have my greatest respect. Unfortunately, you have lost your effectiveness. Though I think there are few better tacticians out there, I firmly believe that a less intelligent coach will prove to be far more effective... and that effectiveness will be far more valuable to the team.

I would love to hear your comments on my thoughts.

I forgot to state how important this "competition" concept is. Look at Mourinho's Inter. They have several players competing for every sport, so everyone (maybe other than Ibra) players his 100%. But even Ibra plays harder than he did last year. Because everyone knows that if they don't put in maximum effort, the next guy in line will start the next game. Look at Stankovich. He might not be the most talented player in the world, but he plays so hard under Mourinho that he proves to be so valuable! In the game against Juve he was MOTM by far!

Seedorf did this against ManU in the home leg of the CL semi's two years ago. He had a fantastic game, an unbelievable goal, and we demolished ManU in what was probably the best game I ever saw Milan play. Why? Every single person gave it their maximum. That's what we need every game. We will not beat Inter for the title unless we play as hard as they do. Because there roster is just as star-studded.

You'll have to give alternatives for Seedorf and Pirlo...then we can talk of competition...otherwise you have some good points.

Hypothetically, suppose you buy a player who's going to compete with Seedorf, and Seedorf steps it up. We all know that when Seedorf steps it up few people match up to his class. What then? As per common sense, you continue playing the guy on form- Clarence. So then what? What is the sub there for?

I'm not saying there is no point in your argument. But just trying to point a possible flipside. As for Ibra...do you honestly think Mourinho will even consider getting a person to compete with him? Like say a David Villa or someone? Ibra would just hand in a transfer request and Silvio would snap him up. So what Mourinho does is butter him up, and make all those comments about how he should be/will be Ballon d'Or . Different people need to be handled differently.

Like Ronaldinho. And perhaps like Seedorf, who I do believe has been pretty good this season. Competition for places is one way of getting people to play better, but not the only way, and perhaps in some cases not even the right way.

It seemed to have worked perhaps for Rino. But this seems to have left Flamini a bit in the dark.

I completely agree with your point about centre backs. Though I feel, just one would do. Kaladze is despite his 'singularities' one of the better Grade: B+ CBs out there. What he needs is a top CB like Nesta at the peak of his powers beside him. I don't think the man has the composure to lead a team out, maybe coz unlike Georgia, he feels he isn't the biggest dog in the yard for Milan.


Your argument with Seedorf and Pirlo, while not entirely without merit has the following complications. Seedorf acts as the very crucial 'junction' player. Not a 'water-carrier' like Deschamps, but a creative junction player. There is no one in the current squad who can do that. Yoann(since I know his name will crop up) isn't that. He doesn't have the vision or the complete composure to be that way. He is better off playing in a Stevie Gerrard/ Zidane kind of role. Maybe Moutinho..but I dunno.

Pirlo? Are you sure you aren't falling into the trap of thinking a player who doesn't run a million miles or do a dozen stepovers or make last gasp tackles isn't pulling his weight? Pirlo is unique. No one in the world does what he can. One of the most complete mid-fielders in the world namely Seedorf, barely filled in. His current dip in form is coz he's been out for 3 months, and needs to regain match rhythm.

I agree with rossonero80.

Great response, Jack Sparrow. Some comments below.



Given the current team, you do need that junction player between the defense and attack, as you mentioned. I would play Seedorf or Pirlo, but only one. Preferably Seedorf, since he is stronger and doesn't lose the ball as much as Pirlo (Pirlo lost the ball wayyy too much vs. Palermo).



Considering the number of games (e.g. serie a, uefa/cl, coppa italia), the need to change tactics/formations during home/away games vs strong/weak teams, substitutions, and the reality of injuries, you can certainly have 2 solid players competing for each spot. We have three solid DMs (gattuso, ambro, flamini) competing for 2 DM spots, and Emerson still plays.



That is a good point, but there are very few such comparisons. One would be Kaka. I think these people also have a good source of motivation from the media. If they play poorly, they will lose the media spotlight to someone else. No player wants to lose that spotlight. Still, you make a very good point. However, if you had a David Silva, and he was better than Ibra, and you couldn't play them together, you would keep Silva and sell Ibra. I don't think you would be harmed much here.



Agreed, as noted above. However, I think competition is the most important factor for most players.



Absolutely. He had been out of form past 2 years. This year he has been stellar, likely for this reason.



You may be right about him, but I would only feel comfortable with 1 new CB if Nesta is back to 100%. He would be the starting CB, and Kaladze could fill in during short injuries. But I fear Nesta will not return consistently again. Santacroce/Zapata or Mexes are an ideal pair considering players that "might" be able to be bought soon from their clubs.



I agree. Furthermore he has the strength to not be tackled off the ball. Yoann does not have that, either.



No, no. I hate all that fancy stuff. The issue with Pirlo is this. He is slow and weak, and since he plays in the center in front of poor CBs, he represents a huge threat defensively in a very key position. Therefore, he has to compensate for this risk with some amazing offensive qualities. When he is in form - he is without a doubt invaluable to the team and more than compensates for the defensive risk. However, if he is out of form, our attack is suffocated, and we begin eating goals. Smarter teams have traditionally focused on shutting down Pirlo instead of Kaka. Palermo did so (they didn't have to choose since Kaka was out), and it worked wonders in the first 60 minutes. The Xmas tree was created around Pirlo... and it lived and died by Pirlo's performances. Given Pirlo's poor form and inconsistency, this is now too risky a gamble.

I feel much more comfortable with Seedorf playing in that role (choosing between the lesser of two evils). If Seedorf upped his effort to 100%, he would be a great fit for that role. We have seen glimpses of this in previous games. He might not have the same vision as Pirlo, but he gives up less defensively... and that is important at the moment.

A very good point there. agreed.

That could also explain why we don't do good [result-wise, otherwise we haven't really played brilliant football this season] when he plays. the question I brought up in another thread.

Still mostly absenting myself from felicity but....

Why are people sharpening their knives for Pirlo so much? Yes, he sucked against Palermo but the guy WAS out for months. He's not match fit. I'd cut him a little slack, especially when it seems nobody has a problem giving other players who were out injured time to get match fit before stringing them up.

Because we must accept the R®eal way of management for the 21st century: first sign of weekness must mean we have to terminate the player. No matter who, no matter what he's done in the past. We just push forward.

??

all they're saying is having good cover in other positions either than the DM positions (which we have around half a dozen...) and have good competion among the players and first and form most being motivated. nothing about selling everyone and benching pirlo.

you'd swear this was our first bad game in 3 years, that carlo can do no wrong, that pirlo, seedorf, ambro ar untouchables. i mea if we're that good why have been below for so long now. suddenly theres no accountability.

actually after watching the replay of the game yesterday, i see very little difference between this perfomance and many others, except this time we missed a couple of chances and palermo finished theres. yet everyone accepts that we played poorly, and this is why we were concerned with previous performances.

Real is covered on every position?
I'm not sure.

Pirlo not yet. But we should force a few of them to retirement, right?
And yes, we should gladly release some of them as well. It's just one click! Fotball manager learned me to do that.


It wasn't. No team in the world has 3 years spent without a bad year. And the Palermo game was something special. I watched our defense and DM - never before they did such a poor job. It seemed like they met just minutes before the match started. No connection, no communication, awfull positioning.

I stand by what i've said in previous post about Pirlo..no-one in the world plays thats position as well as he does so how do you have competition for him..by all means change formations etc but if he plays it dictates the shape of the midfield and to me if he's fit he plays simple as.He is the most important player for us when he is fit and playing well we do as a team.

no they arent but we're only well covered in 2 positions, Dm and CB (most of them being mediocre except for a couple, one of them being chronically injured)

while a team like real has their cracks, they're lacking a speeding winger and a CF due to injuries and guess what thei're addressing that issue. it seems it takes us two years to realise that something is wrong.

maybe we wouldnt have this problem of having all these guys late in their career if we stopped buying over the hill players. the only one in this squad that has the divine right to keep on playing and retire when he wants is paolo and i'm fine with that that, a guy liek favalli well it's fine if he sticks around for extra cover but not for half our games, thats just too much.

this isnt a matter of having one bad season here and there, if this form continues this will be the 4th season in a row that the team has played poorly in the league.

I don't think we have played well this season. I think that the unbeaten streak was luck, and that the current win-less streak is more representative of what the team will do in the remainder of the season. We've played mostly mid- to low-table teams so far, and we have scraped by with some lucky last-minute goals and penalties. If you replayed the current season, I don't think we would have been so lucky - and we likely would have drawn or lost many of those close matches.

I am not bent on trashing Pirlo for no reason. I am just stating an obvious fact. He is a huge weakness defensively, and in a position that is important defensively if you don't have world class CBs.

Now, given what I just said, I think he would consistently (i.e. pretty much every game) have to play stellar football to justify that risk. I just don't see him performing that way consistently.


In general, I think our problems are too many at the moment. We need many changes. New, effective coach. 1 world-class CB + Nesta back consistently, or 2 world-class CBs (I prefer the latter). This will allow us to play against low-table teams with one DM (imagine gattuso and flamini each playing a half, knowing that they must expend 100% of their energy in one half) and 5 creative players (Ka-Pa-Ro + striker + midfielder). Maybe a new GK, depending on how well Abbiati continues to do (remember, Kalac did well for a period last year too, until he finally proved that he isn't that great).

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why on this forum saying 'recently when Pirlo plays Milan don't get the results' is seen as 'Pirlo is crap, he has no place in the team, we should kick him out, he doesn't have the right to take a little time to get back to 100%, etc. etc. etc.'?!?!?!?!?!?!?


This is getting ridiculous.

It's been ridiculous for months, zd. All the venom in the world can be hurled at Players Not Named Kaka or Pato or Ronaldinho. Everyone else who has an off game is evil incarnate.

Oh so we should be awarding Favalli/Puma/Pippo five year deals now? We just can't keep holding on to these players if Galliani won't acknowledge them for what they are, and get some quality players in te replace them. Pippo to me is a bonus player that when fit can be brought in to make the difference. Emerson is just here to play teacher's pet with Carlo and Favalii is like Pippo, someone reliable to do the job when we have our hands tied. But that doesn't meen we should rely on them. Not buying another CB this summer because we have a 36 year olf LB still in the team was one of the major mistakes of our transfer window. Galliani can brag all he wants about Ronne and Sheva but he made just as much mistakes as he made good moves. And I'm not even to go into the whole GK situation.

Pirlo I agree with you and Tennie. He is a unique, untouchable player in our team that even when he's playing badly we still need him, he's like Kaka. We can't expect him to come back after such a long lay-off firing on all cylinders. He needs time to get into the rythem of the game, and he is the type of player that any coach would simply make that time for. And unless we can buy Fabregas or Xavi I can't see anyone that can come close to Pirlo (and even they can't do what he can)

As for the 1 bad year in 3 you speak of that every team suffers through, I would agree with you but this has been 3 consecutive years where we have been so bad it actually hurts to watch. If it were just 1 off season then it would be ok but this is puching it. After last season one would have thought that Carlo would step up, be a man and try to rectify the situation, yet we're seeing the same old Milan of last season and the one before that, only this time we're in second place because of some lucky goals and questionable refereeing decisions. That is the only difference between this season and the last 2 we endured under Carlo.

TENNIE THIS IS SOOOOO HARSH!!!! PLEASE!

You make a couple of good points. I don't agree with all of them, but they're excellent suggestions, nonetheless. Particularly the goalkeeper part.

I also agree with you han on some points. But I don't understand why this Emerson is such a problem. The guy has been called bad names, awfull terms, he's been crucified and 80% of the posters just spit on him like he's the last player on earth. Maybe he's a joke, maybe he's bad or even not usefull any more, but god, do we need to crucify him? Do we need to exaggerate the badness of this player to the point that it becomes disgusting?

And I do find it disgusting that people just throw countersigns like "go retire" or "get away, release him". For me it's something low and very arrogant to say. Who am I to say someone should be retired? I know, I and everyone else has the right to say almost anything, but I find it so disrespectufull. And I honestly belive none of our players deserves such disrespect, starting from Kaka and Pato and finishing with Dida and Emerson. Milan is a team, and anyone should be allowed to express positive feelings and love for his milan-favorite, at least in a place called like this one.

Btw, I am not discussing Pirlo because of his performance since he returned... Of course that's too short a time since an injury to discuss a player's performance. I am discussing it because of his poor performance since after WC06 (barring some performances in CL07). He has been poor since, and I think the team benefited from his recent absence. When you play in a "live by Pirlo, die by Pirlo" fashion, you die when he performs poorly -> and that's what has happened for the past 2 seasons.