[Jack Sparrow]

Didn't see the match...but again we seem to suffer with teams who press high up the pitch. Anyone got any ideas for this?

And please make it nice and practical....and not the Player X is crap routine so we need to spend 190900 million to buy Essien.

[han2503]

Yup... and not only that, but Mascherano is so good and so disruptive you can put him on an island. He doesn't need any help.

I agree with your general point... but with the age of our midfield and the lack of defensive abilities in our wings we're always going to be very open to a counter attack... and in that light, KPB's athleticism and speed really does help cover for Pirlo. Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini should probably be the first choice, sure... but I don't see KPB as much of a downgrade. I did say before the season that he might be best used as an hour mark sub to inject some life and energy into the midfield. The only combo that I don't think works is Gattuso and Ambro together with Pirlo. Too old, too slow, not enough defensive ability (they're all past their prime in that respect).

Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini imo is not a good idea. Flamini is not a box-to-box mid. He's a DM but he can also move the ball forward at pace and shoot. Imo for a really fast midfield, Flamini-Pirlo-Boateng would be the best choice. Seedorf-Pirlo-Flamini would be slower but can hold better possession. Ambro-Pirlo-Seedorf is the slowest combination we have and imo not a good idea anymore.

Imo this is how the midfield combination should work

Combination 1: Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng:
If Ambro is playing, Boateng needs to play as well, he'll inject pace into a rather slow midfield and Ambro can hold his position while Pirlo and Boateng are the only ones tat can push forward, with Boateng being able to recover his position quickly due to his pace if we get caught out. Also he needs to play on Zambrotta's side, like elcordbez said, you can see clearly how Zambro was holding his position when Boateng moved forward, something Bonera was not doing when Rino moved forward against Cesena, thus Pirlo getting caught wide open. And the DM should be on Antonini's side since he likes to power forward more to help Ronnie

Combination 2: Seedorf--Pirlo--Flamini:
This combination would focus more on keeping possession, while still having some speed in the midfield due to Flamini. Seedorf is a smarter player then Boateng, he knows how to hold his position when Antonini moves forward.

Combination 3: Flamini-Pirlo--Boateng:
Imo this is our fasest and most dynamic midfield trio. Flamni can cover Pirlo while still help out with moving the ball, Boateng will help out in defense while also providing the burst into the box. Pirlo should be ahead of them in the midfield though so he's more free to roam

Combo's that we shouldn't play

Ambro-Pirlo-Rino -> Horrible
Ambro-Pirlo-Seedorf -> Too slow
Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini -> Too one dimensional

[elcordobez]

We have the best creative player in the world but he is physically not very good. Of course you have to cover him.

Read this for our game against Cesena - http://acmilan.theoffside.com/champions-le...as-counter.html

It seams that we haven't see the same game tonight...

I read link you posted a few days ago,i think his emphasis was more on the fact that we lacked the speed to match Cesena's counter attacks something which Flamini and Boateng would give us.I don't think there was too much wrong with Gattuso's role vs Cesena just that he couldn't press/retreat quickly enough and our fullbacks were chasing shadows,that didn't help either.
And imo our 433 is more akin to Chelsea's than Barca.

Boateng just needs fix his positioning in certain situations,from watching the 2nd half again,the Auxerre midfield got behind him a few times but Pirlo mopped up for him once with that sliding tackle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) but i think that's adequate cover for Pirlo,i know it's asking a lot of Pirlo to do the amount of defensive work he's doing now but i think it's necessary for our 433 to work,attacking wise yeh he is very creative but it can get predictable,needs someone like kpb next to him offering a different option if Pirlo gets closed down.
The midfield in general was...to borrow the commentators term "sloppy" and static so overall you're probably right Boateng wasn't that good and we're getting ahead of ourselves but he stood out in an average team performance and showed that he has the abilities we need in midfield so i'm hopeful.

Meaning what?

too early?

alright...

This post has been edited by elcordobez: Sep 16 2010, 08:16 AM

[Zed.D]

No it's just that I was worried some people would assume that I think anyone who's not a creative, crafty genius with vision who can make long/short assists ALONG with running at the speed of light while beating their man with a gazillion tricks is a sub-standard footballer.

You're right though. I'm probably not as big a fan as you are because I kept thinking of him as our new Sheva and expect the same standards, the same style of play. I think he can't be that way, despite my mental conditioning to the #7 shirt. We should accept that his strengths tend to be towards being a primo punta and maybe play him there.

The downside is we might be throwing away any chance of him developing his band of capabilities and turn into a one-dimensional pacy striker. Look at Drogba, he's primarily a frontman, but his contributions recently have become so varied. Can Pato expand on a parallel? Become much more than just a goalscorer?

You can't expect 2 players to be the carbon copy of each other. Pato and Sheva have some qualities in common but they're far from similar players. he's not even a #7. at Inter, he wore #11. he's definitely a #11 type of player, so don't let that number 7 fool you!

I think I wouldn't be wrong if I said Sheva was a bit slower, had less technique on the ball but was a better finisher, and had a better sense of team work. he was more 'European' while Pato is more Brazilian. but those qualities he lacks can be worked on and improved nonetheless. he can change as he's still pretty young. and this is not the perfect world of FCB...

So what Pato really needs IMO is a great (or better yet, genius) coach to decide for him which position suits him best. the rest doesn't worry me cause I believe in his talent. maybe Carlo was right after all, playing Pato at the top of his Christmas tree, as a primo punta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[han2503]

You can't expect 2 players to be the carbon copy of each other. Pato and Sheva have some qualities in common but they're far from similar players. he's not even a #7. at Inter, he wore #11. he's definitely a #11 type of player, so don't let that number 7 fool you!

I think I wouldn't be wrong if I said Sheva was a bit slower, had less technique on the ball but was a better finisher, and had a better sense of team work. he was more 'European' while Pato is more Brazilian. but those qualities he lacks can be worked on and improved nonetheless. he can change as he's still pretty young. and this is not the perfect world of FCB...

So what Pato really needs IMO is a great (or better yet, genius) coach to decide for him which position suits him best. the rest doesn't worry me cause I believe in his talent. maybe Carlo was right after all, playing Pato at the top of his Christmas tree, as a primo punta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Imo that position limits Pato to a certain degree. I think his best position is coming in from the left. He knows how to easily beat his man from that left side, while on the right he usually gets stuck.

I think when all 3 front players get more accustomed to each other they should all rotate positions continually during the match, they were trying that againt Cesena but were mostly getting in each other's way

[Zed.D]

Imo that position limits Pato to a certain degree. I think his best position is coming in from the left. He knows how to easily beat his man from that left side, while on the right he usually gets stuck.

I think when all 3 front players get more accustomed to each other they should all rotate positions continually during the match, they were trying that againt Cesena but were mostly getting in each other's way

Won't limit him in getting on the scoresheet though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) thing is, the left side belongs to Dinho so playing Pato there is out of question. and he doesn't look comfortable in the right. why not play him where he does feel comfortable? he can score lots of goals as a primo punta. IMO it's better to be amazing at one thing than be just good at many things.

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Sep 16 2010, 08:36 AM

[acid911]

IMO it's better to be amazing at one thing than be just good at many things.

That actually depends on who's doing the thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I'd say both possibilities have their upsides and downsides, all rounds who are good at a whole bunch of things bring versatile dimensions. Louis van Gaal said about Huntelaar that he is the best player inside the penalty area, bar none. Look where that got him?

In a perfect world, I would have Pato be amazing at one thing, while also being good at many things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) And I'd say he has another 2-3 years to sort himself out. For all that counts, he may be a truly explosive player by the time he peaks at say when he is 25 years old.

[Jack Sparrow]

I personally think Sheva had more techhnique, probably coz he was a bit more mature in his thought process...like you said more European.

Well yeah...I remember that little debate. When Carlo said in one of his Chelsea interviews on Milan...that he'd considered playing Pato on the right flank but Pato said he wouldn't be comfortable playing there..so the plan was dropped.

But I personally like us switching to a 2-striker system. With Pato playing off Ibra. Both being mobile, it would be hard to manmark.

But fitting either of R80 or Robinho in it is hard then..with both strikers playing central.

[Jack Sparrow]

I think when all 3 front players get more accustomed to each other they should all rotate positions continually during the match, they were trying that againt Cesena but were mostly getting in each other's way

I didn't watch the last CL match...but I read on some comments from fans that Robinho was doing exactly that when he came on. Popping up on the opposite flank from time to time. Did you guys see it?

[m1ke]

Combination 3: Flamini-Pirlo--Boateng:
Imo this is our fasest and most dynamic midfield trio. Flamni can cover Pirlo while still help out with moving the ball, Boateng will help out in defense while also providing the burst into the box. Pirlo should be ahead of them in the midfield though so he's more free to roam

I'd like to see this.

[han2503]

I didn't watch the last CL match...but I read on some comments from fans that Robinho was doing exactly that when he came on. Popping up on the opposite flank from time to time. Did you guys see it?

Yep Robinho was more mobile then Pato, who mostly tried to cut inside on his weaker foot, which is when he usually got stuck.

Personally I think he can score a lot of goals no matter where he plays, but getting the best out of what he can do aside from scoring is the issue here, and imo that would be playing on the left. But as Zeddie said, Ronnie owns that side and it's not even debatable that he shouldn't be moved.

Then again, I do believe Ronaldinho can play behind the 2 strikers, and drift behind them, it's a matter of making it work though

As for Sheva, I think he had an overall better footballing mind then Pato, Pato is faster and a better dribbler, while Sheva could cross and make a killer pass as well

[d'Arc.LP]

Combination 3: Flamini-Pirlo--Boateng:
Imo this is our fasest and most dynamic midfield trio. Flamni can cover Pirlo while still help out with moving the ball, Boateng will help out in defense while also providing the burst into the box. Pirlo should be ahead of them in the midfield though so he's more free to roam

Combo's that we shouldn't play

Ambro-Pirlo-Rino -> Horrible
Ambro-Pirlo-Seedorf -> Too slow
Ambro-Pirlo-Flamini -> Too one dimensional

I'm not talking about easy games, I'm talking about the ones against Real and Inter. Boateng and Flamini are fast and everything but they don't play with their heads... Playing both in the same formation it's very unpredictable.

The time will show us how good/bad Boateng is. After all we need one more striker (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[TriniKing_CE]

(IMG:http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/20ffecd391.jpg)

Pre-game - Team Photo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[elcordobez]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Abs is taller than Ibra? didn't know that

I'm not talking about easy games, I'm talking about the ones against Real and Inter. Boateng and Flamini are fast and everything but they don't play with their heads... Playing both in the same formation it's very unpredictable.

The time will show us how good/bad Boateng is. After all we need one more striker (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

lol...

Well i watched the game again,i think he got instructions to push up in the 2nd half he was pretty much in line with Pirlo for the most of 1st half and played quite defensive,the most advanced he ever got was that deflected shot he made on goal.

Time will tell indeed

You can download the game here if you want another look.

1st Half

http://hotfile.com/dl/69677655/77d8947/Mil....part1.rar.html
http://hotfile.com/dl/69677778/e2a405b/Mil....part2.rar.html


2nd Half

http://www.fileserve.com/file/yWBrFPn
http://www.fileserve.com/file/QMD6Smh
http://www.fileserve.com/file/GFtmBb9

This post has been edited by elcordobez: Sep 16 2010, 10:55 AM

[d'Arc.LP]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Abs is taller than Ibra? didn't know that



lol...

Well i watched the game again,i think he got instructions to push up in the 2nd half he was pretty much in line with Pirlo for the most of 1st half and played quite defensive,the most advanced he ever got was that deflected shot he made on goal.

Time will tell indeed

You can download the game here if you want another look.

1st Half

http://hotfile.com/dl/69677655/77d8947/Mil....part1.rar.html
http://hotfile.com/dl/69677778/e2a405b/Mil....part2.rar.html


2nd Half

http://www.fileserve.com/file/yWBrFPn
http://www.fileserve.com/file/QMD6Smh
http://www.fileserve.com/file/GFtmBb9

I've seen the game.

Look at Auxerres counter attacks and tell me where Boateng is and why he is not there to cover his space in midfiled ?

That says enough. You can't judge Gattuso for his game against Cesena. Boateng made the same errors but fortunately they missed .