[kurtsimonw]

I think it depends on the team. I think he'l rip Uruguay and Costa Rica to pieces, not so much Italy, unless he's up against Abate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[han2503]

I think it depends on the team. I think he'l rip Uruguay and Costa Rica to pieces, not so much Italy, unless he's up against Abate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You're funny kurt...

The Italy England game will be a replica of the one played in the Euros, basically the English players running around after the ball while Italy pass it around them with their eyes close.

Sterling's kick and rush style of football might work in the EPL but it won't in the big leagues, and luckily for Italy Abate's just as fast (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[acid911]

Either way, it'll be a cracker of a game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) One of my most anticipated already in the tournament!

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Who thinks England make a game eagerly anticipating honestly? We're a worse version of the Chelsea side under Hodgson, if I wasn't English it would be the games I'd probably not really be bothered watching in the tournament being completely honest.

Sorry but our media hypes our players to ridiculous levels, the fact is outside of England no one wants them. Unless they're 32+ and want a pay day in MLS.

[acid911]

I'm in it for the media hype alone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Even though I was supporting England like crazy against Germany in the last tournament, that disallowed stinking goal ruined it.

[acid911]

Oh, by the way, the Chelsea comparison is spot on, though I think over the years, the English team has been decent enough, if not spectacular. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Objective opinion. Maybe the media talk gets into the minds of the players and management, and they just so underachieve in tournaments. But the English NT has had some good lads.

Italy vs England, for my money, will be fun to follow on the pitch and off of it, just for the clash of civilizations and gameplay philosophy alone. So glad they did not fudge it up.

[han2503]

Oh, by the way, the Chelsea comparison is spot on, though I think over the years, the English team has been decent enough, if not spectacular. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Objective opinion. Maybe the media talk gets into the minds of the players and management, and they just so underachieve in tournaments. But the English NT has had some good lads.

Italy vs England, for my money, will be fun to follow on the pitch and off of it, just for the clash of civilizations and gameplay philosophy alone. So glad they did not fudge it up.

Italy England will be huge over here, simply because of the divide in who people here in Malta tend to support. Every bar with a TV screen will be packed

As for the English team, undoubtedly they've had some good and even great players over the years, but they've rarely had any really world class players. At least not since I've been watching football and in the last few cycles of players.

Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Cole, Terry and many more names, all great players, and all of which have produced some top class stuff for their club sides but never did anything close to that for their NT. But England have never really had a player of Ronaldo's stature (you can consider both Ronaldos here), Dinho, Pirlo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Del Pireo, Totti, Baggio, Maldini, Henry, Zidane, and most of these players aren't even from the current crop. That has hurt them over the years, and what's worse, their press hypes them up so much, you'd think they were going with an XI made up of the players I just mentioned.

Then people moan about it endlessly and trash their players until the next tournament comes along and suddenly they're gods again

[acid911]

Well, the tabloids have got to eat, just like they had a field day with Jeremy Clarkson recently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So much so that he had to record in a formal video apology. These are the guys that hype up the English players, to the determinant of not just the fans but also the players themselves. Why? Because when they fail, they'll be all over them.

Nice to hear that the game will be huge over there, same is the case in these parts of the woods.

[kurtsimonw]

Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Cole, Terry and many more names, all great players, and all of which have produced some top class stuff for their club sides but never did anything close to that for their NT.

It doesn't help that people want thing both ways.

Before a tournament you get the moaners saying that we always "fail", that we're nowhere near good enough to win. That's fair enough, we aren't good enough to win. Are we a top 2 team? Nope. Are we a top 4 team? Nope. Are we a top 8 team? I think were around the top end of the top 8. So to me, surely a QF appearance is a decent return on a tournament? Especially when we it's mostly a shootout loss and not an actual defeat. But these same people who say we're not good enough are the same ones who complain when we don't win the competition or reach the SFs.

So what is it? Is a QF appearance for a team that you don't think are top 4 acceptable? Or is it a "failure" because we don't win, even though we're not expected to? Anything for a moan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

I don't get that top 8 logic one bit. I mean not the England of the present, but the England NT in the first decade of the 2000s was a very strong team.

And the whole point was it was a team that on paper was good enough to go very far, but it still failed to perform. That was the criticism.

I don't agree with the top 8 comment at all.

Let's say I'm in school and I'm actually a smart kid but lazy. So I'm always say the 15th rank holder in a class of 30. If we hold a test and I score the 15th highest mark does that mean it's okay since I'm performing exactly as expected. NO! Because the point is not the stats here. The point is that with my intelligence I should be scoring in the top 10 of the class, and not just plodding along scoring the grades I do which is why I'm ranked where I'am in class.

IN other words, England are ranked 8 because all they do is finish at the QFs. The ranking follows the performance and you're putting the logic the other way round. Whereas the critics are saying England are a team that needs to do much better and if they did much better their rankings would improve.

---

This England NT though is the weakest I've seen in some time. That actually might work to their advantage. But Roy Hodgson is a reliable coach, not a performer. He's the guy you give a job to when you don't want things to get worse. Nothing however gets better.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

For the record I was talking about us being dull to watch and I wouldn't if I were a neutral, especially under the way Hodgson will play, this is nothing to do with expectations, high or low.

On the other point I do stick with our players as individuals not interesting anyone really outside of England compared to the Spanish, Italian's, Dutch, Brazilian's etc.

[Jack Sparrow]

Well not quite. A lot of your superstars simply tend to jump within the league to a better team. Two reasons could be:

1. They're like Italian players and don't much like leaving the country.
2. They're already in the best league in the world, and moving to a top team within the league makes sense rather than switching countries altogether to a parallel or a slightly higher team.

The superstars at the top teams rarely need to move out coz there aren't many teams abroad that are as good or can give them comparative chances of success. Perhaps Real and Barca? And Real have often taken in a few English stars. Owen, Sherringham, Beckham and now Bale.

Now there are then a few superstars who also do not leave. Like Gerrard for reasons of attachement.

[kurtsimonw]

I don't agree with the top 8 comment at all.

Well the next step up is top 4. And we're not top 4.

And England aren't ranked 8th, we're 11th. My opinion is that we fit in the 5th-8th bracket and I don't think that's me either underestimating or overestimating our team.

For the record I was talking about us being dull to watch and I wouldn't if I were a neutral, especially under the way Hodgson will play, this is nothing to do with expectations, high or low.

Yeah I agree with this.

[han2503]

It doesn't help that people want thing both ways.

Before a tournament you get the moaners saying that we always "fail", that we're nowhere near good enough to win. That's fair enough, we aren't good enough to win. Are we a top 2 team? Nope. Are we a top 4 team? Nope. Are we a top 8 team? I think were around the top end of the top 8. So to me, surely a QF appearance is a decent return on a tournament? Especially when we it's mostly a shootout loss and not an actual defeat. But these same people who say we're not good enough are the same ones who complain when we don't win the competition or reach the SFs.

So what is it? Is a QF appearance for a team that you don't think are top 4 acceptable? Or is it a "failure" because we don't win, even though we're not expected to? Anything for a moan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I personally think QF is just right for the quality England have.

I think the disappointment and moaning about failure comes after the massive over-hyping that occurs before England go into the tournament.

As I said above, England for the last 2 decades or so have missed that real top class quality leader on the pitch. They don't have flair players that can change a game on their own, they never really had any colossal defenders that in these tournaments decide a team's fate.

I think they've performed relatively ok for the players they've had over the years

I don't get that top 8 logic one bit. I mean not the England of the present, but the England NT in the first decade of the 2000s was a very strong team.

And the whole point was it was a team that on paper was good enough to go very far, but it still failed to perform. That was the criticism.

I don't agree with the top 8 comment at all.

Let's say I'm in school and I'm actually a smart kid but lazy. So I'm always say the 15th rank holder in a class of 30. If we hold a test and I score the 15th highest mark does that mean it's okay since I'm performing exactly as expected. NO! Because the point is not the stats here. The point is that with my intelligence I should be scoring in the top 10 of the class, and not just plodding along scoring the grades I do which is why I'm ranked where I'am in class.

IN other words, England are ranked 8 because all they do is finish at the QFs. The ranking follows the performance and you're putting the logic the other way round. Whereas the critics are saying England are a team that needs to do much better and if they did much better their rankings would improve.

---

This England NT though is the weakest I've seen in some time. That actually might work to their advantage. But Roy Hodgson is a reliable coach, not a performer. He's the guy you give a job to when you don't want things to get worse. Nothing however gets better.

I don't think that's as much of the case here jack, sure England have players who never really produced on the NT stage as they have done for their club. But imo they never really had a team that was good enough to go to the semis or the finals, which is always what's hyped by their press, which in turn is what makes each time a huge failure as they can never amount to that sort of expectation.

And this isn't the CL where a team can be well coached and organised and through sheer will manage to win it or get very far, we've had many examples of that over the years. Case in point Atletico this season, they're not even the 5th best side on paper that took part in the CL this season, yet look at where they are. You can't do that in a WC. You have a team that rarely plays together, you have limited matches where most often mistakes are punished and you're out. A WC is won by teams who have the class and talent to back it up

How many average to decent sides have won the CL? And how many have won the WC?

[kurtsimonw]

Hodgson says United players have to perform for their England place and can't just expect to be in the squad. I'm hoping this is aimed mostly at Carrick and Cleverley who are both awful and add absolutely nothing to the team.