[han2503]

The names we're linked with already sound depressing to say the least. Let's see what happens

[Fillipo Simone]

Yes, I think you have.

Firstly, Kaka and Shevchenko are completely different types of failures. Both past their primes, they failed to adapt to a completely new league. But Sheva and Ricky were great players.

Jackson and Kondogbia were overpriced gambles. If you ask me personally, every player (striker) who's past 26 or 27 and who's only achievement is a few good seasons with Porto is suspicious at best. If you take a look at his career it certainly doesn't validate the price tag. Kondogbia is still a question mark, but I think he's a failed acquisition as well. Anyway, my point is, had we signed him and Martinez the forum here (bar han and a few others) would be jubilant, no doubt. We'd mark the summer market as a success.

Who would have thought that our second choices would turn out much much better?

[X-Offender]

Yes, I think you have.

Firstly, Kaka and Shevchenko are completely different types of failures. Both past their primes, they failed to adapt to a completely new league. But Sheva and Ricky were great players.

Jackson and Kondogbia were overpriced gambles. If you ask me personally, every player (striker) who's past 26 or 27 and who's only achievement is a few good seasons with Porto is suspicious at best. If you take a look at his career it certainly doesn't validate the price tag. Kondogbia is still a question mark, but I think he's a failed acquisition as well. Anyway, my point is, had we signed him and Martinez the forum here (bar han and a few others) would be jubilant, no doubt. We'd mark the summer market as a success.

Who would have thought that our second choices would turn out much much better?

Yes, OK, but my point was that any signing can turn into a failure or otherwise. Just like Martinez' only achievements were with Porto, Bacca's only achievements were with Sevilla. That's hardly an improvement, yet he turned into the better signing in the end. As Han said, we just got lucky, but our initial complaints were legitimate.

[Fillipo Simone]

Yes, OK, but my point was that any signing can turn into a failure or otherwise. Just like Martinez' only achievements were with Porto, Bacca's only achievements were with Sevilla. That's hardly an improvement, yet he turned into the better signing in the end. As Han said, we just got lucky, but our initial complaints were legitimate.

?

A good signing is a good one, a bad is a bad one. What are you talking about? I mean if you sign someone for 40M and he turns out useless and in adaptable, it's a pretty bad one. If you say, sign a free player or a Sheva who fails to link up with you team, it's not that bad.

Sure, but the thing with Bacca is, he performed with Sevilla for 2 years constantly, whereas Martinez always had ups and downs.

What remains to be said is, people jump the gun here. I remember this forum went crazy for not seeing and signing the next Vieira in Kondogbia. Half of you here were ready to give what Inter decided to give. Yet now you come up with excuses like "any signing can turn into a failure" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[X-Offender]

A good signing is a good one, a bad is a bad one. What are you talking about? I mean if you sign someone for 40M and he turns out useless and in adaptable, it's a pretty bad one. If you say, sign a free player or a Sheva who fails to link up with you team, it's not that bad.

What?? It's twice as bad if you sign a Sheva who fails, because you're signing a champion, a sure firearm that's supposed to deliver.

With someone like Kondogbia it's always a gamble. You're signing someone with potential but that might not fulfill expectations. Granted, it's a gamble worth taking, but still a gamble. So, the fact that he failed to deliver is within the risk associated with making such a signing.

But when Chelsea signed Sheva or Madrid signed Kaká, they got screwed big time. That's the difference between signing champions and signing young prospects with potential. The former have no excuses because they're established world class players. Failing to link up with the team? That's a petty, petty justification.

Sure, but the thing with Bacca is, he performed with Sevilla for 2 years constantly, whereas Martinez always had ups and downs.

Really now?

Last two seasons of Martinez with Porto:

51 games - 29 goals
41 games - 32 goals

Last two season of Bacca with Sevilla:

52 games - 21 goals
56 games - 28 goals

Well...

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Feb 14 2016, 04:15 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

What?? It's twice as bad if you sign a Sheva who fails, because you're signing a champion, a sure firearm that's supposed to deliver.

With someone like Kondogbia it's always a gamble. You're signing someone with potential but that might not fulfill expectations. Granted, it's a gamble worth taking, but still a gamble. So, the fact that he failed to deliver is within the risk associated with making such a signing.

But when Chelsea signed Sheva or Madrid signed Kaká, they got screwed big time. That's the difference between signing champions and signing young prospects with potential. The former have no excuses because they're established world class players. Failing to link up with the team? That's a petty, petty justification.



Really now?

Last two seasons of Martinez with Porto:

51 games - 29 goals
41 games - 32 goals

Last two season of Bacca with Sevilla:

52 games - 21 goals
56 games - 28 goals

Well...

Somehow I was under the impression Bacca did better. My bad.

You say its a petty justification, but reducing Kondogbia's failure to just "not linking up" with the team is a clear understatement. Man, the player looks completely useless, no speed, no precision, no forward-going thinking. Sure, with better linkup it could be argued some of his negative aspects would vanish or shrink. But still....

Anyway, I'm only trying to establish some responsibility and fairness. You guys thought that getting Martinez and Kondogbia would be the right way, many of you were prepared to label the summer transfer campaign a success with those two and some other adds. Now that both turned up pretty disastrous, you act like it's nothing and move on.