[han2503]

I don't. Top class CFs can score even without service.

I personally cannot see a Cavani or Costa being as great as they are if they don't get good service.

Ibra is completely different though, he's just as much a creator as he is a striker

I personally believe that if you brought in either Costa or Cavani into this team and leave the rest of the squad as is they'd flop hard.

Torres is not as great as he used to be, no arguments there. But I never really saw him as an Ibra type striker, I'd put him more in the Costa/Cavani bag than the Ibra one, so to not only ask him to score now but to expect some sort of all-round thing from him while he's in decline would not be fair. So I do sympathise with him because I do feel like he's struggling more because of our lack of creativity more than anything else

[Danny]

Suarez. He WAS Liverpool. Now he's gone and they're shite.

Want more examples?

[han2503]

Suarez. He WAS Liverpool. Now he's gone and they're shite.

Want more examples?

Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

[X-Offender]

Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

Cavani plays wide at PSG when Ibra is not out injured/suspended.

[kurtsimonw]

Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

Suarez was pretty much an inside forward/winger the entirety of last season. Sturridge played through the middle. As for Liverpool this season, Sturridge has only played 3 games so far this season, they did just fine with Suarez last season.

[Fillipo Simone]

Ibrahimovic is a screamer of an example. As was Torres in his heyday. People forget how sh*t that Liverpool actually was, 2005 aside.

But I also take Han's point about midfield service. Fact is Torres ISN'T a top class CF now, and needs help.

We all have an idea of what the ultimate (current) Milan team would line up as: De Jong, MvG, Bonaventura, Monto. 3 of those 4. Menez and SES flanking Torres as a 3 striker prong. There would be service there.

But we're stuck with Essien, Muntari and Honda so basically, what's the point in whining. Pippo's gonna do what Pippo's gonna do.

So in the light what you said, Okaka is a world class CF alla Ibrahimović for you?

And I don't see how you can disagree. You say Liverpool was shite, but you easily forget that their midfield consisted of Gerrard, Xabi Alonso plus players like Hamann or Berger. Well maybe it isn't especially fancy, but man is this miles ahead of the creative forces of Montolivo, de Jong, Poli and Muntari.

And sure, top class CF's in form can do the work by themselves. But; firstly a prima punta rarely does. Ibra was never the typical prima punta. Torres, yes, but then you see he never had an actually bad service midfield - and you can also argue that his decline started with the decline of Liverpools midfield quality. And secondly, being reduced to Ibra is part of todays problem as well, it's what Allegri didn't mind turning Milan into. And now it's part of our mentality problem.

Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.

[han2503]

Cavani plays wide at PSG when Ibra is not out injured/suspended.

He hasn't done that in a while though since Ibra's been injured and it's only now that he's playing through the centre that he's scoring regularly again. They were dubbing him a failure after last season

[X-Offender]

Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.

Who said we don't need those? Midfield is our worst department. But signing a CF doesn't exclude signing quality midfielders.

He hasn't done that in a while though since Ibra's been injured and it's only now that he's playing through the centre that he's scoring regularly again. They were dubbing him a failure after last season

Point is he's not so limited as you imply. Most CFs nowadays are not in the mold of Inzaghi, Crespo, Gilardino, Pazzini, Matri etc. Those are poachers. People like Suarez, Diego Costa, Cavani, Benzema etc. are CFs that are not 100% reliant on service, but can also make things happen on their own. And I think Okaka falls more into the later category, even though obviously he's not near as good as the names I mentioned.

[han2503]

Point is he's not so limited as you imply. Most CFs nowadays are not in the mold of Inzaghi, Crespo, Gilardino, Pazzini, Matri etc. Those are poachers. People like Suarez, Diego Costa, Cavani, Benzema etc. are CFs that are not 100% reliant on service, but can also make things happen on their own. And I think Okaka falls more into the later category, even though obviously he's not near as good as the names I mentioned.

Notice that during my first reply I said that players like Cavani or Costa will create but without good service behind them they wouldn't score anywhere near the amount of goals that they do

I never said that either Cavani or Costa are limited. They're great strikers, certainly not poachers in the Pippo/Gila/Pazzo mould.

But they're not prolific creators either, therefore they need a creatively strong midfield behind them for them to rack up the kind of goal tallies that they do.

Suarez and Benzema are more all-rounders for me, especially Suarez, they're very capable of both starting or finishing an attacking move. And while I do agree with you that both Costa and Cavani can do this as well, they won't do it on a regular basis like a Suarez or Ibra does, their best asset is scoring.

So I still stand by my point, bring Cavani or Costa here and leave the rest of the team as is and they'd struggle. I don't for one second believe that they'd be able to come into this team and do what Ibra did.

I'm not saying this is an either/or issue, but the initial point of this discussion was that a better striker would fix some of our issues, and personally I just don't think that's the case at all

[Danny]

So in the light what you said, Okaka is a world class CF alla Ibrahimović for you?

wtf

I've made no comment on Okaka.

And I don't see how you can disagree. You say Liverpool was shite, but you easily forget that their midfield consisted of Gerrard, Xabi Alonso plus players like Hamann or Berger. Well maybe it isn't especially fancy, but man is this miles ahead of the creative forces of Montolivo, de Jong, Poli and Muntari.

wtf

I said the current Liverpool, not one from 2005.

And sure, top class CF's in form can do the work by themselves. But; firstly a prima punta rarely does. Ibra was never the typical prima punta. Torres, yes, but then you see he never had an actually bad service midfield - and you can also argue that his decline started with the decline of Liverpools midfield quality. And secondly, being reduced to Ibra is part of todays problem as well, it's what Allegri didn't mind turning Milan into. And now it's part of our mentality problem.

wtf

PSG under Carlo and Blanc are doing the same thing, as did Ajax and Juve and Inter and every club he's been at, Barca aside.

Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.

wtf

I never said I wanted Okaka.

[Danny]

Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

Cavani has been on the wing his entire time at PSG.

[han2503]

Cavani has been on the wing his entire time at PSG.

He was on the wing last season because of Ibra. Ibra has been injured this season and Cavani is playing in the centre and finally really shining as he did at Napoli, while after last season (playing on the wing as you said) he was already getting dubbed a failure and someone PSG wanted to sell.

[Danny]

Not sure I'd say 6 in 13 for PSG is shining.

Decent, but for someone once dubbed a 'top 3' striker on earth, it's not that impressive. Especially for a team that good in a 'relatively' weaker league.

[han2503]

Not sure I'd say 6 in 13 for PSG is shining.

Decent, but for someone once dubbed a 'top 3' striker on earth, it's not that impressive. Especially for a team that good in a 'relatively' weaker league.

It's better than last season as the general view on him is far more positive than it was last imo. He was getting a lot of shtick last season

[Danny]

Yeah he was rubbish last season.