[han2503]

All CL talk for the new season here

[X-Offender]

Pretty inexcusable from Roma, especially someone as experienced as De Rossi who practically condemned his team with such an idiotic foul.

[han2503]

Pretty inexcusable from Roma, especially someone as experienced as De Rossi who practically condemned his team with such an idiotic foul.

But very typical for them, so it's no surprise. I only saw the first half but red card or not, they were already doing their utter best to ruin their chances.

That being said, it's good they're in the EL, they'll rack up some decent co-efficient points for the league instead of getting through to the CL, being unseeded and getting KO'd in an impossible group.

However, with all that said, this:

New @ChampionsLeague format starting in 2018/2019. 4 clubs from Spain, England, Germany and Italy will go directly into the group stage. The 4th team on historical merit.

will be coming into play in a few years so it won't really matter

[Fillipo Simone]

Is that confirmed? Sounds very strange? What does historical merit exactly mean?

Anyway, stupid by De Rossi, but like han said, by no way unexpected. Especially De Rossi who's stopped being a regularly good player long time ago and is now always up to such shenanigans.

[han2503]

Is that confirmed? Sounds very strange? What does historical merit exactly mean?

Anyway, stupid by De Rossi, but like han said, by no way unexpected. Especially De Rossi who's stopped being a regularly good player long time ago and is now always up to such shenanigans.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/marcotti-musi...by-gab-marcotti

From what I can understand it's pending final approval and they agreed to this because the big clubs were threatening a break-away league

From what I can understand it will be the 4 biggest leagues (historically) getting 4 automatic spots without any qualifying rounds

[Fillipo Simone]

Good for us.

[Jack Sparrow]

Maybe. But we don't deserve to be. The top 5 of England and Spain are better than the top 3 of the other leagues if taken cumulatively. FFS, Roma can't even get past Porto.

[Fillipo Simone]

It's hard to say who deserves to pass and who doesn't. That kind of criteria won't bring us anywhere, because by today's standards the EPL is almost stronger then the CL. Also, yesterday I watched Dinamo Zagreb and Red Bull Salzburg: do these two teams deserve to be in the CL? Compared to both Porto and Roma they are miles away. So, the system with weaker opponents fighting each others while Italian, French, Spanish and Portugese clubs are bound to face each other is also unfair.

From what I can think, this change of rules will give clubs like Roma, Napoli, etc more breathing space, a more secure environment that will ultimately make them stronger and more adapted to CL football.

[X-Offender]

It's kinda sad though that what will eventually bring us back to the CL are new rules rather than our own strengths, unless by some miracle we finish 3rd this season.

[han2503]

Maybe. But we don't deserve to be. The top 5 of England and Spain are better than the top 3 of the other leagues if taken cumulatively. FFS, Roma can't even get past Porto.

Nah, England is basically just steam rolling everyone because of all the money in the league. When you have relegation contenders battling it out for the best players simply because they can and are financially stronger than clubs in Italy/Germany/Spain (outside of Real and Barca), then you know you have a problem. The EPL has skewed things so widely that it's going to become a one horse race if things in the other leagues do not improve.

This is fair. Italy has historically been stronger in Europe than England and despite all of it's financial/structural short-comings is still putting teams in the competition that are doing better than their English counter-parts and aren't so far off from England in the co-efficients.

What this does though is continue to beat down the smaller clubs and clubs from France and Portugal

It's hard to say who deserves to pass and who doesn't. That kind of criteria won't bring us anywhere, because by today's standards the EPL is almost stronger then the CL. Also, yesterday I watched Dinamo Zagreb and Red Bull Salzburg: do these two teams deserve to be in the CL? Compared to both Porto and Roma they are miles away. So, the system with weaker opponents fighting each others while Italian, French, Spanish and Portugese clubs are bound to face each other is also unfair.

From what I can think, this change of rules will give clubs like Roma, Napoli, etc more breathing space, a more secure environment that will ultimately make them stronger and more adapted to CL football.

Agreed. Plus I think the entire co-efficient system is BS. The fact that Germany took Italy's spot because their teams were doing well in the EL league while Italian teams were winning the CL but were shitty in the EL says it all

It's kinda sad though that what will eventually bring us back to the CL are new rules rather than our own strengths, unless by some miracle we finish 3rd this season.

First we have to make it to 4th. We're not even capable of getting into the EL atm, so we'll see if this will even effect us

[d'Arc.LP]

Official: The top four clubs from the four top-ranked leagues will qualify automatically for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League from 2018. Historical success in the competition will also be acknowledged in coefficient calculation (points for previous European titles).

[Fillipo Simone]

Meaning what exactly? I'm still not clear on that historical success thing.

[han2503]

Meaning what exactly? I'm still not clear on that historical success thing.

I think that in a very veiled way they're saying that England, Italy, Spain and Germany won't have an automatic qualification, technically. But with historical success coming into play when co-efficients are calculated. it's basically a default result of those 4 leagues being the top 4, with neither France, nor Portugal being able to break through.

[Fillipo Simone]

Hmh. Now I get it. So it's the historical success of a country overall that will count, not the individual clubs? Okay, makes sense. What do you guys think of the changes anyway, other then that it's good for Italian football?

[han2503]

Hmh. Now I get it. So it's the historical success of a country overall that will count, not the individual clubs? Okay, makes sense. What do you guys think of the changes anyway, other then that it's good for Italian football?

Well obviously I'm happy about this in terms of being a fan of Serie A and a team within it. But I have to say that I'd be p!ssed if I followed the French or Portuguese league. This has basically taken away any chance of them being able to advance their league and getting more teams into the CL.

It's obviously unfair for the smaller leagues, but I think it also is sort of a retribution because the current way that co-efficients are calculated is also ridiculous. Plus it will most likely make the competition more interesting in terms of pure entertainment factor.

[Fillipo Simone]

Surely. Maybe it can be less of a three-club show.

[X-Offender]

So, it's official. The first four teams in the Serie A will go directly to the group stages of the 2018/19 CL.

Link

We really need to step up our game so we can use such a golden opportunity. Hopefully the closing happens and the Chinese splash some money in the summer. I really miss us in the CL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Danny]

So, it's official. The first four teams in the Serie A will go directly to the group stages of the 2018/19 CL.

Link

We really need to step up our game so we can use such a golden opportunity. Hopefully the closing happens and the Chinese splash some money in the summer. I really miss us in the CL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

That's random?! No league on earth gets its first four sides directly into the group stage! Why would a spluttering Serie A suddenly be granted it!

[X-Offender]

Official: The top four clubs from the four top-ranked leagues will qualify automatically for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League from 2018. Historical success in the competition will also be acknowledged in coefficient calculation (points for previous European titles).

fyi

[Danny]

fyi

Ah. Thought it was Serie A only haha!

No chance we'll get fourth. None at all.

[Fillipo Simone]

In two years? Why?

[han2503]

Ah. Thought it was Serie A only haha!

No chance we'll get fourth. None at all.

We'll see what happens this summer, but top 4 is do-able if we make a couple of decent signings and hold on to our important players + Montella

[Danny]

We'll see what happens this summer, but top 4 is do-able if we make a couple of decent signings and hold on to our important players + Montella

I misread. I thought the thing started next season - 2017/2018.

[han2503]

I misread. I thought the thing started next season - 2017/2018.

Well the top 4 in 17/18 will go directly into the CL for the 18/19 season

[Danny]

Well the top 4 in 17/18 will go directly into the CL for the 18/19 season

Yeah as in I thought the 4th place finish was required this season, not next.

[han2503]

Yeah as in I thought the 4th place finish was required this season, not next.

Ah, gotcha.

A decent mercato next summer (meaning no more Galliani favours and flops) and we'll get 4th under Montella, I'm pretty confident in that considering what we've seen of him this season with the limited resources he has been afforded

[X-Offender]

You never know. Roma, Napoli and Inter constitute a serious threat for the 2-4 positions. We'll have to do our maximum and more if we want to attain CL football after two years.

[han2503]

You never know. Roma, Napoli and Inter constitute a serious threat for the 2-4 positions. We'll have to do our maximum and more if we want to attain CL football after two years.

Roma and Napoli always end up selling (Roma especially). If we can make 3 or 4 important signings I think we'll definitely be in the mix

Inter imo are looking to be the real deal

[Jack Sparrow]

Roma and Napoli always end up selling (Roma especially). If we can make 3 or 4 important signings I think we'll definitely be in the mix

Inter imo are looking to be the real deal

That club is a mad house. They have the new manager honeymoon period going on. I'm fairly sure they'll screw up next season.

[X-Offender]

That club is a mad house. They have the new manager honeymoon period going on. I'm fairly sure they'll screw up next season.

Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.

[han2503]

Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.

Agreed, I think they'll make a big splash this summer and will be a strong force next season

[Danny]

Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.

We thought the same about ourselves only 6 months ago. It can change, quickly.

[han2503]

I know this thread is dead, but I just have to say

Bayern have been screwed trice over in this tie!

[X-Offender]

I know this thread is dead, but I just have to say

Bayern have been screwed trice over in this tie!

I was just about to post. Most offside goal in CL history? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[han2503]

I was just about to post. Most offside goal in CL history? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That, the bad sending offs in both games, Lewandowski judged off side in the first half when he was clean through while he was onside and Casemiro still being on the pitch after the fouling and diving. Honestly, I'm just disgusted with some of the officiating I've seen throughout these knock-out games

Personally I'm all for Barca going through tomorrow, but I'm sort of anticipating some sort of terrible call that will also screw Juve out of this

[han2503]

I feel very sorry for Bayern and Carlo having just watched this. It generally leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the neutral watcher.

[Fillipo Simone]

Very bitter. Very. Makes me wanna turn off the TV and say goodbye to CL this year.

[Danny]

I feel very sorry for Bayern and Carlo having just watched this. It generally leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the neutral watcher.

In the first leg fair enough, Real were the better team. Not by a lot, but they were.

But tonight was borderline dishonesty - the red card that wasn't and the offside goal. I had Bayern pegged as winning this thing, and they probably would have had Uefa favoured them.

[Fillipo Simone]

Yep, it's a disgrace. Can't remember the last time a team went through such a treatment in the late phases of the CL. Probably the Chelsea-Barcelona thing.

[CrazyMilanFan]

There is clearly something wrong in UEFA. As 3-4 key decision going in favor of one makes no sense at all.

[X-Offender]

There is clearly something wrong in UEFA. As 3-4 key decision going in favor of one makes no sense at all.

I think the refereeing was just crap. Bayern's second goal was also offside, I read.

But still, Ronaldo's first offside goal. How the hell can you miss that? That linesman should never officiate again.

[Fillipo Simone]

Second goal? How can an owngoal be offside?

[Rossoneri7]

Carlo has nothing to prove, Bayern were tactically on point and if not for the wrongly given second yellow to Vidal, where he was sent off for getting to the ball first!

Then obviously what was highlighted above as referee short comings.

I think it is fair to say Madrid had influence over the fixture.

[X-Offender]

Second goal? How can an owngoal be offside?

Apparently Muller was offside in the beginning.

[Danny]

As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

[X-Offender]

As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?

[Rossoneri7]

As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

Allegri benefited from his time at Milan, he did well given the resources available at Milan. And this applies to Carlo too.

What Juve is doing is something to be proud of, being the only Italian flag bearer in Europe and humbling Barca like that.

Four teams left in it alright but only one has the ref on their side.

[amancik]

Agreed. Juve deserve to win the Champions League this year. Solid at the back, effective up front; probably one of the strongest balanced sides in Europe.

[Jack Sparrow]

Allegri benefited from his time at Milan, he did well given the resources available at Milan. And this applies to Carlo too.

What Juve is doing is something to be proud of, being the only Italian flag bearer in Europe and humbling Barca like that.

Four teams left in it alright but only one has the ref on their side.

Agreed. Juve deserve to win the Champions League this year. Solid at the back, effective up front; probably one of the strongest balanced sides in Europe.

I don't give a sh!t about what they deserve. This is Juve. Have they always been winning only when they deserve. F@ck em! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I won't be mad if they win, but I'm not shedding tears either.

[X-Offender]

Frankly speaking, I don't hate Juve. Sure, they're our rivals and all, but Inter ate the ones I truly detest and always want to see fail.

For Italian's football sake, as a fan, I'd like them to win. Also because I hate Madrid, too.

[Danny]

+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?

Dunno, ask Guardiola (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You and Han will never give Allegri any credit. I've embraced that.

[han2503]

As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

Sorry, but he hasn't convinced me of anything that I don't already know. He's a decent coach as long as he has a good team. Once that is compromised, forget about it

+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?

This

[han2503]

Dunno, ask Guardiola (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You and Han will never give Allegri any credit. I've embraced that.

There are MANY others who think the same way about Allegri as we do

Oh, and how any Milan fan could entertain the idea of wanting Juve to win a CL is beyond me. Absolutely can't stand that team and their choker status in the CL is something that should be celebrated by Milan fans

[Fillipo Simone]

Indeed, indeed.

[d'Arc.LP]

There are MANY others who think the same way about Allegri as we do

+1

[Danny]

Then they're all wrong. Sorry, but you all are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The guy could go to Arsenal (as looks likely now) and win the title and you'll find some way to discredit him.

And I'm bored arguing with you all about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

PS I don't want Juve to win, I just have respect for Buffon and he personally deserves it. You know, that 18 year old's HERO? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Danny]

He's a decent coach as long as he has a good team. Once that is compromised, forget about it

GUARDIOLAKLOPPANCELOTTIHIDDINKMOURINHOWENGERRANIERI

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[X-Offender]

Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Danny]

Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And with our new-found civility I'll gracefully bow out the debate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm with Danny on this. He's a damn good coach, and he's only improved after leaving Milan. Not many coaches can deal with having their entire midfield ripped apart and given a brand new option. He's still managed to make a very capable side and have them fight.

I hope he goes to Arsenal. I daresay he will school Conte and Pep in a couple of seasons' time. Poch and Klopp might give him trouble. He's still suspect against genuine defensive pressing. But I suppose all coaches are.

[han2503]

Then they're all wrong. Sorry, but you all are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The guy could go to Arsenal (as looks likely now) and win the title and you'll find some way to discredit him.

And I'm bored arguing with you all about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

PS I don't want Juve to win, I just have respect for Buffon and he personally deserves it. You know, that 18 year old's HERO? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.

[Danny]

The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.

Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!

[d'Arc.LP]

The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.

Actually he played more in "Messi position" and some were considering him more than decent as a Right Winger.

[X-Offender]

Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!

You don't agree with what he's saying?

Actually he played more in "Messi position" and some were considering him more than decent as a Right Winger.

C'mon now buddy, let's not joke about it. Urby was abysmal, to say the least.

[d'Arc.LP]

You don't agree with what he's saying?



C'mon now buddy, let's not joke about it. Urby was abysmal, to say the least.

Sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) And he could play in so many positions, LB, LCM, LW, RW, Trequartista and SS if we were in need.

[Danny]

You don't agree with what he's saying?

Share the lemon buddy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[han2503]

Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!

Too bad that day shall never come as Max will never win a title with Arsenal (heard it hear first)

[Danny]

Too bad that day shall never come as Max will never win a title with Arsenal (heard it hear first)

*wins the UCL*

Han & X - 'it was the players wot done it' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*loses a match*

Han & X - 'el oh el at Max' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[han2503]

*wins the UCL*

Han & X - 'it was the players wot done it' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*loses a match*

Han & X - 'el oh el at Max' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If he wins the CL, I'll consider his time at Juve a success, but it still does not negate his utter failure with us

[X-Offender]

Allegri starting line-up in 2015: Buffon; Litchsteiner, Bonucci, Chiellini, Evra; Marchisio, Pirlo, Pogba, Vidal; Tevez, Morata.

Allegri starting line-up in 2017: Buffon; Dani Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Alex Sandro; Khedira, Pjanic; Mandzukic, Dybala, Cuadrado; Higuain.

Man, it must be so tough for a coach to win the league with such a poor selection of players.

Seriously, get real, Danny. Allegri has been steamrolling in Italy with the best team in the league, having either big-time chokers like Napoli or Roma as contenders, while Milan and Inter continue to delve into mediocrity.

His big achievement was the 2015 CL final. This time around he got dealt the easy hand, facing Porto, Monaco and a Barça side at the end of their cycle.

I will give him one thing, though. He has clearly changed mentality, as in he always wants to win regardless of the circumstances. That's a big plus for me. During his Milan days the guy was terrible in this aspect. Remember when Zlatan was about to assault him when he said in the dressing room that "the important thing is that we passed" after we had lost 3-0 to Arsenal? One of his many, many flaws back then.

[Danny]

Seriously, get real, X. Pep has been steamrolling in Spain with the best team in the league, having either big-time chokers like Valencia or Jose's Real as contenders, while Sevilla and Atletico continue to delve into mediocrity.

His big achievement was the 2009 CL success. This time around he got dealt the easy hand with a Utd side at the end of their cycle.

I could do this all night. It's my opinion X, I will respect yours even if I disagree with it. Just please don't insult me just because I won't come round to you and Han's way of thinking.

This, I swear, is my final ever post on Allegri. You won't get me discussing him on here ever again.

/peace out

[Danny]

If he wins the CL, I'll consider his time at Juve a success, but it still does not negate his utter failure with us

Let's move on my friend.

[X-Offender]

I could do this all night. It's my opinion X, I will respect yours even if I disagree with it. Just please don't insult me just because I won't come round to you and Han's way of thinking.

This, I swear, is my final ever post on Allegri. You won't get me discussing him on here ever again.

/peace out

Who's insulting you? Rather, you're the one using ironic remarks while me and Han are trying to give our own two cents on the matter.

[han2503]

Honestly don't know what you guys see in the man... Just baffling, especially after some of the embarrassments we've experienced with him as coach

Danny, I respect your opinions, you know that. I just don't understand why we can't have an adult conversation about Allegri. It's not like we're arguing here. I don't think it's as unhealthy a conversation as you think it is

[Jack Sparrow]

I will give him one thing, though. He has clearly changed mentality, as in he always wants to win regardless of the circumstances. That's a big plus for me. During his Milan days the guy was terrible in this aspect. Remember when Zlatan was about to assault him when he said in the dressing room that "the important thing is that we passed" after we had lost 3-0 to Arsenal? One of his many, many flaws back then.

I think that's the point Danny and I are making. The same way players improve, so do coaches. And Allegri has really gone up leaps and bounds since his days at Milan. I hate to say it, but the Milan experience and disappointments has actually made him a better coach. He's gotten better at handling egos, dealing with tactics, getting flexible etc. He's not a colourful personality but he's a damn good coach.


FWIW, I think Montella will only get better too. What we have to do is ensure to give him the kind of support so he can constantly innovate and do better. The amount of games he's got under his belt as coach for his age is really good. Not too often you get young coaches with a lot of experience.

[Danny]

@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[han2503]

@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well going by that stand, everything on this forum is pretty circular considering how few of use regularly come here. So does that mean we shouldn't talk about anything because it tends to go in circles?

[Danny]

Well going by that stand, everything on this forum is pretty circular considering how few of use regularly come here. So does that mean we shouldn't talk about anything because it tends to go in circles?

Han fella, don't be an *ss. Please respect my stance rather than arguing.

[Jack Sparrow]

@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh that's just swell. Just the both of them then. What am I Danny? A f@cking potato? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Danny]

Oh that's just swell. Just the both of them then. What am I Danny? A f@cking potato? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

You sound like a lover scorned.

[Danny]

Can't see past Juve for this. They've gone three matches in a row without conceding a goal, didn't concede any against Barca in the entire tournament, and made a very strong Monaco look frankly a bit one dimensional on their own patch.

They are about as strong as Mourinho's Inter of 2010 (maybe stronger) and I don't think even Real Madrid at their best can stop this.

God knows how Allegri's done it, he's gone beyond even my expectations, but he may just have turned them into the best club team in the world.

They are nearly impossible to break down, they score when they need to, can actually play a bit of football, and the best teams in Europe just can't score against them.

And I absolutely hate them. Going by this Serie A is decades behind them. But then it only took Jose to leave for Inter to fall apart, so if Allegri does go to Arsenal...

[Ry4n]

Can't see past Juve for this. They've gone three matches in a row without conceding a goal, didn't concede any against Barca in the entire tournament, and made a very strong Monaco look frankly a bit one dimensional on their own patch.

They are about as strong as Mourinho's Inter of 2010 (maybe stronger) and I don't think even Real Madrid at their best can stop this.

God knows how Allegri's done it, he's gone beyond even my expectations, but he may just have turned them into the best club team in the world.

They are nearly impossible to break down, they score when they need to, can actually play a bit of football, and the best teams in Europe just can't score against them.

And I absolutely hate them. Going by this Serie A is decades behind them. But then it only took Jose to leave for Inter to fall apart, so if Allegri does go to Arsenal...

They have the money , the stadium they are miles ahead of many in Serie A and will be for sometime...I don't think Allegri has changed much , hes got wiser but that was bound to happen as he got my exp from CL....he has world class players at his disposal something we were keen on selling to balance the books..and as that Jose guy says you can't make a good omelette with bad eggs...

They are prolly going to keep 4th spot open for Serie A teams to all be it enter the CL..

[Danny]

They have the money , the stadium they are miles ahead of many in Serie A and will be for sometime...I don't think Allegri has changed much , hes got wiser but that was bound to happen as he got my exp from CL....he has world class players at his disposal something we were keen on selling to balance the books..and as that Jose guy says you can't make a good omelette with bad eggs...

They are prolly going to keep 4th spot open for Serie A teams to all be it enter the CL..

Juve have mostly inferior players to Monaco and Barca yet have dominated both teams. It's not just down to the players. There's a unity, a 'die for each other' mentality in there - they've grown from the Conte underachievers into Europe's dominant team.

I mean let's not forget, it's not a massively different squad to what Conte had, and he is an exceptional manager. But couldn't take them past the last 16 in Europe. Or was it the quarters.

[Fillipo Simone]

Mostly inferior players to Monaco???? Please, do tell more about this. What's the score?

[Danny]

Mostly inferior players to Monaco???? Please, do tell more about this. What's the score?

0-2.

I'd rather have Mbappe and Falcao than Dybala and Higuain for a start. Then there's Moutinho, Mendy, Glik, and Sidibe. Juve have only one player I'd say is stronger than what Monaco have - Buffon over Subasic.

As a collective Juve have a better defence but individually the players are not special. No one is going to tell me Chiellini is a great defender - the guy is brutal. What he IS is a great leader. Alongside workhorses. And that makes their backline incredibly tough to get past.

[X-Offender]

0-2.

I'd rather have Mbappe and Falcao than Dybala and Higuain for a start. Then there's Moutinho, Mendy, Glik, and Sidibe. Juve have only one player I'd say is stronger than what Monaco have - Buffon over Subasic.

As a collective Juve have a better defence but individually the players are not special. No one is going to tell me Chiellini is a great defender - the guy is brutal. What he IS is a great leader. Alongside workhorses. And that makes their backline incredibly tough to get past.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.

[Jack Sparrow]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.

Yeah actually. Mbappe vs Dybala and Higuain vs a fully fit Falcao are the only times when Monaco draw with Juve on talent. Rest of the time, Juve win.

In any case the individuality doesn't matter. Football in this decade has all been about collective efforts in defense and attack, and as much automation of plays as possible. It's almost becoming like American football. Ugh!

Soon football coaches will have a playbook and registas will call plays in advance.

[Danny]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.

I give you Buffon, Dybala and Higuain (albeit not the latter two versus Monaco's offering), but you seem to be forgetting the players whom you're obvious to the existence of are about to beat PSG fair and square for the Ligue 1 title WHILE still being in UCL along with it.

I respect your opinion but your unfamiliarity with Monaco's players doesn't make Juve's better. It just means you need to educate yourself - this time last week you didn't even know who Mbappe was!

[Danny]

Yeah actually. Mbappe vs Dybala and Higuain vs a fully fit Falcao are the only times when Monaco draw with Juve on talent. Rest of the time, Juve win.

For those who don't know Monaco's players, maybe...

In any case the individuality doesn't matter. Football in this decade has all been about collective efforts in defense and attack, and as much automation of plays as possible. It's almost becoming like American football. Ugh!

This is why Juve have been a huge success. It's not about individual quality as much any more, but about tactics and team effort. One thing I will say that they have over both Barca and Monaco is physical strength. They're big lads - only wee players I can think of at Juve are Dybala and maybe Pjanic. Rest are all mountains.

[X-Offender]

Couldn't disagree more, Danny. Saying Monaco's players are on the same level as Juve's is a baffling thing to say, but then again Juve proved otherwise two nights ago so there's not much to discuss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Danny]

Couldn't disagree more, Danny. Saying Monaco's players are on the same level as Juve's is a baffling thing to say, but then again Juve proved otherwise two nights ago so there's not much to discuss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now you know how I feel when you and Han talk absolute shite about Allegri (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[han2503]

Juve have mostly inferior players to Monaco and Barca yet have dominated both teams. It's not just down to the players. There's a unity, a 'die for each other' mentality in there - they've grown from the Conte underachievers into Europe's dominant team.

I mean let's not forget, it's not a massively different squad to what Conte had, and he is an exceptional manager. But couldn't take them past the last 16 in Europe. Or was it the quarters.

Really? You say this and then don't want to get into discussions about Allegri. I mean honestly Danny, you're being way too transparent here

Barca have been p!ss poor this season and they're no where near their best, and no where near the efficient machine they were when they wiped Juve's sorry @sses in the final a couple years ago.

Their trashing against PSG showed this and them miraculously getting through thanks to a couple of soft pens and a Neymar free-kick really says it all about how Barca have fallen this year.

We'll see what they do in the final, but you're kidding yourself if you're trying to paint Allegri to be some genius mastermind behind the underdog's success. Juve have one of the best teams in Europe, their defence is better than either Real's or Barca's probably better than Bayern's as well considering how difficult Carlo has founf it to consistently field the same 4 at the back this season. Their midfield is also still great despite losing Pogba and Pirlo, and they have the 90m guy in Higuain. If you think that's underdog status then I don't know what else to say

Monaco have always been the dark horse here. They have a splendidly talented young side, but their inexperience showed against a clever old side like Juve.

Allegri might have learned from some of his serious errors at Milan, but he's no coaching genius. He's working with the best team in the league (by a country mile) and one of the best teams in Europe, he is where he should be and anything less atm would be a failure

[han2503]

This is why Juve have been a huge success. It's not about individual quality as much any more, but about tactics and team effort. One thing I will say that they have over both Barca and Monaco is physical strength. They're big lads - only wee players I can think of at Juve are Dybala and maybe Pjanic. Rest are all mountains.

That's always been the case with Juve, it's what Conte built and Allegri has been smart enough to carry that on, unlike when he was with us and we were all about the individual talent.

Juve, from their first successful season under Conte (especially that one) have always been about the collective and not the individuals. That's why I've always said that Allegri lost that Scudetto to a group of players far more inferior to the ones he had but to an incredibly strong collective, which he was never able to build himself while with us, no matter all the talent he had at his disposal

Having said that, the Juve of today is still an incredibly strong collective thanks to all the work done by Conte, but they're also a strong collective of great individual talent, and that's why they're so great. The foundation built by Conte has stayed there, but they have also added players which imo or top class and some are the best in their respective positions. I think this is the area in which Allegri has had success at Juve, he incorporated the new players, who are all top class into the foundation that was already there very seamlessly

Like I ssaid last week, if Juve win this CL, I will give Allegri the credit he deserves, but that still does not erase what he did with us, which is nothing short of a massive failure, and when he was with us, he also showed us how ugly his teams could play if he doesn't have the resources

[Rossoneri7]

Coaches evolve with the exposure and experience. Allegri took Milan and learned Serie A and CL (He had access to training and game plan regiments of his predecessors at Milan). When he moved to Juve they had an excellent team and he morphed it into what it is today. I wouldn't discredit Allegri by stating he took where Conti left off, on the contrary I find his playing style different to that of Conti.

Ancelotti, the greatest tactician alive IMHO. He left Milan and won everything worthy of winning. But that all came with exposure and experience.

[han2503]

Coaches evolve with the exposure and experience. Allegri took Milan and learned Serie A and CL (He had access to training and game plan regiments of his predecessors at Milan). When he moved to Juve they had an excellent team and he morphed it into what it is today. I wouldn't discredit Allegri by stating he took where Conti left off, on the contrary I find his playing style different to that of Conti.

Ancelotti, the greatest tactician alive IMHO. He left Milan and won everything worthy of winning. But that all came with exposure and experience.

Like I said, I think his best success has come by being able to integrate the big name players with the foundation built by Conte. So I agree that to an extent he has done well at Juve, but I still believe that is all thanks to the work Conte did with that team.

Answer me this, do you think that had Allegri gone to Juve instead of Milan back in 2010 instead of Conte that he would be as successful with them as he is now? For me, that's a big fat no.

Without Conte, Juve would have never gotten to where they are now, at least not anytime soon

As for playing style, of course it's different, Conte's Juve was beautiful to watch but ruthless at the same time, I don't think they have that edge now that they did back under Conte.

[kurtsimonw]

I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.

[Jack Sparrow]

I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.

Haha. Well it's the fag end of a season, that although not too bad hasn't really set us up with a renaissance has it? So this was bound to happen. All the pet peeves coming out.

[Danny]

I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.

Don't even MENTION Zapata (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[han2503]

Don't even MENTION Zapata (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I prefer Zapata over Allegri...

[Danny]

I prefer Zapata over Allegri...

Don't even MENTION Muntari (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)