[Tennie]

Milan take the trip to Bergamo to face Atalanta this Sunday.

The game will be at 3pm, Italy time.

The team has just returned from the Netherlands (1pm Friday) and will be going directly to Milanello for training.

Stefano Farina will be refereeing the game.

Here's Mediaset's projected lineup:
Milan (4-3-2-1): Abbiati; Zambrotta, Nesta, Maldini, Jankulovski; Ambrosini, Gattuso, Seedorf; Kakà, Ronaldinho; Borriello

Here's Gazzetta's:
Abbiati; Zambrotta, Nesta, Maldini, Jankulovski; Ambrosini, Gattuso, Seedorf; Kakà, Ronaldinho; Borriello

First time in a while that they've both been in agreement. It's good to see Nesta's name back in the squad!

[Jack Sparrow]

Are you one of our lucky match thread openers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Zed.D]

Please, no Christmas tree. (IMG:http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/sorrowsmiley2.gif)

[Zed.D]

I mean everyone thinks we were playing with two strikers against Samp while we were not. for some reasons Carlo had told Pato to play deeper, maybe somehow fill Kaka's empty place. we weren't playing with two genuine strikers. the same will be the case for Kaka-Ronaldinho-Borriello. it's playing two trequartistas behind a target man. it's not two-striker formation... Ronaldinho is not a striker.

[Jack Sparrow]

He can play SS, I think. At least the Ronaldinho of old could. F@ck, that man was a monster. He could play CAM, LF, SS, and sometimes all three together.

[Zed.D]

Key word: could!

Right now he's still not in that condition IMO. I mean you still don't feel you're guaranteed goals when he's playing. but he can make an assist any moment.
That's why I think Kaka-Dinho-Borriello is not 1-2 but 2-1!

This post has been edited by zdrossoneri: Oct 24 2008, 02:40 PM

[Jack Sparrow]

Yeah it's 2-1. But I think the difference is that neither Kaka nor Ronaldinho are treqqies(excuse me bastardising) in the classic Rui Costa sense. They're goal scoring mids (Or Galliani's 'attackers' vs 'strikers' thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). So in theory, having the stereotypical hard target man in Borriello should play to the strengths of this particular formation, as opposed to the old disastrous 4-3-2-1 which depended on a goal poacher trying to get physical with the defenders. Since the classic target man messes the defenders positioning, and often gives the mids time to get into the play.

Slightly veering off course, I was thinking about this 4-3-2-1/4-3-1-2 which we play and doing a before-after analysis with Rui in the system. Remember how we were saying Sheva was dropping in goal form when we sold him. Of course he was an effective cog in the system but he wasn't the White Ronaldo he used to be.

Before we put it down to age, I was just wondering how much of it is down to emergence of Kaka over Rui and the difference in their playing styles.

Earlier Rui used to play behind Sheva, and Rui's complete play was on making assists. He was not a natural goalscorer like Kaka. And ShevaPippo was just given stuff on a plate. This along with Seedorf and Pirlo also being creative. But with the emergence of Kaka, could we say the service line was stretched thin? Not in a negative way. But I often feel Kaka while a superb player is not a pure playmaker like Rui. He often goes for an opportunity on goal if he thinks he has a chance as opposed to Rui who's more into finding an opening to put Sheva through. How many of Sheva's goals used to be off those through balls!

Basically I think Kaka as a goalscoring mid is less likely to play with his focal point as the strikers. And similarly when Kaka is also a goalscoring threat, Seedorf and Pirlo are also less likely to keep servicing the forwards alone.

My point is, that while this change in gameplay style (without the change in formation) may not have affected Pippo's chances much, but perhaps has an impact on Sheva (him being the type of player he is). So maybe Sheva was not just dropping due to age, but also a change in tactics.

Just a thought....I'm not saying either system was better. Since we still got goals...but just a harmless analysis that's all.

Of course I don't have the stats, so this could just be a baseless theory.

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Oct 24 2008, 02:53 PM

[Zed.D]

Earlier Rui used to play behind Sheva, and Rui's complete play was on making assists. He was not a natural goalscorer like Kaka. And ShevaPippo was just given stuff on a plate. This along with Seedorf and Pirlo also being creative. But with the emergence of Kaka, could we say the service line was stretched thin? Not in a negative way. But I often feel Kaka while a superb player is not a pure playmaker like Rui. He often goes for an opportunity on goal if he thinks he has a chance as opposed to Rui who's more into finding an opening to put Sheva through. How many of Sheva's goals used to be off those through balls!

How many of Pippo's goals came from Kaka's assists? I'd say MANY. I also remember many unselfish moves by Kaka when he would pass the ball to Pippo to bury it in, while he could do it himself. in other words he used to carry the ball from midfield inside the opponent's box and hand the opportunity to another striker, mainly Pippo. he has a different style than Rui, sure, but I think the number of assists could prove the service line was not stretched thin after Kaka replaced Rui. he just makes a LOT of assists every season. I'd be happy if someone provided those stats.

I agree with the reason of Sheva's decline. he needs to become a Pippo or he will continue his Chelsea form in Milan too (goalscoring-wise).

[Jack Sparrow]

Like I said...I wasn't saying Kaka is selfish. Just that since he's also a better shot taker than Rui, if both players are presented the same opportunity... I think Rui would have a 60% chance of putting the strikers clean and a 40% chance of taking the shot, while it might be vice versa for Kaka, since they are different players. As a result Kaka would take the shot while Rui would put Sheva through. This was the crux of my argument.

And as for your Pippo point. It's true. But then it was true earlier as well. Since Pippo is a box-loiterer the chances of him getting an assist from Kaka and Rui are the same. As opposed to Sheva who is more connected to the rest of the game.

I mentioned this in my post...

My point is, that while this change in gameplay style (without the change in formation) may not have affected Pippo's chances much, but perhaps has an impact on Sheva (him being the type of player he is). So maybe Sheva was not just dropping due to age, but also a change in tactics.

[TriniKing_CE]

Jack, I understand what you are trying to say with regards to the differences between Kaka and Rui's style of play!

[Jack Sparrow]

If you'll give me your address, I'll mail you a personally autographed T-Shirt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Thanks bro.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[TriniKing_CE]

If you'll give me your address, I'll mail you a personally autographed T-Shirt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Thanks bro.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Haha - it can work both ways Captain (I might consider doing the same)
or I might just send you one of these cookies I have pilled up over time from a fish doll. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[CrazyMilanFan]

r80 should be playing much closer to goal it will be more like 4-3-1-2 or may be 4-3-3 sort with kaka and r80 playing wide forwards/wing forwards

[Darunia]

Milan has a poor record @ Atalanta, hopefully that doesn't continue.

[Bluesummers]

i agree with formation. Pato should sit down for a few games. He is overused and it will damage his future. Besides that he doesnt do anything on the field when put on. He needs to settle down and find his rythm again. Dinho is getting his form back while kaka is on his way to ballon d'or nominee.