[mishie]

Berba would certainly have to up his work rate for my liking. Can be really lazy when not in the mood and at 31 not sure that's the right direction to be heading

[han2503]

Like I said in a previous post just because I'm not ranting and raving doesn't mean I find the current situation tolerable. Yes mistakes have been made and no doubt will be again, I also accept that the professionalism of the club has slipped in recent years. Perhaps what I'm trying to say whatever solution comes to mind its not going to be a quick fix. Patience in needed but that in all walks of life seems to a commodity in very short supply

Imo had only Ibra been sold than the fans would have accepted it. As he's just someone who will bring us success in the now, certainly not someone for the future. And had the management been transparent and showed a clear plan for the future rebuilding of this team, than fans would have been disappointed a bit at losing a player like Ibra but also a bit excited at what the future might hold for the club. This at least would have been how I felt. But selling Silva is just the complete opposite of showing the fans that you have a clear plan for moving ahead and thinking of a successful Milan for the future. We have (had) 3 players that the club should absolutely keep as foundations for this team, those 3 are Silva forst and foremost, Pato and to an extent Boateng. And what do they do? They sell our most important player, not just for the now of the team but for the future as well. And for what 40m? When clubs are getting those exact sums for average players. Real bought Pepe back in the day for some ridiculous fee and we go and sell Silva for 40m.

Selling Silva was a clear statement of intent from our management, and sadly that statement only showed that the management have no idea as to how they should go about getting out of the massive sh!t hole they've dug themselves in. That is why the majority of fans are up in arms atm, because selling Silva shows how much of a non-plan the management currently have.

And R7 said that selling Silva and Ibra is for the good of the club's future, but I can't stand here and take such BS lightly, when we all know, even R7 himself that selling Silva is the same thing as selling Sheva and Kaka in the past. It's not for the future, but for the now, as thing in the future will continue to spiral with the way things are going at this club.

Like I said, Ibra I could have begrudgingly understood as being something that had to be done for the good of this club's future, but Silva? No f@cking way is that something that in any way, shape or form can be considered as being for the good of this team's future.

[han2503]

I wouldn't mind berbatov to be honest. He'd cost us around 5m too, which is a good deal for a player of his level.

If we bring in Kaka, Poli, Berbatov and Rolando. I think it'll be a good start.

As I said, he's lazy, and like a Dzeko-Pato partnership, the same thing could be said about a Berba-Pato partnership. I can't see it working without top class service for the 2, and Kaka is certainly nowhere near what he used to be for us.

As for Poli, he's really not the player I'd want for us. He's a poor man's Montolivo if you ask me. So that's not saying much. I'd rather we try for Sahin or Strootman. I'm sure Galliani could scrounge around for some cash to get either one, considering we're about to get nearly 70m in the coffers.

So that's 4 new players, which all should be on around 2 to 3m each. Which if you consider it, would collectively earn around what Ibra alone does or slightly more.

Berba would certainly have to up his work rate for my liking. Can be really lazy when not in the mood and at 31 not sure that's the right direction to be heading

Agreed.

We have no one in our forward line that works hard now, assuming Robinho is also on his way, can you imagine him and Cassano or Pato? No one willing to run back...

I personally prefer Tevez if it came down to it at this point. Maybe he'll be a last minute signing we could get on the cheap, who knows

[Bluesummers]

-We are after Serdar Taci, we have asked stuttgart about a loan + buy deal.


-After a meeting with Rafael's agent, Santos has given Rafa's agent the green light to begin negotiations. Rafael is excited at the prospect of moving to Milan and Santos wants Robinho at all costs.


(IMG:http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rafael-pranzo-11.jpg)

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jul 17 2012, 01:15 PM

[han2503]

-We are after Serdar Taci, we have asked stuttgart about a loan + buy deal.


-After a meeting with Rafael's agent, Santos has given Rafa's agent the green light to begin negotiations. Rafael is excited at the prospect of moving to Milan and Santos wants Robinho at all costs.


(IMG:http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rafael-pranzo-11.jpg)

I just simply cannot get my head around the fact that we want another keeper. Including him in the deal will surely lower Robinho's value...

Question: If we loaned out Gabriel (is that the name of the Brazilian keeper we already baught), would that open up the non-EU spot we already wasted on him? Or is that null and void now that we registered him?

[Jack Sparrow]

Cross posting my interview of Rino:

Gennaro Gattuso expects Milan boss Massimiliano Allegri to be having sleepless nights after the club’s high profile departures this summer.

The Rossoneri have waved goodbye to a host of their veteran players, while they’ve decided to sell Thiago Silva and Zlatan Ibrahimovic to Paris Saint-Germain.

“Without Thiago Silva and Alessandro Nesta, Milan have no reference points in defence,” Gattuso told the Gazzetta dello Sport.

“Ibrahimovic, meanwhile, wins you 10 games a season on his own. If I was Allegri, I’d have trouble sleeping.”

Gattuso himself was one of numerous older players to leave when their contracts expired at the end of June.

“The club wanted to keep me, but Allegri didn’t want me anymore.

“When someone like a Coach makes you understand that he’d like you as a director or someone to help him in the changing room then it is time to go.

“Time to shake hands without feeling any resentment and without holding a grudge. I’m a very proud person.

“If Nesta and I made this choice, then it’s because we felt that Allegri no longer wanted us.”

Fans are unhappy with the club’s strategy, but the 2006 World Cup winner has admitted that these are tough economical times.



“You can’t criticise President Silvio Berlusconi after what he has done for the last 26 years, but there is a need to be clear and tell people how things are.

“Sacrifices are being made for two-three years and then there will be a return to spending. If people are losing their jobs then there isn’t the need to spend money on a football club.

“Milan can’t play in the Champions League to just participate. To see such a re-shaping after so many years is a real shock.”

Nevertheless, the former Rangers player believes that the Rossoneri could learn from what champions Juventus did last term.

“Milan’s aim for next season could be to fight and imitate Juve last year. It was a team built around two champions in Gigi Buffon and Andrea Pirlo – and then you had the others who fought so hard that they vomited. You can see that boss Antonio Conte is behind them.

“Conte loves football and he was like a cat stuck to your balls as a player. When we faced Juve, everybody was talking about Edgar Davids, but it was Conte who kept on running and who never gave up.”

Gattuso is now plying his trade in Switzerland with FC Sion after he rejected numerous offers from other Italian clubs.

“The Milan shirt was stitched to me,” he added. “I miss Milan. I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t admit it, but I’m happy with the choice that I made because here at Sion you really need to fight and work hard.

“I have started again here. I carry my own bag, I clean my own boots and I change my own studs. I have to think about the small things, like a bricklayer who goes to work.

“If I forget something then I can only get mad with myself and if you tape up your ankle then you are looked at funny – because tape costs money.”

Great interview. I loved the bolded parts, and pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole thing.

[William405]

I just simply cannot get my head around the fact that we want another keeper. Including him in the deal will surely lower Robinho's value...

Question: If we loaned out Gabriel (is that the name of the Brazilian keeper we already baught), would that open up the non-EU spot we already wasted on him? Or is that null and void now that we registered him?

I'm not sure we wasted that non-EU spot on him...

Btw,getting Rafael would surely mean Amelia heading on his way out..maybe to Roma,who knows.

[Fillipo Simone]

Roma? Why Roma? They've got Steckelenburg and Lobont.

[Rossoneri7]

@Zed

> Mandadori fine:
o Before you comment about the massive fine that Mandadori received, you have to understand the structure of Fininvest. In the sense that, there are no profits being routed to Fininvest from Milan Group. It is the opposite. In fact, Marina Berlusconi always did state that Milan was not a profit center for Fininvest. If anything, the sale of Zlatan and Silva would go to cover the annualized losses in excess of 60MM.
o The Mondadori fine was already compensated for, as Fininvest had taken a provision against it .. Or that is what I recall of the article I read about a while ago. Do you know what a provision is?

> European Elite:
o United, Real, and Barca are far ahead of Juve and inter as well. They have a competitive edge in terms of taxation, stadium income, commercial income, sponsorship deals, and tv coverage income to name a few; hence they can afford to attract the bigger names. In Italy, big players don’t come here as they used to; players like Pastore, Sanchez, Silva, and Ibrahimovic left Serie A in the last two seasons. Heck no Italian club could afford the new youngster from Pescara? Things have changed, you don’t have to accept it, but don’t hold your breath for the Milan of the early 90’s to be back at the same time.
o True we couldn’t compete with United and the likes before FFP (hence why much of my praise goes to Silvio), but now with the FFP we can only spend in the transfer window if we have profit. We implemented a salary cap, the seriousness of that salary cap is in the sale of Silva and Zlatan.
o Juventus had been rebuilding for the FFP since they came back to Serie A. They had Buffon and ADP as star players, only to start off with. Hence Vidal’s alleged transfer to PSG was not refused because the offer was 40MM+, but because it was far less than what Juventus value the player in.

> FFP Compliant:
o FFP compliance is not a theory. It is mandatory to participate in the CL/EL. The fact that Milan is taking this matter seriously and rebuilding is a sign that the management is planning for the future. PLEASE NOTE FFP WILL LAUNCH FULLY by 2015.
o Being FFP compliant means that Milan Group has to operate within its means, hence it is perfectly logical that Silva and Zlatan are sold. Sentimentally I would like to pull out my hair, but logically I know that such a sale is to rebuild Milan for a future under FFP.
o Other clubs that don’t care about FFP are either FFP compliant already or do not participate in UEFA competitions.

> Milan Group Budget:
o The 170M saved on Silva/Zlatan’s respective contracts? That amount is not a cash item, it is the opportunity cost of keeping Silva and Ibrahimovic. In which case the club took off that amount from the wage bill for the tenor of their contracts. So, accounting wise, how is it going straight to Fininvest’s bank account?
o No one is lying. These are shareholders, and they take care of their business. That is all there is too it. Some are like the QIA and Al-Nuhayan who flash checks of 100MM for Kaka, and some are more shrewd in that they get Zlatan for 20MM.

[Zed.D]

“If Nesta and I made this choice, then it’s because we felt that Allegri no longer wanted us.”

Allegri didn't want Nesta?? OK just because he's Gattuso doesn't mean I'll take everything he says for granted.. Nesta clearly stated that his body won't allow him to play at such level and that's why he chose not to renew.

Rino should speak for himself.

@ Han

I can see why you're pissed off at our new fetish for young Brazilian GKs, but Rafael looks so good, I wouldn't mind him at Milan one bit.

[mishie]

@Zed

> Mandadori fine:
o Before you comment about the massive fine that Mandadori received, you have to understand the structure of Fininvest. In the sense that, there are no profits being routed to Fininvest from Milan Group. It is the opposite. In fact, Marina Berlusconi always did state that Milan was not a profit center for Fininvest. If anything, the sale of Zlatan and Silva would go to cover the annualized losses in excess of 60MM.
o The Mondadori fine was already compensated for, as Fininvest had taken a provision against it .. Or that is what I recall of the article I read about a while ago. Do you know what a provision is?

> European Elite:
o United, Real, and Barca are far ahead of Juve and inter as well. They have a competitive edge in terms of taxation, stadium income, commercial income, sponsorship deals, and tv coverage income to name a few; hence they can afford to attract the bigger names. In Italy, big players don’t come here as they used to; players like Pastore, Sanchez, Silva, and Ibrahimovic left Serie A in the last two seasons. Heck no Italian club could afford the new youngster from Pescara? Things have changed, you don’t have to accept it, but don’t hold your breath for the Milan of the early 90’s to be back at the same time.
o True we couldn’t compete with United and the likes before FFP (hence why much of my praise goes to Silvio), but now with the FFP we can only spend in the transfer window if we have profit. We implemented a salary cap, the seriousness of that salary cap is in the sale of Silva and Zlatan.
o Juventus had been rebuilding for the FFP since they came back to Serie A. They had Buffon and ADP as star players, only to start off with. Hence Vidal’s alleged transfer to PSG was not refused because the offer was 40MM+, but because it was far less than what Juventus value the player in.

> FFP Compliant:
o FFP compliance is not a theory. It is mandatory to participate in the CL/EL. The fact that Milan is taking this matter seriously and rebuilding is a sign that the management is planning for the future. PLEASE NOTE FFP WILL LAUNCH FULLY by 2015.
o Being FFP compliant means that Milan Group has to operate within its means, hence it is perfectly logical that Silva and Zlatan are sold. Sentimentally I would like to pull out my hair, but logically I know that such a sale is to rebuild Milan for a future under FFP.
o Other clubs that don’t care about FFP are either FFP compliant already or do not participate in UEFA competitions.

> Milan Group Budget:
o The 170M saved on Silva/Zlatan’s respective contracts? That amount is not a cash item, it is the opportunity cost of keeping Silva and Ibrahimovic. In which case the club took off that amount from the wage bill for the tenor of their contracts. So, accounting wise, how is it going straight to Fininvest’s bank account?
o No one is lying. These are shareholders, and they take care of their business. That is all there is too it. Some are like the QIA and Al-Nuhayan who flash checks of 100MM for Kaka, and some are more shrewd in that they get Zlatan for 20MM.

Now thats a post of true epic sense and superbly put! Forza R7

[William405]

Allegri didn't want Nesta?? OK just because he's Gattuso doesn't mean I'll take everything he says for granted.. Nesta clearly stated that his body won't allow him to play at such level and that's why he chose not to renew.

Rino should speak for himself.

@ Han

I can see why you're pissed off at our new fetish for young Brazilian GKs, but Rafael looks so good, I wouldn't mind him at Milan one bit.

Well maybe nesta didn't want to put the blame on the coach.

[kurtsimonw]

Football is not a business where you can make a profit in.

Pretty much.

[Dracoris]

The Santos directors are in Via Turati right now. My twitter source seems to think they are presenting the offer for Robinho.

Hopefully it includes Ganso and not Rafael although it would be really cool to have a player with the same name as a ninja turtle but then again we already had a Leonardo and that hasn't worked out so far.

[Zed.D]

> Mandadori fine:
o Before you comment about the massive fine that Mandadori received, you have to understand the structure of Fininvest. In the sense that, there are no profits being routed to Fininvest from Milan Group. It is the opposite. In fact, Marina Berlusconi always did state that Milan was not a profit center for Fininvest. If anything, the sale of Zlatan and Silva would go to cover the annualized losses in excess of 60MM.

Then how do you explain this

Belusconi: it [the Mondadori fine] brought my family and I in difficulty. It made it difficult for us to support the revenue and expenditure of Milan.

Straight and fresh from the horse's mouth.

Clearly the Mondadori fine must have affected Milan even if it only meant Silvio would not cover our losses out of his pocket anymore. in fact that's what Galliani said last month after we rejected PSG's offer for Silva. he said "the money we will lose by not selling Silva will pumped back to the club by Berlusconi" (act of heroism). what prevented Silvio from doing it if it wasn't impossible due to FFP? certainly the Mondadori fine.

o The Mondadori fine was already compensated for, as Fininvest had taken a provision against it .. Or that is what I recall of the article I read about a while ago. Do you know what a provision is?

No I don't, explain what Finnivest did.

> European Elite:
o United, Real, and Barca are far ahead of Juve and inter as well. They have a competitive edge in terms of taxation, stadium income, commercial income, sponsorship deals, and tv coverage income to name a few; hence they can afford to attract the bigger names. In Italy, big players don't come here as they used to; players like Pastore, Sanchez, Silva, and Ibrahimovic left Serie A in the last two seasons. Heck no Italian club could afford the new youngster from Pescara? Things have changed, you don't have to accept it, but don't hold your breath for the Milan of the early 90's to be back at the same time.

It's not the question of "attracting big names" though. it's a question of keeping hold of the ones you have. yes Inter and Juve are behind other league's elite as well but compared to us they seem to be in a more comfortable position, financially speaking. that's what makes me wonder if it's just FFP that's causing this mess at Milan. it's only logical if I ask myself that.

You can't seriously compare the clubs from which Sanchez and Pastore moved away to Zlatan and Silva's Milan. I mean, Udinese.. Palermo? those kinds of clubs have always lost their stars to bigger clubs inside or outside of Italy. but why Milan should sink that low. I'm not not deluded, I don't expect Milan to be back to its glorious early 90's days, I'm talking about holding on to our only great defender left, for god's sake!

o True we couldn't compete with United and the likes before FFP (hence why much of my praise goes to Silvio), but now with the FFP we can only spend in the transfer window if we have profit. We implemented a salary cap, the seriousness of that salary cap is in the sale of Silva and Zlatan.

I got a question for you, if we were so serious about FFP (or the salary cap), why did we sign Zlatan on a 9m/year contract in the first place? isn't that bad management?

And what is this big deal you're making out of Silva's wages? he earned 4m. the best defender in the world earned as much as Rino Gattuso or Robinho, less than Mathieu Flamini, etc. etc. If we wanted to be careful with our wage bill, there was about a complete XI that should've been taken off it before Silva. it's good to be serious about the salaries and all that, but when I look at our renewals/signings since 2007, I can't say I'm convinced we moved in the right direction or were being "serious". if anything we seemed to be happy to offer over the hill veterans big contract extensions. how do you expect fans to see these things and not to react? we got serious with the wrong player. I'm only talking about Silva. selling Zlatan and taking him off the wage bill was always going to be a smart move. Silva, no matter how I look at it, wasn't.

o Juventus had been rebuilding for the FFP since they came back to Serie A. They had Buffon and ADP as star players, only to start off with. Hence Vidal's alleged transfer to PSG was not refused because the offer was 40MM+, but because it was far less than what Juventus value the player in.

I didn't know FFP existed back in 2007 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) but if you're implying they have proper managers, I agree. the day they started building Juventus Arena I could say they were being serious, unlike us and Berlu's sentimental comments about deserting San Siro.

> FFP Compliant:
o FFP compliance is not a theory. It is mandatory to participate in the CL/EL. The fact that Milan is taking this matter seriously and rebuilding is a sign that the management is planning for the future. PLEASE NOTE FFP WILL LAUNCH FULLY by 2015.
o Being FFP compliant means that Milan Group has to operate within its means, hence it is perfectly logical that Silva and Zlatan are sold. Sentimentally I would like to pull out my hair, but logically I know that such a sale is to rebuild Milan for a future under FFP.
o Other clubs that don't care about FFP are either FFP compliant already or do not participate in UEFA competitions.

Does that mean some of the English/Spanish clubs earn more than their massive debt? simple question.

I hope we're planning and building for the future, but I can't help to see these sales as Kaka to Madrid II. sold him, balanced the books, and next year went for Robinho and Zlatan... with no vision whatsoever for the future.

> Milan Group Budget:
o The 170M saved on Silva/Zlatan's respective contracts? That amount is not a cash item, it is the opportunity cost of keeping Silva and Ibrahimovic. In which case the club took off that amount from the wage bill for the tenor of their contracts. So, accounting wise, how is it going straight to Fininvest's bank account?
o No one is lying. These are shareholders, and they take care of their business. That is all there is too it. Some are like the QIA and Al-Nuhayan who flash checks of 100MM for Kaka, and some are more shrewd in that they get Zlatan for 20MM.

Firstly I didn't mean that in a literal way. not out of bank account or to bank account, what's the difference? I said they saved on 200m, did I get something wrong?

Well maybe nesta didn't want to put the blame on the coach.

Don't you think if that was Nesta's wish, then Rino should've kept his mouth closed and not dragged Nesta into it?

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Jul 17 2012, 04:03 PM