[X-Offender]

Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Dracoris]

Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

With Ambro back I wouldn't count on seeing Flamini much. Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng is probably going to be the norm.

[kurtsimonw]

Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Just play the game FFS.

[acid911]

Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Ditto. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Our club should be above such time wasting techniques. At most we should have just slowed the tempo down, got men behind to defend in numbers. Instead, the last 5 minutes were totally brainless from Milan. And as much as I hate to say this, but justice was served in the end:

(IMG:http://i55.tinypic.com/2le12zr.gif)

The only thing that hurts more than the loss (I know it was a draw, but it felt like a loss), was the world talking about Mourinho's magic substitution, than Inzaghi's magic goals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Gattuso's face of disbelief right after the 2-2 goal and the pindrop silence in the stadium was pretty bad too.

[CHU-LIP]

Our problem is in the midfield 3, play who you want, Robinho or Dinho, it won't matter at all, if they're not going to see the ball then they can't do Jack sh!t with it. Rino is a problem and imo, Boateng is just not ready for these games yet. He was someone that really disappointed me yesterday. I say an Ambro, Pirlo, Flamini for next game, and especially the one against Inter.

This post hurts my eyes! Gattuso who is one of our best players this season, plays and outstanding game versus Real Madrid, and then your reaction is ''Rino is a problem'? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) And you're the one who says Ronaldinho is not a problem, but Gattuso is? Seriously, I cannot understand you in a million years when it comes to this. Gattuso is doing his DM stuff on world class level. Saying Flamini or any DM can do what Gattuso do also is being wrong and naive, but also is showing lack of appreciation/credit for Gattuso's awesome preformances - you underrate the defensive skills that a DM need and so you underrate Gattuso's preformances), killing many attacks including versus Real with players like Cristiano Ronaldo, and yet you want to bench him? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dunnosmiley.gif)

Gattuso is preforming very well for us, has an awesome work rate, both Ronaldinho lacks, and yet you treat Gattuso like this? Gattuso you can't wait for him to hit the bench, but Ronaldinho always needs to play? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Without Gattuso we probably would have lost, without Ronaldinho we might have won. I know the flaws Gattuso got, but when it comes to his strengths, when it comes to the (huge) benefits of playing him, you seem to be blind for it. Gattuso runs more, works more, gets involved more, saves our butt over and over again, than Ronaldinho who fails to do what a trequarista should do. Playing Gattuso makes Milan stronger, playing Ronaldinho makes our team weaker.

I say an Ambro, Pirlo, Flamini for next game, and especially the one against Inter.

And start Ronaldinho, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Benching Gattuso versus Inter is almost as stupid as playing Ronaldinho versus Inter.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Nov 4 2010, 06:05 PM

[X-Offender]

With Ambro back I wouldn't count on seeing Flamini much. Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng is probably going to be the norm.

With Ambro back, I'm pretty sure Allegri will play Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambro. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Just play the game FFS.

Completely agree with you there.

[han2503]

This post hurts my eyes! Gattuso who is one of our best players this season, plays and outstanding game versus Real Madrid, and then your reaction is ''Rino is a problem'? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) And you're the one who says Ronaldinho is not a problem, but Gattuso is? Seriously, I cannot understand you in a million years when it comes to this. Gattuso is doing his DM stuff on world class level. Saying Flamini or any DM can do what Gattuso do also is being wrong and naive, but also is showing lack of appreciation/credit for Gattuso's awesome preformances - you underrate the defensive skills that a DM need and so you underrate Gattuso's preformances), killing many attacks including versus Real with players like Cristiano Ronaldo, and yet you want to bench him? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dunnosmiley.gif)

Gattuso is preforming very well for us, has an awesome work rate, both Ronaldinho lacks, and yet you treat Gattuso like this? Gattuso you can't wait for him to hit the bench, but Ronaldinho always needs to play? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Without Gattuso we probably would have lost, without Ronaldinho we might have won. I know the flaws Gattuso got, but when it comes to his strengths, when it comes to the (huge) benefits of playing him, you seem to be blind for it. Gattuso runs more, works more, gets involved more, saves our butt over and over again, than Ronaldinho who fails to do what a trequarista should do. Playing Gattuso makes Milan stronger, playing Ronaldinho makes our team weaker.


And start Ronaldinho, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Benching Gattuso versus Inter is almost as stupid as playing Ronaldinho versus Inter.

Oh my oh my......

What does Dinho have to do with this???? The back 3 behind the attack is what will win you the game, and we can't do that if we're going to play Rino. This is just the same as you saying Honda is a great player, simply because he works and runs a lot! Just ridiculous! Maybe Rino is misleading you into thinking he's been "great" as you say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) because he's running a lot. But let me tell you something, he can run over a hundred miles in 90 minutes, if he's not doing his job and closing down the midfield spaces and letting Pirlo on the ball then he's useless as a DM.

Do you know how much it pains me to say I want Ambro over Rino??!! Ask kurt. But I can admit to things that are staring us in the face. You put the blame all on Dinho who was essentially playing as a left sided forward, but ignore the most crucial component of our game that failed. And that was the midfield. Imo we shouldn't have played just a 3 man mid. Dinho needed to be just infront of them, but Allegri stupidly reverted to the 4-3-3. Having said that it's still not justifiable how Khedira and Alonso practically strolled through our midfield

Rino absolutely must NOT play against Inter. Ronni or Robs? It doesn't matter which one of them plays, if the midfield 3 behind them is not right then we're as good as done for before the match starts. And the more Allegri keeps this sh!t up, with the 4-3-3 and Rino playing every 3 days the more terrible results we'll see.

You blame everything on Ronaldinho, yet I didn't hear a word out of your mouth when we imploded against Juve

[han2503]

Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Well like I said before the reason we're seeing Rino always on the ball is because opposing teams can offord to let him do whatever he wants and double mark Pirlo or Dinho/Robinho. It's pretty simple and even the dumbest coach around would know that this is the solution against Milan

[CHU-LIP]

Gattuso does more than just running, han, but that's all you can see and that's your problem and exactly my point.

[han2503]

Gattuso does more than just running, han, but that's all you can see and that's your problem and exactly my point.

Your problem is being obsessed with a player's work rate. When in reality they're not delivering what they should.

ie. if Rino is a DM then I don't care if he's running like a maniac, what I care about is him cutting out spaces, winning the ball and not letting Pirlo stranded. And he wasn't even doing one of those things. Did you see Khedira running like a dog all over the pitch in either game? No! But he got the job done a hundred times better then Rino did

[vnata001]

I agree with the last 6 posts (Kurt's, X-Offs, Han's, Linkmans, Acids). EDIT: upon further review, I did, until I saw a bunch more new posts had been posted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) To that ^^^ conversation I say this: People need to come to terms with Rino's mediocrity.

I'm probably beating a dead horse with this, but, my two cents is: with our forwards (Dinho, Ibra, Robinho, Pato) we can easily play a 4-3-3. I am currently of the opinion that we SHOULD, considering all of the forwards that we have.

- However, in such a formation, one midfielder has strict defensive duties. He should be fielded centrally, between the other two central mids, and slightly behind them in front of the defense. Moreover, he should NOT run around like a headless chicken. His job is simple, clog up the middle. Additionally, not only must he be a ball winner, he must also possess the small amount of technical quality it requires to pick out a possession ensuring pass. Sometimes, that means either 1) spraying a ball from one side of the field to the opposing wing's (attacking) full back allowing that full back to join defense to attack, or 2) when a team is pressuring high up the pitch, playing a quick one two (with either a CB or a midfielder) to create space for one of our CBs (both of whom are competent passers) or midfielder to play the ball forward.

Examples: Yaya Toure, Obi Mikel, Busquets, Khedira to name the best few.

- The other two midfielders must be box-to-box midfielders. They don't need to be the most ingeniously creative players like your Dinho's or Pirlo's. The qualities we need from them are high stamina, decent pace, the ability to play intelligent, not overly complicated passes into channels, make useful runs when in attack so as to support our wide forwards, be a threat to shoot from distance, and always track back relentlessly when possession is conceded.

Examples: Marchisio, Elano, Ramires, Essien, Gareth Barry, Stankovic

The dynamic of the two CMs would such that when 1) playing a team who drops 10 behind the ball forcing us into possession build up, the two create an inverted triangle with the DM. They slip into spaces outside the area where they force defenders (who must respect their shooting threat) to collapse towards the middle (creating fortuitous 2 v. 1 opportunities for our wide forwards and fullbacks), or 2) when playing in an open game, WE NEVER risk the counter attack. In midfield we would play a fluid 4-5-1, with one of the CMs and the DM ALWAYS back, while the other is given a little more freedom to attack with the front 3 and attacking fullbacks. Which of the two CMs goes forward is dictated by the run of play. This is why the defensive mid MUST have the quality to play sharp, possession ensuring passes. Our ability to play the ball forward (without a defender hoofing it to a forward hopefully) depends on our DM having these qualities.

Our wonderful AC Milan, is short of 3 players (another box to box, and 2 quality fullbacks) in order to make the 4-3-3 work. We play Boateng and Rino as our CMs, and Pirlo as our DM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)

Of the three, the ONLY player whose qualities match his position is Boateng.

-Pirlo is not a defensive blanket, does not think like a defensive midfielder. Therefore not only are his useful play-making qualities hidden, but his defensive short-comings become glaring. In the 4-3-3, he becomes a weak link in our team.

- Rino is a headless chicken. Defensively, his running is largely ineffectual - when in the past he was already sweeping the ball away cleanly, today he is now late to most challenges, being megged regularly, and committing tons of fouls. Moreover, he should NEVER be given duties in the attacking third. Even Rino of old was allowed no such duties.

With Pirlo rendered useless by the formation and Rino being useless in general, there's no f'ing wonder our 4-3-3 won't work. Even the 'tactically inept' Leo knew Rino couldn't play in a 4-3-3.

Proposed solution:

I must begin by saying that I truly still rate Pirlo as a play-maker. However, when taking into consideration the forwards that we have, and wanting for our team to play to their strengths without being an outrageously unbalanced side, we have no room for a deep-lying playmaker. Pirlo must be dropped in a 4-3-3. For Milan to rise to the top while employing a 4-3-3, Ambrosini and Flamini should rotate as that DM. Boateng should be a starting CM. A CM in the mold of the examples provided above must be signed.

Taking sentiment out of it, if we want to get the best from our 4 forwards, we need to 1) drop Pirlo, 2) never play Rino, 3) sign another Box-to-Box.

This post has been edited by vnata001: Nov 4 2010, 06:31 PM

[CHU-LIP]

With Ambro back, I'm pretty sure Allegri will play Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambro. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

We should stick with Boateng, Pirlo and Gattuso.

Your problem is being obsessed with a player's work rate. When in reality they're not delivering what they should.

You underestimate the importance of work rate (hence you wanting Ronaldinho to play). Gattuso not delivering what he should? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) What? If someone is delivering it's Gattuso. The opposite is true about Ronaldinho, yet you want the latter to play and Rino not. Don't you see how irony?

[X-Offender]

Or we could simply sign an AM and play 4-3-1-2.

Boateng - Pirlo - Flamini/Ambro
AM

I'm with han and vnata on Gattuso. Having a considerable work rate comes to nothing if you're not doing your job well. Rino is a DM, but he's being played as box-to-box. That hurts our game. His technical skills are ridiculous, and his positioning questionable. I praise him for all the will and determination he shows on field, but the guy can't be counted on anymore. Not if we want to challenge the big European sides.

[vnata001]

Or we could simply sign an AM and play 4-3-1-2.

Boateng - Pirlo - Flamini/Ambro
AM

I'm with han and vnata on Gattuso. Having a considerable work rate comes to nothing if you're not doing your job well. Rino is a DM, but he's being played as box-to-box. That hurts our game. His technical skills are ridiculous, and his positioning questionable. I praise him for all the will and determination he shows on field, but the guy can't be counted on anymore. Not if we want to challenge the big European sides.

Definitely. I prefaced that with my point that we should play a 4-3-3. But in a 4-3-1-2, I wouldn't think twice about selling Dinho. In the post I just made in the Winter Transfers thread, you'll see I agree.

[Fillipo Simone]

When did Boateng become that popular? Last time I saw him play he was looking like an amateur in some occasions.