[acid911]

We had a side capable of winning (inclusive of the best CB in the world & argubaly the best CF)

Nothing arguable about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

[X-Offender]

I can understand where you're coming from, as I believe everyone has similar feelings, especially concerning Balo.

But like I said, if by some miracle management were going to fund this meracato in such a way that the fans were optimistic again (as in 2010), who is to say that the success we expect would follow?

And even so, what's to stop them from ripping away our progress (even after possible success in the league or otherwise were to follow), just as they did with Ibra & Thiago, when they can no longer afford to absorb the cost of having top players?

We had a side capable of winning (inclusive of the best CB in the world & argubaly the best CF)

But when the going got rough, we sold them just like that for quick cash (for cheap).

What's going to be different this time??!

So, you're suggesting that we stay as we are? If so, why even bother?

[han2503]

That's Italy's version of the 'rich tax'.

In effect Milan are NOT paying 4M, Mexes is. It's just that the government thieve 50% of higher earners' wages so players won't tolerate a wage which ends up with a net pay half of what they think they're entitled to.

So Mexes gets 8M and he (not Milan, although I stand corrected if it's the club who pay it) pays half to the government, leaving 4M in his pocket.

Just like every other high-earning player in Italy.

Precisely the same as Arshavin demanding a renegotiated contract for Arsenal when the £150,000+ tax came into effect. He demanded more money because the government suddenly decided to tax 50% of anyone earning over £150k per year.

I assume the technical details you've been discussing are much the same for Mexes and Italian players as they are in UK.

Well yeah, in effect they get cut out of Mexes's pay check, but at the end of the day, that's just a technicality as Milan are paying the money, to give Mexes the money that he's entitled to as per his contract, as you so rightly put it

[han2503]

So, our interest is official. Nice. If we get Iturbe and someone like Negredo or Mandzukic this would be the best mercato since 2010.

Why would we go and buy Iturbe though? Where is he going to fit in seeing as there is SES and Menez as well now and Pippo will most likely go for a 4-3-3.

And really, Negredo or Mandzukic? Where is the money coming from if we're already going to be spend 3/4 of the money we'll earn from Balo's sale on Iturbe?

And anyway, Mandzukic has already reiterated that he only wants to go to a club with CL football

I still kind of want Balo to stay...

I really like the fact that we have a young, talented Italian CF (....his alternative for me would have been G. Rossi, but as unlikely as that is, he is also a serous gamble with his injuries).

Further to this, I don't believe Balo has been 'that bad' for us.


Also, I don't see how we're going to be able to afford Iturbe at 25 mil (let alone another top class CF - even with the possible sale of Balo)... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

When have we EVER reinvested all our income from a transfer sale back into the same window?

Regardless of Berlusconi possibly funding Iturbe (which I don't get given our whole, complying with FFP, and with our plan of being self sufficient etc etc.; then again it won't be the first time our managment has been hypocritical and lied to the fans in recent years)

Without CL, I really think we have a good enough attacking squad to get into the top 3, and continue building a squad for the future. I don't want another 'great' transfer window to be in vain (ala Ibra & co.), essentially a couple steps forward and even way more back a couple seasons after when we realize funds are low again and have to sell.

Rumors or Iturbe etc. are nice and all, but the more I think about it, the more worried I'm getting about if it were to happen, how exactly it'll be accomplished, and the domino effect it would have on the club a couple seasons after.

</rant>

Agreed

So, you're suggesting that we stay as we are? If so, why even bother?

I don't think Trini is suggesting that we stay as we are, but that the money should be spent A LOT more wisely than this.

Our biggest problematic area so far has barely been mentioned in the media. What are they going to do about that midfield, especially if we're going to be using 3 in the centre again.

Monto is probably going to be out for an entire season because even if he can play the last 2 months or so of the season he'll need a lot of time to get anywhere near back to full fitness. De Jong is still a huge question mark, Essien is unreliable and will probably be moved on. Aside from Poli that midfield is bare to the bones atm, If we do sell Balo I want to see a decent chunk of that money being re-invested into that midfield

And anyway, I think any rumours about Balo are completely premature, I'm 100% sure that we won't sell him (if that's the intention) until the WC is over for Italy (which could be as soon as next week mind you)

[X-Offender]

Why would we go and buy Iturbe though? Where is he going to fit in seeing as there is SES and Menez as well now and Pippo will most likely go for a 4-3-3.

Especially because we're playing 4-3-3 we need to sign many wingers. You think SES and Menez is enough? If one of them gets injured, who do we play? Honda? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And really, Negredo or Mandzukic? Where is the money coming from if we're already going to be spend 3/4 of the money we'll earn from Balo's sale on Iturbe?

If we get £35 million for Balo, then we can sign Iturbe and use the rest of the money, plus the money from the smaller sales and some of our own to fund the striker signing.

And anyway, Mandzukic has already reiterated that he only wants to go to a club with CL football

Latest rumors I read said that Mandzukic is very close to signing for Wolfsburg, which finished 5th in the Bundesliga.

I don't think Trini is suggesting that we stay as we are, but that the money should be spent A LOT more wisely than this.

Our biggest problematic area so far has barely been mentioned in the media. What are they going to do about that midfield, especially if we're going to be using 3 in the centre again.

Monot is probably going to be out for an entire season because even if he can play the last 2 months or so of the season he'll need a lot of time to get anywhere near back to full fitness. De Jong is still a huge question mark, Essien is unreliable and will probably be moved on. Aside from Polo that midfield is bare to the bones at, If we do see Balo I want to see a decent chunk of that money being re-invested into that midfield

And anyway, I think any rumours about Balo are completely premature, I'm 100% sure that we won't sell him (if that's the intention) until the WC is over for Italy (which could be as soon as next week mind you)

I disagree. The area that needs more work is the attack. Having SES, Menez, Iturbe and, say, Negredo would be a huge improvement that would make the difference for us.

We only need one signing in midfield, as we're covered with De Jong, Poli and Honda, Cristante and Muntari, and in defense with Abate, De Sciglio, Mexes, Rami, Alex and Zapata.

[han2503]

Especially because we're playing 4-3-3 we need to sign many wingers. You think SES and Menez is enough? If one of them gets injured, who do we play? Honda? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And you think one of them will be okay with sitting games out and being the back-up/rotation player?

If we get £35 million for Balo, then we can sign Iturbe and use the rest of the money, plus the money from the smaller sales and some of our own to fund the striker signing.

And still no midfielder to replace Monto...

Latest rumors I read said that Mandzukic is very close to signing for Wolfsburg, which finished 5th in the Bundesliga.

At least they have some form of European football...

I disagree. The area that needs more work is the attack. Having SES, Menez, Iturbe and, say, Negredo would be a huge improvement that would make the difference for us.

We only need one signing in midfield, as we're covered with De Jong, Poli and Honda, Cristante and Muntari, and in defense with Abate, De Sciglio, Mexes, Rami, Alex and Zapata.

If we do sell Balo, yes, it will need more work, but imo, Midfield and FB are very thin. FB we have quality options but as soon as Abate or DS go down we're in deep sh!t.

Also you're making the assumption that Honda will be used as a CM, which imo is something that will most likely not happen. Therefore we only have Poli and De Jong (who could be sold) who are good enough to be starting. Muntari will be used as rotation and same goes for Cristante, he won't be starting a lot of games next season, so we still need someone who will be good enough to be an undisputed starter in that midfield 3

[X-Offender]

And you think one of them will be okay with sitting games out and being the back-up/rotation player?

Yes, just like Fabregas was a rotation player at Barça, Isco at Madrid, Shaqiri at Bayern etc. Rotation is one of the most common concepts in football. Menez is not Messi. He knows he'll have to fight for his place. And besides, SES is coming from a year-long injury. Who knows how his approach will be.

And still no midfielder to replace Monto...

Like I said, one more signing in midfield.

At least they have some form of European football...

Yes, because Wolfsburg is a better choice than Milan simply because they're playing the EL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If we do sell Balo, yes, it will need more work, but imo, Midfield and FB are very thin. FB we have quality options but as soon as Abate or DS go down we're in deep sh!t.

Also you're making the assumption that Honda will be used as a CM, which imo is something that will most likely not happen. Therefore we only have Poli and De Jong (who could be sold) who are good enough to be starting. Muntari will be used as rotation and same goes for Cristante, he won't be starting a lot of games next season, so we still need someone who will be good enough to be an undisputed starter in that midfield 3

Let's wait and see, Han. Maybe Honda will play as CM, or maybe we'll sign someone else to replace Monto. Why do you have to be so rash? Things seem to be going in a good direction, might as well be optimistic for once.

[han2503]

Yes, just like Fabregas was a rotation player at Barça, Isco at Madrid, Shaqiri at Bayern etc. Rotation is one of the most common concepts in football. Menez is not Messi. He knows he'll have to fight for his place. And besides, SES is coming from a year-long injury. Who knows how his approach will be.

And those players are/were playing second fiddle at clubs like Barca, Real and Bayern while one of these guys would be doing so at Milan. I think there's a huge difference.

Yes, because Wolfsburg is a better choice than Milan simply because they're playing the EL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If they're willing to offer more money then they obviously are for him. Aren't Wolfsburg the VW club? And maybe he doesn't want to leave Germany either

Let's wait and see, Han. Maybe Honda will play as CM, or maybe we'll sign someone else to replace Monto. Why do you have to be so rash? Things seem to be going in a good direction, might as well be optimistic for once.

Why is it me being rash? Atm, the rumours floating around aren't all that exciting. Iturbe is the only one that's interesting, the other stuff we're hearing is far from pleasing.

And personally I just feel like every summer this management only looks at the attack when they're looking to spend any money, the other important areas (and imo they're even more important than attack) are always neglected. Simply because they aren't "marquee" signings that allow Silvio to blow smoke up his own @ss.

When was the last time we signed a great midfielder? or a great CB/FB?

[TriniKing_CE]

So, you're suggesting that we stay as we are? If so, why even bother?

Well yes, in a sense, but first let me attempt to explain my reasoning...

Now first off, I understand that Pippo is likely to go into next season with a 4-3-3 formation.

As it stands... 'Collectively' we already have a different attack up top compared to last season (Menez is a fresh new signing, SES was more or less absent all of last season, and well Balo is the one who has been the permanent piece to our side most recently)

I get that there are doubts over whether Balo can become impactful & consistent for us. His time is 'running out' as his age increases and he has less to show for it. However, in football (life) there are no guarantees, and so just how we'd be taking a chance on new arrivals (be it Iturbe, or anyone else), I think the wisest move, if only financially would be to keep our so called mediocre but satisfactory attacked for another season, and if need be (as you said) fund one more arrival in attack from other sales & savings on wages from departures.

Now don't confuse what I've said on the matter so far as a simple open & shut case though, as I assure you it isn't.
I am partly on the fence over whether if I was in the position to make such decisions - take the rumored 30-35mil for a striker who has been somewhat inconsistent and seemingly unmotivated at times, or keep him in the team.
That offer might very well, be the most we get for him should he have another lackluster season, but should he be given one more chance (just like SES) they can also both have a mag of a season as well.... Who knows?

It's a long shot maybe - but it's not impossible (I like to dream...)

Honestly I think I'd prefer we waited another season and eventually lost out on a little extra cash in the future, than to lose patience on a player that we should've already known would've taken us time to get the best out of (when we chose to invest in just 2 seasons ago).

It would be a lot worse to see another team reap the hopeful rewards of this potential world beater.




So were playing 4-3-3 next season and one of SES or Menez gets injured. What then?

Well...

It would be an inconvenience, but I'm not certain it would be the end of the world, we can adapt and change formation, or if need be get someone to fill an unfamiliar role temporarily. Besides , something tells me we're going to get Iturbe or another winger one way or another (...regardless of the Balotelli situation)

I don't know how (or why I'm even paying any mind to) the Berlusconi family saying the plan to invest in Milan again with respect to transfers and so forth changes from any of the other lies we've been fed before... but I believe it in some way as I think they're overdue; and considering they came out on their own and said that.

Well yeah... I'm hoping it's true.

Even though, it's possibly nothing more than blind hope and optimism on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)



Being so early in the transfer season (which hasn't even officially started yet), and with the World Cup and all still going on, I don't see much need to worry though, as the team hasn't even fully finished their plans for next season, and we don't even fully know all of who's going to to be staying and who's going just yet.

That being said whatever happens, I don't see myself losing sleep over the side changing faces yet again (Lord knows its been doing that for a while now anyway). As long as we can reestablish ourselves as competitive, with a young team for the future I believe I'll (we should) be happy.

What I won't be able to cope with is seeing us give up on our promising youth, cash in on them now for quick fixes, and have to stomach seeing them show their full potential at some other clubs as they flourish into World Class players.

That and (as I have mentioned above in another post) a repeat of the Ibra fiasco. Immediate improvement & even some success only to be scuffed, once we realize we can no longer afford it.

That would suck!!!

[TriniKing_CE]

Just read on MilanNews that an agreement has been made between Galliani & Peter Lim for Rami.

Rumored figured is said to be around 4.5mil


Also just read on FB that Milan are considering Eto'o.

I'm not in favor of this considering he's past his expiry date and likely to call for extremely high wages!

This post has been edited by TriniKing_CE: Jun 22 2014, 08:40 PM

[X-Offender]

And those players are/were playing second fiddle at clubs like Barca, Real and Bayern while one of these guys would be doing so at Milan. I think there's a huge difference.

Yes, as there’s a huge difference between the likes of Fabregas and Isco, and Menez.

I don’t get you. Are you suggesting that we just keep SES and Menez as starters, and have someone like Birsa as sub? We need quantity and quality, and having at least three decent wingers is a must if we want to compete for 3rd place or higher.

If they're willing to offer more money then they obviously are for him. Aren't Wolfsburg the VW club? And maybe he doesn't want to leave Germany either

Now you’re contradicting yourself. First you say he wants a CL club, now it’s about the money. In reality, you don’t know for sure what the guy really wants. He’s only said that he wants to leave Bayern, that’s all we know. Don’t make baseless assumptions.

Why is it me being rash? Atm, the rumours floating around aren't all that exciting. Iturbe is the only one that's interesting, the other stuff we're hearing is far from pleasing.

And personally I just feel like every summer this management only looks at the attack when they're looking to spend any money, the other important areas (and imo they're even more important than attack) are always neglected. Simply because they aren't "marquee" signings that allow Silvio to blow smoke up his own @ss.

When was the last time we signed a great midfielder? or a great CB/FB?

We signed Alex and Menez, we’re officially after Iturbe and have been linked with a few quality strikers. And we’re only in June. Usually we must wait till August to see something happening. What have the other clubs accomplished by now? You’re already criticizing the management when it’s only been less than a month since the season ended. Be more patient. That's all I'm asking.

[X-Offender]

Well yes, in a sense, but first let me attempt to explain my reasoning...

Now first off, I understand that Pippo is likely to go into next season with a 4-3-3 formation.

As it stands... 'Collectively' we already have a different attack up top compared to last season (Menez is a fresh new signing, SES was more or less absent all of last season, and well Balo is the one who has been the permanent piece to our side most recently)

I get that there are doubts over whether Balo can become impactful & consistent for us. His time is 'running out' as his age increases and he has less to show for it. However, in football (life) there are no guarantees, and so just how we'd be taking a chance on new arrivals (be it Iturbe, or anyone else), I think the wisest move, if only financially would be to keep our so called mediocre but satisfactory attacked for another season, and if need be (as you said) fund one more arrival in attack from other sales & savings on wages from departures.

Now don't confuse what I've said on the matter so far as a simple open & shut case though, as I assure you it isn't.
I am partly on the fence over whether if I was in the position to make such decisions - take the rumored 30-35mil for a striker who has been somewhat inconsistent and seemingly unmotivated at times, or keep him in the team.
That offer might very well, be the most we get for him should he have another lackluster season, but should he be given one more chance (just like SES) they can also both have a mag of a season as well.... Who knows?

It's a long shot maybe - but it's not impossible (I like to dream...)

Honestly I think I'd prefer we waited another season and eventually lost out on a little extra cash in the future, than to lose patience on a player that we should've already known would've taken us time to get the best out of (when we chose to invest in just 2 seasons ago).

It would be a lot worse to see another team reap the hopeful rewards of this potential world beater.




So were playing 4-3-3 next season and one of SES or Menez gets injured. What then?

Well...

It would be an inconvenience, but I'm not certain it would be the end of the world, we can adapt and change formation, or if need be get someone to fill an unfamiliar role temporarily. Besides , something tells me we're going to get Iturbe or another winger one way or another (...regardless of the Balotelli situation)

I don't know how (or why I'm even paying any mind to) the Berlusconi family saying the plan to invest in Milan again with respect to transfers and so forth changes from any of the other lies we've been fed before... but I believe it in some way as I think they're overdue; and considering they came out on their own and said that.

Well yeah... I'm hoping it's true.

Even though, it's possibly nothing more than blind hope and optimism on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)



Being so early in the transfer season (which hasn't even officially started yet), and with the World Cup and all still going on, I don't see much need to worry though, as the team hasn't even fully finished their plans for next season, and we don't even fully know all of who's going to to be staying and who's going just yet.

That being said whatever happens, I don't see myself losing sleep over the side changing faces yet again (Lord knows its been doing that for a while now anyway). As long as we can reestablish ourselves as competitive, with a young team for the future I believe I'll (we should) be happy.

What I won't be able to cope with is seeing us give up on our promising youth, cash in on them now for quick fixes, and have to stomach seeing them show their full potential at some other clubs as they flourish into World Class players.

That and (as I have mentioned above in another post) a repeat of the Ibra fiasco. Immediate improvement & even some success only to be scuffed, once we realize we can no longer afford it.

That would suck!!!

I respect your opinion, but I must thoroughly disagree. We need investments, and if the club is willing to splash some cash and get the likes of Iturbe and Negredo, then I'm all for it. Enough with the general mediocrity that's been accompanying this club for the last 3-4 years. For once I feel the club has a plan. Firing Seedorf so early and immediately hiring Pippo is a clear sign that we don't want to lose time.

Obviously everything could misfire, or we might just mess up as usual, but I want to be optimistic and hopeful. After such a disastrous season, if we keep being negative then there really is no point in even bothering to talk about the summer signing campaign.

And when you say us giving up on our promising youth, who exactly are you referring to?

[TriniKing_CE]

I respect your opinion, but I must thoroughly disagree. We need investments, and if the club is willing to splash some cash and get the likes of Iturbe and Negredo, then I'm all for it. Enough with the general mediocrity that's been accompanying this club for the last 3-4 years. For once I feel the club has a plan. Firing Seedorf so early and immediately hiring Pippo is a clear sign that we don't want to lose time.

Obviously everything could misfire, or we might just mess up as usual, but I want to be optimistic and hopeful. After such a disastrous season, if we keep being negative then there really is no point in even bothering to talk about the summer signing campaign.

And when you say us giving up on our promising youth, who exactly are you referring to?

Again, I can understand where you're coming from and I obviously won't be entirely disappointed if things were to play out as you're hoping for (with the acquisitions of Iturbe & another top striker)

Any reason why you keep mentioning Negredo though? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Have you read recently that we had interest in him, or is that just one of the players you'd like to replace Balo?


When I said 'promising youth' I was speaking in a general sense... be it Balo, SES, De Sciglio, Cristante etc.

[han2503]

Yes, as there’s a huge difference between the likes of Fabregas and Isco, and Menez.

I don’t get you. Are you suggesting that we just keep SES and Menez as starters, and have someone like Birsa as sub? We need quantity and quality, and having at least three decent wingers is a must if we want to compete for 3rd place or higher.

You have to consider that we also have other attacking players on our roster who aren't on a minimum wage type deal. Also, the fact that we only have Serie A football next season has to be considered when looking at our roster and the amount of personnel we have

Now you’re contradicting yourself. First you say he wants a CL club, now it’s about the money. In reality, you don’t know for sure what the guy really wants. He’s only said that he wants to leave Bayern, that’s all we know. Don’t make baseless assumptions.

How is it contradicting myself? I was going by something I read which you told me wasn't the case, so if he is in fact signing for Wolfsburg as you said then he has to have his reasons for doing so over signing for Milan. While yes it is a more prestigious name, it's a clubs going through turmoil atm that doesn't have CL football and resides in a league in decline.

If he's signing for a team that does not have CL football either over Milan than he will have his legit reasons for doing so. I just don't think he's really an option for us. That's all. His signing fee would probably cost us the entire sum we'd get for Balo

We signed Alex and Menez, we’re officially after Iturbe and have been linked with a few quality strikers. And we’re only in June. Usually we must wait till August to see something happening. What have the other clubs accomplished by now? You’re already criticizing the management when it’s only been less than a month since the season ended. Be more patient. That's all I'm asking.

We jumped on 2 free agents, nothing shocking there, it's what they do from now till end of August that's the issue.

I am patient, but I personally don't understand the strategy they're using here. We still have a squad weighed down with so many cr@p players that it WILL be an issue for us when it comes to bringing new blood in, just like it's always been the case recently since we've overloaded our squad with fodder.

We have many gaps in this side, and I really don't see attack as the priority atm, not until this Balo business is resolved

[Rossoneri7]

What? No, the club takes care of the taxes. So he earns 3m after the club pay his taxes

I didn't understand what you were trying to say in your initial post, according to those reports, he'll be earning 2.8m, the club handle the taxes. Just like Mexes for example earns his 4m, but the club take care of the taxes he has to pay on that 4m per year

Yes 2.8M is the new contract, but that is inclusive of taxes is what I am saying. He was on 3M a year, but took home 1.5M after taxes is what I am saying.

Kaka, Mexes, Balo all earn 8M gross, and take home 4M net.

Dont be confused by the club paying the taxes or the player, in the end the club has to shelve out the gross amount and not just the net amount. Hope that's clear for you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)