[dst]

He's been top scorer since he was the focal point. Before that Eto'o was the focal point and top scorer and Messi was wide. It's not all too surprising as to why. They scored more as a team with Eto'o top scorer than most their years with Messi as top scorer. I think they had more players capable of scoring back then. Nowadays who would you call a serious goal threat? Alexis? Pedro? Fabregas? Villa? They're okay scorers, nothing more. Not saying he's bad at all, far from it. I just think Ronaldo is the better overall player.

Yeah I'm talking about the post-Eto'o era. The players you mention there have not been able to take advantage of their teammates' quality as Messi has. My point is, it's not like Messi is just a very good player that looks as good as he does because of his teammates cause everyone would do that. He gets help obviously but what he does with it is still extraordinary. To me Messi is better but I don't think they are so far apart anyway.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

By the way, this notion that Messi benefits from Barcelona's other great players is of course true but I think it's given too much weight cause if those other players could help their teammates that much Messi would not be the only constant Barcelona goal scorer all these years.

By who - the few who suggest this? The Messi fanboys ignore it all the time and just come up with 'well, he doesn't have to leave one of the supposed greatest teams ever if he doesn't want to, he would do it in any league anyway because Ronaldo did it and that logic couldn't be flawed, at all, there, I told you'.

Yet anyone mentions the NT and it's, trust 'insert name here' to bring this up, you think he's bad because he doesn't really perform for Argentina, even though it's the only other side anyone has seen Messi play for other than Barca.

You can debate all you like about Ronaldo v Messi, but the shear notion that people are passing across as fact that Messi is guaranteed to be as good or better than Ronaldo in England simply because he was is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Before this gets span, I've never guaranteed Messi would be crap in another league, I would like to see him play for another club/league before I harp on about being the greatest ever. If we're talking solely La Liga I agree Messi probably has the edge (I'd say Barca as a whole are better and obviously that's down to Messi too, but take Lionel/CR7 out of each team I'd still say Barca have the edge) but for me Ronaldo comes back in the equation overall because of playing in multiple countries, and doing it to a crazy level in both leagues.

Think I can back down and agree it's those 2 and then the rest by a mile, but I can't agree it's Messi, then a mile, then Ronaldo, then a mile, then others - not at all, not until I see Messi go to another team and bang in 30/40 goals a year too.

[kurtsimonw]

Close space = Messi ineffective. His lack of ability to hit it from range and cause trouble is yet another edege CR7 has. He'd have hit rockets and caused havok with the rebounds that the keeper couldn't hold all day tonight.

[dst]

Think I can back down and agree it's those 2 and then the rest by a mile, but I can't agree it's Messi, then a mile, then Ronaldo, then a mile, then others - not at all, not until I see Messi go to another team and bang in 30/40 goals a year too.

I can't agree it's a mile between them either. It's very close.

Close space = Messi ineffective. His lack of ability to hit it from range and cause trouble is yet another edege CR7 has. He'd have hit rockets and caused havok with the rebounds that the keeper couldn't hold all day tonight.

I think Messi is better than CR in closed spaces cause he can dribble through them. He did not show up tonight. But CR needs more space than Messi to operate I think.

[kurtsimonw]

I think Messi is better than CR in closed spaces cause he can dribble through them. He did not show up tonight. But CR needs more space than Messi to operate I think.

Agreed. But that's not what I'm saying. Do you think a Madrid side with Ronaldo would ever have so few attempts? We played our 18 yard box tonight, Ronaldo would've hit them from 30/35 yards.

[Zed.D]

There's still another game to play. why do you like so much to jump at conclusions?

[kurtsimonw]

There's still another game to play. why do you like so much to jump at conclusions?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Milan Are Brilli...]

There's still another game to play. why do you like so much to jump at conclusions?

Urgh, I'm pretty sure this debate isn't based on last night, seeing as it got re-initiated a good few days ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[dst]

Agreed. But that's not what I'm saying. Do you think a Madrid side with Ronaldo would ever have so few attempts? We played our 18 yard box tonight, Ronaldo would've hit them from 30/35 yards.

Ah yeah I get what you're saying now. Most probably CR would have managed to take at least one of those shots, it is a weapon that Messi does not possess.

[kurtsimonw]

Urgh, I'm pretty sure this debate isn't based on last night, seeing as it got re-initiated a good few days ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Even if it was, to say it's jumping to a conclusion early is silly. Both players have 400+ games left in their career, so surely it'd be too early to say anything about either of them on that logic.

[kurtsimonw]

Good game from Kaka' tonight in what was basically a Madrid reserves team. Scored a nice goal from outside the box, then created the winner with a superb ball into Ronaldo (he played it to Higuain for a tap-in).

Higuain's goal was his 100th La Liga goal, in his 179th game. Not bad.

[acid911]

Ha, came here to say just this, Kurt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) Kaka really turned it up in this match!

[Jack Bauer]

Only his fourth league start of the season. I wonder how much he earns if you calculate his salary per games he played and compare it to other players.

This post has been edited by Jack Bauer: Feb 23 2013, 10:08 PM

[acid911]

Don't know about that but this was his first league goal for Madrid this season. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's worth like what 8-10 million if he does not score another one. And that too without taxes. Kaka is noway near the player of old, but Mourinho too can be more than handful sometimes.

[Zed.D]

Oh god... these la liga teams and their defending.... with our game with them still fresh in my mind, I can see the different between Barca vs good defense and Barca vs non-existent defense better now.

Laughable defending from Sevilla on both goals.