[han2503]

Like I said in my post, De Jong at least did track back but pegged the danger too late - where was Monto? Half way line doing absolutely nothing.

And the goal itself was a collaboration of about 5 or 6 failings in truth - all defensive. But the gap between Mexes and Bonera was just comical.

I think in this case it's easy to place blame on an individual, or even multiple ones, but the problem is that Menez lost possession when we were pressing forward. So most players were caught off guard, as soon as the ball was turned over by Menez who back healed it to an opponent, the players tried to get back but because they were all seemingly in "relaxed" mode because we were in possession and had it not been for Menez's showboating we would have kept that possession they were caught off guard

I'm not saying it's right that they were in that relaxed mode, but the goal came about because of Menez's mistake. When you lose the ball in that area of the pitch you're always at risk.

And we tend to do this a lot. Muntari, Essien, Poli have all been major culprits in this. They're spaced out and send the ball to no one in the most dangerous areas. And usually for some reason we get out of jail, but at some point you're bound to get punished for it. And it's not just those 3. There's an air of indifference, lack of concentration, just being plain old spaced out at times from all our players

Most chances that our opponents create come about because of mistakes on the part of our own players, mistakes that at this level should not be made

[Fillipo Simone]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

[Danny]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

Han has a curious inability to aportion any blame to Monto or Mexes. I will whine about my favourites when they f*ck up (Cerci was an abomination and I gave Zapata pelters for the Coppa match) but Han struggles to.

And it's not an attack on you Han, just an observation.

[han2503]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

Yeah, Monto has been bad in these last 3 games, no question. He made a bad pass that could have cost us as well but it wasn't punished.

Monto came back from injury and looked great, we return from the break and it's like he's a completely different player, that being said, the entire squad has returned from the break in terrible form and with an even worse attitude

Monto has been mostly pedestrian imo. He's not committing mistakes that catch the eye. He's just not influential. The games he played before the break there was a clear difference in how he improved our play, now he's just inconsequential to it.

@ Danny, I'm not reluctant to say anything about my favourites.

That being said, Mexes was one of the few good ones yesterday, so I don't get what point you're trying to make with him

However, as you can see I've been reluctant to place blame on any single individual, even the ones I'm not particularly a fan of (Cerci).

The problem lies so far away from individuals that atm I feel it's pointless to even mention each player one at a time. All of them are under performing, all of them are showing a lack of commitment atm, not just one or two players.

At this point my only point is Pippo, he needs to be let go, this is just not acceptable, it's just as unacceptable as Allegri was imo, and dragging this out like we did with Allegri will only continue to hurt this team even more

[Fillipo Simone]

Yeah, Monto has been bad in these last 3 games, no question. He made a bad pass that could have cost us as well but it wasn't punished.

Monto came back from injury and looked great, we return from the break and it's like he's a completely different player, that being said, the entire squad has returned from the break in terrible form and with an even worse attitude

Agreed again. But say, when did Monto look great? I think it's partly a myth, he had made one or two good matches. Was he MoM? Did he do anything concrete to be great?

Monto has been mostly pedestrian imo. He's not committing mistakes that catch the eye. He's just not influential. The games he played before the break there was a clear difference in how he improved our play, now he's just inconsequential to it.

Sorry, his mistakes caught my eye. His absolutely stunningly poor goal shooting, his imprecise passing and on top of it his dangerous give-aways. And I would buy that "he's come from an injury" excuse the moment you mentioned it, if only I did not know that "inconsequential" and "inconsistently average" has Monto written all over it, from day one at Milan.

[han2503]

Agreed again. But say, when did Monto look great? I think it's partly a myth, he had made one or two good matches. Was he MoM? Did he do anything concrete to be great?



Sorry, his mistakes caught my eye. His absolutely stunningly poor goal shooting, his imprecise passing and on top of it his dangerous give-aways. And I would buy that "he's come from an injury" excuse the moment you mentioned it, if only I did not know that "inconsequential" and "inconsistently average" has Monto written all over it, from day one at Milan.

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

I think those games vs these last 3 show a very clear slump in how he's playing, a complete nose dive in form and when he's playing like this, yes I agree, he becomes inconsequential to our game and doesn't add anything to it. However I disagree that this has been the case from day one. He had a very good first season with us. Last season was average at best and this season he's spent half of it out injured.

I get that you say that the injury is an "excuse" but you have to factor in that he is returning from a very serious leg fracture that required knee surgery to correct. Most players take an entire year to recover from that and start playing with any sort of consistency. Most never really return back to their old selves. Think David Villa, Wilshire, etc. I know people simply cannot accept this as an excuse because we're in a position were we can't afford to have him not playing well, we don't really have a back up so his failings are magnified even more.

[Danny]

@ Danny, I'm not reluctant to say anything about my favourites.

That being said, Mexes was one of the few good ones yesterday, so I don't get what point you're trying to make with him

However, as you can see I've been reluctant to place blame on any single individual, even the ones I'm not particularly a fan of (Cerci).

The problem lies so far away from individuals that atm I feel it's pointless to even mention each player one at a time. All of them are under performing, all of them are showing a lack of commitment atm, not just one or two players.

At this point my only point is Pippo, he needs to be let go, this is just not acceptable, it's just as unacceptable as Allegri was imo, and dragging this out like we did with Allegri will only continue to hurt this team even more

My point re: Mexes is you never criticise his bad performances, instead spinning it that he was great/good. He can do no wrong in your eyes beyond being 'occasionally hotheaded'. At least you admit Monto's a travesty. So 1 out of 2 ain't bad and I'll take it.

[han2503]

My point re: Mexes is you never criticise his bad performances, instead spinning it that he was great/good. He can do no wrong in your eyes beyond being 'occasionally hotheaded'. At least you admit Monto's a travesty. So 1 out of 2 ain't bad and I'll take it.

Point me to one single bad game this season and you'll have the 2 out of 2. The only iffy performance he's had was last week against Toro, but he was far from bad, just not on his usual game, and as you may probably remember I certainly didn't say he was good/great in that one

[Danny]

Point me to one single bad game this season and you'll have the 2 out of 2. The only iffy performance he's had was last week against Toro, but he was far from bad, just not on his usual game, and as you may probably remember I certainly didn't say he was good/great in that one

See? When he's bad you spin it as 'iffy'.

[X-Offender]

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

No offense, but that's horseshit. Keeps the ball moving? Controls the tempo? He does no such things. He's a useless dud, as useless as Muntari. He's never been anything impressive with this shirt. Only one decent season doesn't make you a good, reliable player. At best he can be a DM that breaks play and makes the simple pass, but even at that I wouldn't put much faith him. The fact that he's considered the "playmaker" of our team makes me shudder in disgust.

[Fillipo Simone]

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

I think those games vs these last 3 show a very clear slump in how he's playing, a complete nose dive in form and when he's playing like this, yes I agree, he becomes inconsequential to our game and doesn't add anything to it. However I disagree that this has been the case from day one. He had a very good first season with us. Last season was average at best and this season he's spent half of it out injured.

Very good first seasons? How tangible is that? What did he exactly make to be very good? I still think you've gotta do assists and goals to be very good in this game for a season, even a deep midfielder. You have some rare exemptions like Effenberg or Pirlo, but first, you look at their stats and you still see their contribution and secondly they add much more then just "tempo" and "moving the ball around". You like Montolivo, and out of all our midfielders, he may be the most talented one. But it's not enough. In fact, looking back, I hardly can find any past or present player like Montolivo, who sort of is our key midfielder but does not contribute with key stats. Can you name me one such (good) player?

Look at our midfield. You have Montolivo and NDJ who are practically vaccinated from being dangerous for the opposition. You can easily let Monto shoot around or cross the ball, because he rarely hits the target. Same for NDJ. You know how problematic this is? Players like Davids and Gattuso used to make up for this problem with giving their ins and outs, playing like pitbulls. Do you see this in Monto? Well, only when we play Barcelona.

I get that you say that the injury is an "excuse" but you have to factor in that he is returning from a very serious leg fracture that required knee surgery to correct. Most players take an entire year to recover from that and start playing with any sort of consistency. Most never really return back to their old selves. Think David Villa, Wilshire, etc. I know people simply cannot accept this as an excuse because we're in a position were we can't afford to have him not playing well, we don't really have a back up so his failings are magnified even more.

But no, I get the whole injured thing. But problem is: Montolivo is back and I honestly think this is his old self, a recuperated Montolivo. I don't think it has anything to do with the injury. This was his problem all the way, he never once showed 3 good performances in a row, never actually worked his *** off or made some tangible contributions.

No offense, but that's horseshit. Keeps the ball moving? Controls the tempo? He does no such things. He's a useless dud, as useless as Muntari. He's never been anything impressive with this shirt. Only one decent season doesn't make you a good, reliable player. At best he can be a DM that breaks play and makes the simple pass, but even at that I wouldn't put much faith him. The fact that he's considered the "playmaker" of our team makes me shudder in disgust.

No man, Muntari is on another level. But yes, you got it right, playmaker my ***. Just think of Boban, Albertini, Rui Costa and Pirlo. Now put in Montolivo and you can instantly shoot yourself.

[Danny]

tbh Monto isn't like any of them Pippo. He has never been portrayed as a DLP, or a borderline treq, even if he's been played as both occasionally.

What he is is a dreadfully poor man's Gerrard. That kind of supposed 'pulling the strings' general in midfield, calming things, leading midfield, playing the right pass.

He's supposed to be that but he's not even doing that now.

[X-Offender]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

[d'Arc.LP]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

Well every team has it's ups and downs. I think there will be some years, hopefully not decades till (if) we get where we were. If you take a look at football history every team has had some bad years. The important thing is that we get back.

[X-Offender]

Well every team has it's ups and downs. I think there will be some years, hopefully not decades till (if) we get where we were. If you take a look at football history every team has had some bad years. The important thing is that we get back.

Things will definitely take a turn after Silvio kicks the bucket. Whether they will take a turn for the good or for the bad, that's unknown. Some teams have had downs and have not been able to recover since.