[Jack Bauer]

Italy shouldn't be playing with this system to begin with.

[han2503]

Who would you pick instead?

Ranocchia/Barzagli and Chiellini in a flat 4 formation. There are good FB options that Prandelli can choose, why he would play Bonucci and Barzagli together in a back 3 I'll never know.

I'm not sayng Barzagli is that bad, but you simply cannot play him in a 3 man defence when Bonucci is the other guy involved and there isn't even Chiellini to cover for them

To me it makes perfect sense to go with Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini. They're used to play in that system, they're used to playing with each other and given their performances over the last year it's hard to say they're bad players.

No it really doesn't make that much sense because doing good against mid-table Serie A teams is different from going out at international level and doing the same thing. The only really great player in that bunch is Chiellini, the other 2 are very limited players, only Barzagli had a really great season at Juve btw, Bonucci is a completely different story.

Also you have to look at the system as a whole, just because Juve play with a back 3 does not mean that it's the same system.

Italy shouldn't be playing with this system to begin with.

Agreed

[kurtsimonw]

No it really doesn't make that much sense because doing good against mid-table Serie A teams is different from going out at international level and doing the same thing.

Sorry han, that's very silly.

Juve had the best defense in Serie A last season and certainly the best Italian defenders. If they don't count because they only do it against Serie A teams, then surely that rules out every Serie A based defender.

I actually really like the 3-5-2 personally, especially the way Juve played it against Udinese with Giovinco slightly off the front, basically gives you 4 players in the middle to control play better.

[han2503]

Sorry han, that's very silly.

Juve had the best defense in Serie A last season and certainly the best Italian defenders. If they don't count because they only do it against Serie A teams, then surely that rules out every Serie A based defender.

I actually really like the 3-5-2 personally, especially the way Juve played it against Udinese with Giovinco slightly off the front, basically gives you 4 players in the middle to control play better.

It doesn't rule Serie A defenders out, but it's a completely different environment, and just because it works well in Juve's system does not mean that it will work well for the NT.

Bonucci imo is a terrible player, there are better options than him, even the Juve fans don't particularly like him. Barzagli had a great season but other than that he's not a particularly skilled defender in any sense of the word. I think playing next to someone like Chiellini benefits him a lot, which is why going out the way they did last night without someone like Chiellini to cover them was a mistake.

It's the same thing as what happened in the Euros against Spain in the summer. They face good opposition who are smart and can pass it around them and they get tied in knots. Give me one team in Serie A who can do that. The league is a different beast, 95% of the teams are inferior and Juve will have the ball possession advantage, thus less pressure on the defence, it's different when you don't have the ball and you're constantly under pressure, which was what happened last night in the second half. Bulgaria could have seriously made it emberassing for the Azzurri.

The same can be said for us for example.

You really think Juve's defenders could have put in the performance Nesta and Thiago did for us last season in all our encounters with Barca? Not a chance

[kurtsimonw]

Nests and Silva aren't available for the Italian NT, that was my point.

[Rossoneri7]

Nests and Silva aren't available for the Italian NT, that was my point.

True, that and it seems that 'historically' Juventus has contributed a lot to the NT. If we set aside the local rivalry between our Milan and Juventus, you would find that Juventus have contributed a lot to the NT success, even when they were demoted.

As for the three-man defense, Prandelli is brave to take on that concept scratching the Italian back four. Reaching the final in his girst tournament, I personally believe that should leave minimal room for criticism.

[Fillipo Simone]

Ahh, it's futile.

[kurtsimonw]

I think sometimes the quality of individuals is not important. Han may not rate Bonucci, but Gigi/Bonucci/Barzagli/Chiellini know each others game well and play in a back 3. Ranocchia and others may struggle (Ranoc did in Gasps short time at Inter) do if Prandelli wants to play with a back 3 it makes sense to use Juve players who're used to each other and the system.

Whether they Should be playing this way is debatable, but as R7 says above, Italy were a disaster in 2010 yet Prandelli lead them to the Euro Fonal and deserves a bit of time.

[han2503]

Nests and Silva aren't available for the Italian NT, that was my point.

I wasn't talking about them in the context of being in the NT but of how really great defenders handle teams who play such a smart passing game. Juv's player have never encountered that aside from against Spain, where they failed

I call it like I see it, and there is no way you can convince me that Bonucci starting is the best option for Italy, even if he does play regularly with the others at Juve, that does not automatically make him good enough for the NT.

True, that and it seems that 'historically' Juventus has contributed a lot to the NT. If we set aside the local rivalry between our Milan and Juventus, you would find that Juventus have contributed a lot to the NT success, even when they were demoted.

As for the three-man defense, Prandelli is brave to take on that concept scratching the Italian back four. Reaching the final in his girst tournament, I personally believe that should leave minimal room for criticism.

I really don't consider this a Milan vs Juve thing. Milan has contributed some of the best players in the history of the Azzurri as well so it really has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about picking someone only because he might have a good rapport with the other defenders instead of someone who is on the most basic technical level a better player and overall better defender.

As for the 3 man defense, Prandelli scrapped that within the first 2 games, and Italy put in their best performances with a back 4 consisting of Abate, Barzagli, Chiellini and Balzaretti against England and Germany.

I think it's ridiculous that he would use that system simply because Juve use it and it works for them. And don't even get me started on him using Giaccherini as a left wingback...

[dst]

I think sometimes the quality of individuals is not important. Han may not rate Bonucci, but Gigi/Bonucci/Barzagli/Chiellini know each others game well and play in a back 3. Ranocchia and others may struggle (Ranoc did in Gasps short time at Inter) do if Prandelli wants to play with a back 3 it makes sense to use Juve players who're used to each other and the system.

Whether they Should be playing this way is debatable, but as R7 says above, Italy were a disaster in 2010 yet Prandelli lead them to the Euro Fonal and deserves a bit of time.

I agree with that

[Fillipo Simone]

I'm talking about picking someone only because he might have a good rapport with the other defenders instead of someone who is on the most basic technical level a better player and overall better defender.

But you make it sound like Prandelli is avoiding Maldini. In fact, the only possible alternative is a former Serie B defender and Ranocchia. I don't think worlds separate those two. And if Prandelli has more faith in Bonucci, so be it.

None of the mentioned names really make a good defender. It's a shame Italy is reduced to such a poor selection. I don't have to remind you that the selection of players cut for the tournaments in 2000 or 1994 would have topped the present first team selection. Barzagli alone isn't that good, but the pairing with Bonucci makes both more comfortable and confident. Sure, if you had a great defender like Nesta put aside because of their good rapport - it would be insane. But Prandelli has limited options and he picks the one that wins - in Serie A.

You tell me that B-B are a good tandem against mid-table teams in Serie A? Well, they were good against Milan as well. I dislike them, I never will call them great or historical like some do, but they weren't exactly bad either. And really, Italy won't face many classy teams in the qualifications, most of the teams they'll be up with are just "mid-table Serie A" class teams.

[han2503]

But you make it sound like Prandelli is avoiding Maldini. In fact, the only possible alternative is a former Serie B defender and Ranocchia. I don't think worlds separate those two. And if Prandelli has more faith in Bonucci, so be it.

None of the mentioned names really make a good defender. It's a shame Italy is reduced to such a poor selection. I don't have to remind you that the selection of players cut for the tournaments in 2000 or 1994 would have topped the present first team selection. Barzagli alone isn't that good, but the pairing with Bonucci makes both more comfortable and confident. Sure, if you had a great defender like Nesta put aside because of their good rapport - it would be insane. But Prandelli has limited options and he picks the one that wins - in Serie A.

You tell me that B-B are a good tandem against mid-table teams in Serie A? Well, they were good against Milan as well. I dislike them, I never will call them great or historical like some do, but they weren't exactly bad either. And really, Italy won't face many classy teams in the qualifications, most of the teams they'll be up with are just "mid-table Serie A" class teams.

The problem is that you're thinking of them as a duo, when imo, Chiellini, who is Italy's strongest CB by a country-mile, should be partnering the second best options. IDEALLY in a back 4 system which works a hell of a lot better than the disjointed 3-5-2...

And the options, realistically speaking are (starting from the best) Chiellini, Barzagli, Ranocchia, Bonucci, Ogbonna

[X-Offender]

Guys, you're forgetting Acerbi...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[han2503]

Guys, you're forgetting Acerbi...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Ahh, yes the Diesel (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[han2503]

Italy - Malta in less then an hour. Let's see how many the Azzurri can put past my fellow headless chicken countrymen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)