[Tennie]

I've looked over the last couple of pages of this discussion and again Gourcuff comes up and again a whole bunch of people seem really seriously pissed off.

I personally disagree for a whole bunch of reasons on the general issue (would I like to see Gourcuff back at Milan? Honestly? No.)

However, the tone is getting awfully harsh to my eyes. For that reason, I'm staying out of the way of any further demonisation-of-Ancelotti-because-he-ruined-poor-blameless-Gourcuff-discussions.

[Zed.D]

I'm not pissed off because we're losing him. we went on without Sheva, we will go on without Yoann too. but when I see some put ALL of the blame on Yoann, I get kinda angry! there's should be a limit in everything. Ancelotti is not GOD. people need to understand he might have had a part in this failure too. more than one or two people in this world believe that so it's not a completely baseless sentiment.

demonisation-of-Ancelotti-because-he-ruined-poor-blameless-Gourcuff-discussions.

There's another side to that coin, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Feb 4 2009, 10:56 PM

[acid911]

Disagree. The fact that Flamini hasn't played very well probably has as much to do with him not getting more starts as does his injury and the fact that Beckham has been playing very well indeed.

I'm not saying the exact same thing's happening to Flamini - but it's similar in a way in that he goes weeks and months apart in getting a regular spot. I know he's still adjusting, but people like him need regular playing time to do that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He's far from a failure as of the time of this writing. And the blame doesn't lie with Carlo (or anyone) alone. Thing is, a young and upcoming player needs all of these things in this order to shine and become a legend:

1) Talent
2) Confidence in his abilities
3) Trust of the coach/club
4) Playing time - regular variety of it
5) Luck - and that is being the right guy at the right time in the right place

I don't know on which point Gourcuff was lacking. Or in this case Flamini too.

There's absolutely no way of knowing something like that. Predicting a result with negative overtones to a hypothetical is, well, not entirely objective.

This I'll agree with, what happens becomes history, what doesn't, hypothesis. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepysmiley03.gif) Things like these one never can predict with absolute surety, lots of variables. But it also means that they may/could have happened.

The thing you didn't see Zd is all the trainings, preparations, conditionings, etc. If Ancelotti decided not to pick him up for most matches I'm sure that's the reason. You know, a coach doesn't just judge players on how they perform on matchdays, they see the overall. And if Carlo decided not to pick him even in serious and bad times, it means something. But this debate is irrelevant. Most of you think Carlo's an idiot and that ONE season destroyed Gourcuff so badly that he has to flee from Milan because his indesputable talent will be wasted. I give up, yes he's the new XXXX...

Boy, one of these days I really would like to know these reasons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) Besides, I'm not the type to hype up young players like there is no tomorrow. I like to live in the past a bit, remain realistic. But whatever the cause, fact is that Gourcuff failed to live up to his potential, and faults lie at a million different places. The player himself? The management? The coach? Teammates? Fans? Media? Time? Really hard to tell.

Btw. would someone please check wikipedia - Gourcuff stats? It says Gourcuff played 56 matches and scored 21 goals for Milan! So please, don't come to me with the excuse he didn't play too much!

Trust Wikipedia at your own peril - that's my motto! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif) One has to judge what's right and wrong there, it's such a place. You can't even trust regular websites these days, let alone community places like Wikipedia.

[gal_kenny]

I can't wait for Gourcuff to come back..we need players that are consistent..pato, kaka(most times), beckham(so far)...we need players that are consistent and Gourcuff has been one of those players...I really and truely hope he comes back..I hope he's listening to us (milanfans)..GORKY COME BAK PLSSSS!!!!

[dst]

I still don't get why this discussion has to be SO ****ING BIASED!!! Why does it have to be either that Carlo destroyed his career (hey check he's still playing and he's been scouted by the biggest European clubs so you're being silly) or that he's not good enough (if you're saying he's not good enough to come ahead of Brocchi when we need a creative sub you're being silly).

The truth is again somewhere in the middle... Gourcuff was not given enough chances in his second season but he did not send the would on fire in his first one either. Carletto will always pick an experienced player ahead of a not-so-explosive youngster but he did not exactly ruin Gourcuff's career. I'm sure he would not have been loaned out if he did not want to himself.

[Zed.D]

I still don't get why this discussion has to be SO ****ING BIASED!!! Why does it have to be either that Carlo destroyed his career (hey check he's still playing and he's been scouted by the biggest European clubs so you're being silly) or that he's not good enough (if you're saying he's not good enough to come ahead of Brocchi when we need a creative sub you're being silly).

Are you referring to me? because I think I made it clear what I think, it's not either-or. I had said before that Yoann lacked confidence and needed someone to take his hand [unlike, say, Pato]. but I think Carlo has his share of faults too...

I'm not pissed off because we're losing him. we went on without Sheva, we will go on without Yoann too. but when I see some put ALL of the blame on Yoann, I get kinda angry! there's should be a limit in everything. Ancelotti is not GOD. people need to understand he might have had a part in this failure too. more than one or two people in this world believe that so it's not a completely baseless sentiment.

[dst]

No that was not aimed at you, that was aimed at all of us.

Watching him in France and lamenting his loan by saying he would do the same in Serie A is biased as is ignoring the stats and saying he was given enough time to prove his worth last season.

There are facts here and they have to be acknowledged. Gourcuff was not given a fair chance in his second season at Milan but he did not exactly do with us what he does for Bordeuax now.

Unless we all agree on the only things we know for sure this discussion is worthless than a hairstyler is to Seedorf.

[whoarethepatriot...]

No that was not aimed at you, that was aimed at all of us.

Watching him in France and lamenting his loan by saying he would do the same in Serie A is biased as is ignoring the stats and saying he was given enough time to prove his worth last season.

There are facts here and they have to be acknowledged. Gourcuff was not given a fair chance in his second season at Milan but he did not exactly do with us what he does for Bordeuax now.

Unless we all agree on the only things we know for sure this discussion is worthless than a hairstyler is to Seedorf.

(IMG:http://www.wsoccer.com/players/s/seedorf_clarence/seedorf_clarence7.jpg)

[acid911]

PhotoShop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

[dst]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Ah... wish he had not cut it... he was much better then!

[Zed.D]

Isn't time to close this thread and start the summer transfer window thread?

[acid911]

Isn't time to close this thread and start the summer transfer window thread?

Isn't that done already? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I mean the new thread: Summer 2009 Transfer Window

[Zed.D]

Isn't that done already? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I mean the new thread: Summer 2009 Transfer Window

Yeah, I hadn't seen that.

[Tennie]

Given that the transfer window is closed, it's appropriate that this thread be closed.

Transfer discussions can be continued in the Summer 2009 Transfer Thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)