No, we'll just agree to disagree



Again, you assume that Bordeoux will stand in the way of Milan ? Well, what about this han, lets just see what happens in the summer

I'd be perfectly happy if he stayed in Bordeaux and Milan spent the 15MM on a new centerback.

Then again, I've never much liked Gourcuff. Talented? Yes. Diving, cheating little barstid? Yup.

Inzaghi dives a lot too. does that give me the right to call him a cheating bast@rd? no, I'd get smacked, literally.

We must teach Gourcuff not to dive. not sell him (or be happy with his sale) because he dived a couple of times.

Sorry but I had to let it out! you get offended when something bad is told about your favorite players. I do too.

Maybe I missed it, but I've only seen him dive once. Sure it may take off from the gloss, but that doesn't take away from his talents. I'm sure if he stayed with us (or a very big if, if he does) that's one of the first thing that he must (have) learned.

Oh, and it's too soon to say whether he'll come back or stay there. Months away to tell, really.

Yes Pippo dives. never claimed he didn't. But Pippo also puts the ball in the net with pretty good regularity and I have a lot of admiration for a guy who doesn't have the natural athleticism or skill of a Kaka but who does have extraordinary positional sense and uses that to get past defenders to score.

Gourcuff? Sorry, I just don't like him. The only dive I am willing to forgive is the one from the 2007 home game v Udinese because Billy got to take the penalty during his final game. I also suspect that he's got Gila syndrome: plays well for smaller clubs but can't handle the pressure of playing for a big club like Milan. That's not a knock on his footballing skill or Gila's - it just means that I suspect that both are better off at places that don't have the pressure that Milan does have.

No, you said Gourcuff is talented. but criticized him for his dives. right?

Pippo is talented (in what he's supposed to do) too but you forgive him for his dives because he scores goals. we're talking about morals. a diver is a diver. if one's a cheating *******, the other is too. right?

And it's perfectly alright with me that you don't like Yoann. that was not my point.

As for big game and pressure I've said my opinion before - I agree Yoann 'couldn't' handle the pressure. but I don't say Yoann 'won't' handle the pressure forever. for some players it takes time. Gila was 26yo and still couldn't cut it, while Yoann was 21 [and wasn't treated fairly if minutes played are to stand for something]. he might learn to deal with the pressure as well. talent-wise I think no one doubts Yoann.

Yoann wasn't given enough chances!

At least not as much as he deserved. Players far worse (read Brocchi, Emerson and friends) were played and started ahead of him consistently. And no, coming out in the last 10 minutes to score the winner doesn't count. Unless you're Ronaldinho or something. Even when all our creative players and their grandmothers were out injured. Even then Gorcuff couldn't start. At best played him in a crucial CL encounter where it was given he'd explode. I'd have wanted to see him come in every match at the 60th minute, to learn both Milan's game as well as it's brand of football.

Fact is we didn't treat him like a young prospect, but rather as a finished article. Same with Gila. We tried fitting them in the system, rather than fitting the system around them. Hey, they're players you've bought, why not modify and create a winning system that envelopes them? But no, we'll bend them and get them to play as we want. Who cares if they crack during the process? Who gives a funk (with a very big F) whether we'll lose millions when we try to sell them as failures to rival clubs? It wasn't Carlo's money. He didn't own the fans, and probably never cared about seeing them happy, either. At the end of the day it was him not the fans who were answerable to the management, so I can't blame him here. As long as we were winning.

But sweet mother of Jesus, suddenly we weren't! That's when things took a turn for the worse. And look where we're playing in UEFA? Clubs I've never heard of before, and probably not will after the year's out, while Aalbork BK, Steaua, Basel, Anorthosis, Panathinaikos, CFR Cluj, Zenit and BATE are plundering the Champions League. I'm not saying it was all down to one individual, it can't be. But where was the earth-shattering signing that Carlo promised that could not be named? Ba? Who denied Frank Ribbery? Who wanted a shot bullet in Emerson? Who didn't sign Buffon, when we could have sold Abbiati to Juve and got both him and Dida to play as first and second choice? Very long story, and perhaps we'll never know, but hey I still didn't get why Gorcuff had to warm the bench with Emerson and Brocchi playing ahead of him?

Disclaimer: This post certainly isn't meant for any one, and certainly not for any member here. Well maybe it is meant for the management, but I'm not sure they'll read it. Their English sucks, anyway.

Oh COME ON!!! Don't tell me you're going to start getting on my back about my spelling mistakes also!!!

If Bordeoux have an option to buy in the contract then they do have the upper hand on Milan. Galliani basically admitted this himself


What type of CB could we buy with that ammount? A mediocre one. I would much rather get Yoann back ASAP. And buy a real top quality CB. Mexes or Zapata would be appreciated Fester

As for the Yoann comment. Tennie, as zd said you support one of the biggest diving, cheaters in football. Probably one of the most hated players around and you can't take Yoann for diving a couple of times and taking corners out of the angle?

Diving is part of the game, every player does it. Even the most gracious ones do it from time to time. Look at Gerrard for example, the English don't care that he's a diving w*****. All they see is the insperational captain who inspired Liverpool to win the CL in 05, but no one really cares that he won the equalising penalty by diving. That's the way it is I'm afraid.


I can't see how this theory about Yoann being a choker is relevant when it comes to playing for big teams since he was barely given a decent shot at Milan. He played great on his debut, not just because he scored a goal but his overall game was amazing and you could see the potential there, Just because he was never given a chance to continue to build on that performance does not mean he's a choker.

I disagree that Yoann wasn't given a chance at Milan. I think he was and that he didn't show whatever it was he needed to show to stay and to play more. You guys like the player and that's fine; I happen not to.

I don't count being given 10 minutes every month as a decent chance for such a young player playing in a foreign country that needs to adapt as a decent chance.

I'm not trying to change your oppinion on the kid, you don't like him, that's your oppinion, everyone has his certain favourites and others that they dislike. But saying that he was given a decent chance at Milan when it is clear that he wasn't isn't really fair.

He started both games I went to in 06-07.

He started 9 Serie A games in 06-07, 4 in 07-08. 9 games is okay, but 4 was too little, especially with Brocchi getting starts =/

We can get more information if someone can find the required stats, on how many matches he started, in how many he came as a substitute, and the total time played as both. Maybe someone like zd or Kurt dig something up. Or alternatively we can ask him via his Myspace page:

Yohann Gourcuff @ Myspace.com

I'm not sure it matters that much, acid. There seem to be a lot of people who think Gourcuff never got a chance at Milan; others (like me) think he did. I don't think either side is likely to change their opinion.

No worries. We have a lot of time to decide whether he should come back or not, the season's just started. I'm sure the management too is looking at it. I don't normally like French players, and the ones I do like can be counted on one hand, and still there'd be fingers to spare.

And for all it matters, Gourcuff himself might not want to come back. Who knows what the future holds? Maybe he likes it more there in France, or find himself more suited to that type of game. You're right it doesn't matter much. My French friends, however, seem to think Yohann finally came back to his senses when he went on loan this season.

I already posted about it:



The stats are all there on acmilan.com. A young player needs to play consistently to perform consistently... Pato too has had quite a few bad games but he is young and he will improve... if he was judged solely based on those performances he would also be on loan somewhere now...
If after seeing that stats you still believe he was trusted as much as he should have been then well... it's because you cannot admit Ancelotti made a mistake in this case.

That's quite a job, dst. Thanks, I was looking for these stats!

What dst said. The minutes and starts he was given are ridiculous, instead of giving him a consistant run after that Celtic game he leaves him on the bench for a month an a half and expects him to light up the show in the quarter finals against Bayern. Like I previously said, it's like Carlo is waiting for him to fail so he can pounce and say that he's not ready to get more playing time. Meanwhile a half-player like Brocchi probably played 3 times as much in that season alone

Gourcuff is the best. Everyone shut up!

I couldn't find his 2006-07 stats (ESPN's not 100% accurate) but here's the stats of 2007-08 (a season Pirlo and Kaka were way below their standards, let alone Yoann) from acmilan.com. terrible substitutions and playing chances to say the least.

Carlo thinks he's SAF (wants to continue 7 more years), he's not. he thinks he's Arsene Wenger too (thinks he knows what he's doing with youngsters). well, he's not!

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?s...862&st=420#



Giving a young player enough chances is one thing, giving him those chances in the right place and at the right time is another... see dst's post (I'm not expecting you to change your mind though)

The most mature post on the subject. Well done Max

You know it. Anyone who doesn't like Gourcuff is a communist.

Damn. Should've hidden the copy of Das Kapital sooner!

By the way, I can't blieve you said this...

Fishdoll made me wash my mouth out with soap.

There can only be one Max.

Gourcoff is a great talent, but he is still all potential. I have seen him play for France and I like his style, but I need to see more goals/wins before I render a final judgment.

^^ Would you like some hot sauce with that too?