[Zed.D]

I honestly don't get the Ibra doesn't like Pato gag. It's just something the crazy media came up with to have something to talk about negative, since at one point we were marching away to glory in the Serie A race. And we eat it up like sardines??!!

It's no secret that our best performing trident is Ibra-Cassano-Robinho. ANd that's not coz of some stupid reason like Allegri/Ibra doesn't like Pato. It's common sense.

One technical big man forward, one brilliant visionary of an SS and one effervescent CAM. If you want you can replace Ibra with Pato and I assume it would also be good. But that begs the age-old question why bench the man in form?



Secondly, Ibra is not showing up in big games?? And yet we call him the saviour? He dragged us through the group stages with his goals. He even 'scored' yesterday. It's I think a simple case of him being damned by his reputation...when the simple truth is like Beckham, like Ronaldo and dare I say like Cassano he has integrated himself well into the unit. Is he a dyed-in-wool rossoneri? No. But he's working his @ss off for the team, just like Robinho. I remember the image of a dehydrated Ibra, puking out there on the pitch after a match. He's left everything out there. ANd we can only say,"Oh that boy is trouble!!"

Finally on Pato....he came back from injury, I doubt his fitness and perhaps playing him from minute 1 and having him run around is not the best option I feel. As for playing with Ibra, he's already scored quite a few off Ibra's assists I think. And last evening when he came on, the grit, the resolve he showed is an aspect of him I've never seen before. He wanted to get involved with a passion and I think that's a great thing to see.

Sometimes benching a player can improve him. And I prefer to believe it when Allegri says it's tactical rather than personal. Pato himself has said he's happy here.

Finally Allegri's 'mistreatment' of R80. The new formation did not suit him. We got scrweed by Madrid primarily because we could not be compact with R80 in there. And his lack of propensity to track back and scrum it out meant the team as a whole were suffering. Ultimately, he lacked the motivation to change himself or to train when he couldn't play in the first XI, so he left.

And it's not like the team has been worse off for it.

90% agree! I feel Ibra doesn't like Pato and I haven't seen anything that proves this theory wrong. he's getting along because he's a professional, but for this partnership to really work like it should and be devastating, you need more than just that. as for the rest of your post, completely agreed.

-
-

Anyway, a few things:

- I watched the game from minute 20. yes we sucked balls in the 1st half but I thought we looked really good and determined in the 2nd half, created some good chances and all in all didn't deserve to lose this game.

- It's a disgrace that a mad clown wears the armband that once belonged to Paolo Maldini. I'm not just talking about kicking, punching and headbutting anything that came in his way, but at times during the game Rino showed the character of a sore loser, not a captain. acting like a total maniac after a simple challenge gone wrong is one of them.

- Milan with zero creativity in midfield (2nd half) > Milan with a creative midfielder named Seedorf (1st half). saddest fact ever! we've been saying how he's finished and shouldn't play anymore for some years now, but this really is it. he can't play top football.

- I don't care if I'm labeled a fanboy for saying it, but we improved so much when Pato came on. he has been accused of being selfish, lazy, with no sense of team work etc etc. but last night he proved otherwise. of course, he had his share of mistakes, but so did everyone else. credit to Max for not starting him from the beginning though, cause he probably would've showed a different attitude and made himself a target for more criticism. like Jack said, he needs to be benched like this sometimes. methinks he would've become a beast by now if he had a coach like SAF.

- This tie is not over as far as I'm concerned. I don't care we lost, if we show the same intensity (minus Gattuso) and determination we did in the 2nd half, we can at least take it to ET/penalty. we're AC Milan after all, we like to make things hard for ourselves.

- That said, I don't really care about this season's CL so if going out this round means more chance of winning the Scudetto, I'm all for it.

God, I can't believe we lost. Would have preferred being ***** by a seagull.

Come again? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

















(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

90% agree! I feel Ibra doesn't like Pato and I haven't seen anything that proves this theory wrong. he's getting along because he's a professional, but for this partnership to really work like it should and be devastating, you need more than just that. as for the rest of your post, completely agreed.


- Milan with zero creativity in midfield (2nd half) > Milan with a creative midfielder named Seedorf (1st half). saddest fact ever! we've been saying how he's finished and shouldn't play anymore for some years now, but this really is it. he can't play top football.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Not sure about the first part. It might be that Ibra has gotten a little irritated when Pato wasn't working hard enough. I remember even Ambro complaining about this last season. Pato was previously showing a disturbing trend of drifting out of games, and that's not good. Yesterday he was great though. His passing still umm. If he could get that right, then he's unstoppable. I'm still not for selling him for Balotelli though. That's just pointless Ital-mania in my opinion.

- In the first half Milan' formattion was the 4-3-1-2 with Zee as the treqqie. In the second half it was the same with Robinho.

The problem was the tactics were to see Thiago Silva drop back as third CB, while the fullbacks bombed up. Seedorf with his passing was supposed to be able to open up space. But Palacios and Sandro did a great mark up job and Robinho was not getting involved much in the first half to find space. SImilary the fullbacks did nothing of note in the first half either.

Taking Pato on meant, more pace. More direct running, and both Robinho and Pato were drifting around with energy. Most importantly see how much more involved Abate and Antonini got in the second half from an offensive perspective!

In the first half our tactics didn't work, in the second half it did. It was not Seedorf's fault entirely. He didn't do much wrong, but he couldn't provide the dynamism coz his main asset of passing was nullified without targets and there being no space between the Spurs lines. Which was why he needed to come off.

Hindsight is 20-20, but considering this was a home match, I feel this is how we should have started...

--Abate---Nesta--Silva---Ants
----------Rino-----------------
-----Flamini----------Seedorf---
-------------------------Robinho---
Pato-----------Ibra---------------

Forcing the double pivot of Spurs to advance further to curb Seedorf would actually have opened up the vital space needed to Robinho and Pato. Ibra would have then eaten up Dawson.

Also note the off centre diamond. Robinho and Seedorf on the left flank together playing a 1-2...would have exposed Lennon like cr@p...while Ants could just hang back and watch for the crosses.

Rino would have body guarded VdV. And Flamini checkd Pienaar. Pato could run into space left by Pienaar and he'd definitely have toasted Ekotto.

I have no doubts in my mind, this is what Carlo would have started. Allegri once again showing up as a CL noob.

The second leg is tough now. Spurs just need to play on the counter.

[acid911]

Secondly, Ibra is not showing up in big games??

Nope, I meant Robinho. Ibra dhows up in more than half the big games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Whatever that means! Robinho on the other hand has always been a low-class bounty-hunter (LOBO, if you will) for me. Even in his time with City, he barely scored one goal against the big clubs: Arsenal, Chelsea, United and Liverpool.

If only we had secured the signature of someone like Cavani, instead of this huffing puff.

And it's not like the team has been worse off for it.

That's highly debatable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif) Lack of Ronaldinho (or someone like him, say Cassano) was the biggest reason of our loss yesterday. That and the injury to Pirlo. And the stupidity of Allegri. And Seedorf getting killed by Seedorf himself. And no KPB. And playing Silva in the mid. In fact, not going 4-2-1-3. If you have two mids available, play two. And maybe another few reasons.

But the biggest problem was the terrible lack of creativity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) We approached Spurs like they were Barca. And they approached us like we were Manchester. United, that is is. At the end of the day, it was an extremely cagey affair the first 45 minutes, things opened up after the second half. But we were worst off for it. Quote me on this. If only Cassano was not cup tied, then we could (have said) otherwise. At least the guy brings a new dynamic to this side.

[RinoIlCapitano]

Isn't that reason enough?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) First he plucked off Ronaldinho (his stupid salary was another reason, I agree), and now he is after Pato. Ibra plays along with Robinho because he is a nobody (I'll never rate this bird-head even 10% of the guys like R80 and Pato, never once has he shown himself in big games consistently).

Fact is that Ibrahimović likes to be the biggest fish in the pond. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) And the tag-along Allegri is with him.

Are you serious, robinho is our best player this season, just because you dont like it you cant wright this bull_ _ _ t because you look clownish , really, you should be glad that he chanced things in his head and that he is ready to sacrifice himself for the good of the team , the thing he is doing a lot this year, more than pato and roni combined (Dont get me wrong i love R80 and pato probably more than you but thats not the point), even when he is not playing in his natural position like yesterday he is ready to give his best and to make it up for the team, you should just see something beyond your "who knows why hate" towards Robinho, because he is our best player so far and you like a milanfan should see that and be glad he is playing for us!!

[dst]

then it's only a coincidence that Pato was benched when the rumor that Ibra does not like him started? To be clear I do not believe that Ibra does not like him as in he has a problem with him I just think he prefers playing with the other two and that as soon as he openly admitted it, Allegri did the easy thing and benched Pato instead of keep trying to find a way to play them together which is the right thing to do seeing as Pato is a much better player than Robinho.

[Jack Sparrow]

And I guess our interpretation of the facts differ.

I don't think Ibra prefers playing with the other two coz he finds Cassano cuter than Pato. He is genuinely more effective with them than with Pato.

Is Pato really a much better player than Robinho? Consider the graft that Robinho pulls in, his obviously much better passing ability, and he is not THAT much slower than Pato.

So who would you play in behind Cassano and Ibra? Pato or Robinho. Pato has heavily regressed from the strong signs he showed of being an SS. He is now a pure CF, like Ibra but different.

I think the rumour that Ibra doesn't like him started when Pato was benched and not the other way round.

[dst]

I agree. I did not say Ibra just said that because he likes Cassano's face, both Pato and he are too ugly to pick anyway, he definitely links better with those two. My problem is, as soon as he said that, Pato, as if Allegri was following commander Ibra's order, was shown to the bench and then the media made it worse and suddenly all that about Pato not trying and Pato not playing well enough came out. The team is winning mostly thanks to Ibrahimovic. That gives him power and he knows it but he's misusing it.

[Fillipo Simone]

So what's the fazit then? An arrogant prick stays an arrogant prick while a 21 year old kid stays a kid.

And a young, inexperienced coach stays that way too! We might argue that Capello or even Ancelotti also lacked experience when they got appointed as Milan coaches; yet the difference is, both played at Milan and both were with other top teams as well, like Roma, Juventus, etc. Both had the privilege to learn from Liedholm, Sacchi, etc.
What has Allegri got? He took a few training sessions with Milan in 1994.

Honestly, I don't know why our management forgot that rule about a Milan coach being also a Milan player or atleast connected to the club.

[acid911]

Are you serious, robinho is our best player this season, just because you dont like it you cant wright this bull_ _ _ t because you look clownish , really, you should be glad that he chanced things in his head and that he is ready to sacrifice himself for the good of the team , the thing he is doing a lot this year, more than pato and roni combined (Dont get me wrong i love R80 and pato probably more than you but thats not the point), even when he is not playing in his natural position like yesterday he is ready to give his best and to make it up for the team, you should just see something beyond your "who knows why hate" towards Robinho, because he is our best player so far and you like a milanfan should see that and be glad he is playing for us!!

Na, if anything he should be glad he is playing for us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) If he was such as good player as you make him out to be, he won't be here plain and simple. Any of either Chelsea, United, Madrid, Barca, Arsenal, even City would have jumped in and snatched him away. Plain and simple fact is that he has failed to realized his potential up till now, did not impress at Madrid or City, and now he is here doing okay for his standards.

It is big games like these that he is required to step up, drastically. Just like Pirlo did so against Madrid last year, and Pato scored twice there. Kaka against United, both home and away. Unless either of Ibra/Robinho/Pato does that match in and match out in Europe, we can say goodbye to the CL campaign. For me Robinho has been in the good-not-great category ever since he arrived, and it is matches like these that elevate players. It is good scoring against smaller sides (and yes we need that from players to win matches against minnows for the Scudetto), but who is going to step it up in the high-profile matches? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) He has three good years at his full peak, before he turns 30. What has the guy done to warrant such a hooplah? Just a few scattered honors here and there. And for the record guys like Ibra and Silva are our best players this season (in terms of consistency). Robinho comes in after them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he is here, and maybe he will prove me wrong by the end of the season. But I (being a fan of Brazil NT and watching Brazilian Série A) have been following this guy since 2004, and frankly he has always failed to live up to his full potential up till now. Now that he has somewhat of a fixed starting spot, perhaps Robinho will turn it up when it matters the most. We have only won once against a top side this season (that was inter, even then they were not a top side, they had problems under Rafa). Roma, Juve, Madrid, Ajax, and whatnot have always resulted in dropped points. No one took those games like a challenge and stepped up.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

[quote name='han2503' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:08 PM' post='282843']
Sky Sports commentators making me want to puke. Crouchy? Give me a f**** break!!
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='il_diavolo_mtl' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:15 PM' post='282850']
these commentadors are wearing Micheal Dawson undergarments
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='milanbuf88' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:17 PM' post='282851']
i hate having to listen to brits during the champions league. they are sooo ridiculously biased. you'd think they were sleeping with tottenham
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='il_diavolo_mtl' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:20 PM' post='282854']
"Crouchy" tackles Silva
Commentadors" Silva went for the headbutt....funny stuff that"
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='han2503' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:26 PM' post='282860']
That's just an example of how every little thing Tottenham do is magic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='il_diavolo_mtl' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:26 PM' post='282861']
"AC milan have been beaten in every aspect of football today"
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='han2503' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:29 PM' post='282863']
"Antonini is petrified of Lennon" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='il_diavolo_mtl' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:31 PM' post='282865']
i know it's sickening
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='han2503' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:34 PM' post='282871']
They're biased and last time I checked they should be objective not trying to make every English team seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='han2503' date='Feb 15 2011, 08:47 PM' post='282891']
Aside from all that, how come you don't mention all the little jabs they throw in at every opportunity, or the arrogant way they make such harmless comments make people want to puke.

Also it's not just me that has this oppinion of the English commentators. And it's not like you hear this only on Milanfan, and sure an Italian or Spanish commentator would favour his country's team, but not the way the English do. Also I have every right to watch an English commentary game that does not imply such BS. If that were the case then why bother broadcasting outside your country if you want to alienate the foreign viewers with such comments.
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='pacang' date='Feb 15 2011, 09:53 PM' post='282989']
btw, who's that commentator? all praises for spurs and bad impressions on milan.. that's who gattuso should be aiming for
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='Kourosh' date='Feb 15 2011, 09:59 PM' post='282999']
I knew we didn't have any real chance in CL, we were going to get eliminated ultimately, but not in this round, just not this English team with those commentators.
-----------------------------------------
[quote name='mishie' date='Feb 15 2011, 10:10 PM' post='283008']
he should go back to the EPL where they like rugby tackles on a football pitch.

-----------------------------------------

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I can't even fit all the quotes in, it won't let me!!

Please, please don't watch the 2nd leg from our coverage - ITV, I'd even admit that's biased.

[Danny]

Not really a lot to take from last night. First half tactics were appalling and we just weren't in the game. Second half was a bit better but we still deserved to lose overall.

The Rino incident was ridiculous, and while he's always been a hothead, this takes his stupidity to new heights. At least he's accepted he was in the wrong and has held his hands up. Absolute nutter.

I didn't see the Flamini tackle but clearly it was enough to put Corluka out of the game.

[kurtsimonw]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I can't even fit all the quotes in, it won't let me!!

Please, please don't watch the 2nd leg from our coverage - ITV, I'd even admit that's biased.

You'd think the commentators were English..

I didn't see a problem with what they said, even as a Milan fan. I just think some on here were annoyed with the way we were playing and wanted to take it out on something. Sky Sports being the easy target!

[RinoIlCapitano]

Na, if anything he should be glad he is playing for us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) If he was such as good player as you make him out to be, he won't be here plain and simple. Any of either Chelsea, United, Madrid, Barca, Arsenal, even City would have jumped in and snatched him away. Plain and simple fact is that he has failed to realized his potential up till now, did not impress at Madrid or City, and now he is here doing okay for his standards.

It is big games like these that he is required to step up, drastically. Just like Pirlo did so against Madrid last year, and Pato scored twice there. Kaka against United, both home and away. Unless either of Ibra/Robinho/Pato does that match in and match out in Europe, we can say goodbye to the CL campaign. For me Robinho has been in the good-not-great category ever since he arrived, and it is matches like these that elevate players. It is good scoring against smaller sides (and yes we need that from players to win matches against minnows for the Scudetto), but who is going to step it up in the high-profile matches? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) He has three good years at his full peak, before he turns 30. What has the guy done to warrant such a hooplah? Just a few scattered honors here and there. And for the record guys like Ibra and Silva are our best players this season (in terms of consistency). Robinho comes in after them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he is here, and maybe he will prove me wrong by the end of the season. But I (being a fan of Brazil NT and watching Brazilian Série A) have been following this guy since 2004, and frankly he has always failed to live up to his full potential up till now. Now that he has somewhat of a fixed starting spot, perhaps Robinho will turn it up when it matters the most. We have only won once against a top side this season (that was inter, even then they were not a top side, they had problems under Rafa). Roma, Juve, Madrid, Ajax, and whatnot have always resulted in dropped points. No one took those games like a challenge and stepped up.

He didn't do well in madrid? He was one of the better players in a year they won the last league title, what are you talking about? You are really trying to prove something with totall bshit, you are really trying to prove something that have nothing to do with reallity. You simply dont like him and thats all!

[kurtsimonw]

I instantly thought of you when I read it because you've said that many times before.

but I really don't get it... to me it's just a name... it does not have a league format either... so what? these are the best teams in Europe that take part in the CL in my view. would it be any different if it was called the "champions and 2-4th placed teams cup"?

and I've said it before but I'd take a CL victory over not just one but two league wins. Though I'd prefer the scudetto this season - not that we ever had a chance on the CL.

I don't dislike the Champions League because of it's contradictory name, I just think the whole format is stupid. Teams that finish 3rd and 4th should not be enterting a competition that gives them the opportunity to be called the best in Europe, it's not right in my opinion. Seeding is something I take issue with, it's essentially just a different word for 'fixing'. Good teams have an advantage of winning the competition over bad teams anyway because they're a better team.. so then why make it so all the better teams avoid each other as well? It gives the bad teams even less of a chance. Then I hate group stages. Over a 2-legged game, a bad team stands a little chance if they can get an upset and then hold on. But for bad teams to have to out-do good ones over 6 games is very, very unlikely.

The old European Cup was perfect. To win it you needed to perform well over 2 whole seasons. Only the best team in each country and the holders could enter. No seeding, no groups, a straight knockout. Nowadays, it's too easy for teams to just play half assed in the league every year and finish 3rd/4th, while saving themselves for the CL. Given the advantages with seeding, groups, etc. even teams that aren't necessarily great will have a good chance.

Liverpool were Champions of Europe, despite only finishing 2nd once in the previous 15 years or something! It's stupid.

The competition is very flawed. But like Boban said, it's not about the football anymore, it's about the money.

[X-Offender]

I honestly don't get the Ibra doesn't like Pato gag. It's just something the crazy media came up with to have something to talk about negative, since at one point we were marching away to glory in the Serie A race. And we eat it up like sardines??!!

Well said, Jack! Ibra might prefer playing with Cassano or Robinho, there's nothing wrong with it. But from there saying that Pato is being benched because of that... Well, you'd have to be very naive in order to believe such hypocrisy.

I don't dislike the Champions League because of it's contradictory name, I just think the whole format is stupid. Teams that finish 3rd and 4th should not be enterting a competition that gives them the opportunity to be called the best in Europe, it's not right in my opinion. Seeding is something I take issue with, it's essentially just a different word for 'fixing'. Good teams have an advantage of winning the competition over bad teams anyway because they're a better team.. so then why make it so all the better teams avoid each other as well? It gives the bad teams even less of a chance. Then I hate group stages. Over a 2-legged game, a bad team stands a little chance if they can get an upset and then hold on. But for bad teams to have to out-do good ones over 6 games is very, very unlikely.

The old European Cup was perfect. To win it you needed to perform well over 2 whole seasons. Only the best team in each country and the holders could enter. No seeding, no groups, a straight knockout. Nowadays, it's too easy for teams to just play half assed in the league every year and finish 3rd/4th, while saving themselves for the CL. Given the advantages with seeding, groups, etc. even teams that aren't necessarily great will have a good chance.

Liverpool were Champions of Europe, despite only finishing 2nd once in the previous 15 years or something! It's stupid.

The competition is very flawed. But like Boban said, it's not about the football anymore, it's about the money.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I prefer the current format. No one cares about the little clubs anyway. I'd rather watch a Barça-Arsenal match than a Cluj-Zilina one.