[William405]

My god, some posters here should be deeply ashamed. This is outrageous!

I think it's a good debate,can get a bit nasty.But,it's OK without the flaming parts ;p.

[Fillipo Simone]

I don't see the point of this debate. We all know each others position. We all demonstrated that we won't back down.
Only thing left is to repeat over and over again till no one will be here to read it.

[han2503]

You were talking about lucky goals...

For the rest of your post... well... I am open for some tactical changes... but IMO it should be with Pato, Ibrahimovic, Robinho, Pirlo, Boateng and a DM as our forwards and midfielders. I would put them like this:

Pato, Zlatan
Robinho
Boateng, Pirlo, Rino/Flam

Because Robinho is someone who likes to go wide, Pirlo can go to AMC like what you like to see (except I got Pato then as either the CF, or LF, depending to which wing Robinho is going). Of course it shouldn't be Gattuso who is going forward, and Pirlo who is staying back. I mean then it's better to play Flamini over Gattuso, though if he shows he earns it because Gattuso is earning his spot. I also like Zlatan to drop back and go to AMC, I like to see Zlatan and Pirlo going to attacking midfield to create but Pirlo also will have to do his more defensive midfield stuff and Zlatan his forward stuff. Robinho will move enough to make this possible. I want to see lots of movement and non-slow downed attacks. We will have enough players who can create but also players who will move.

Zlatan needs to score goals, he's not an AM, yes he can create, but not in the way an AM can, he's more of a quick pass player when the opportunity comes along. As for Robinho, you can write it down which ever way you want, but ultimately we will see a trident on the pitch, thus pushing Pato to the right wing, which imo is ridiculous and a complete waste.

As for the movement part you talk about. The movement has to come mostly from the midfield 3 which is why I'd want a Flamini, Boateng duo covering Pirlo, a game is won in midfield so having that strong 3 in the middle will give us a big advantage, now if Dinho is playing in front of them it will be more compact, and we'll have creativity through the center, while if Robinho plays we'll have more width, imo both are great options to habve, just don't agree with X-off that the one with Robinho should be used in the big games. It all depends on the way we want to play, imo if you want to win the midfield battle and keep possession then the Dinho option would be the most ideal, while the one with Robs is quicker.

[William405]

I don't see the point of this debate. We all know each others position. We all demonstrated that we won't back down.
Only thing left is to repeat over and over again till no one will be here to read it.

Well,yeah.If someone is not open to new ideas,thoughts and he's being a "fanboy" then ofcourse it is,and I agree with you.

[CHU-LIP]

So what if I mentioned it only after the game against Madrid. Does it conceal the fact that during his three years of Milan, he's always flopped in the big games? Save the first derby against Inter and the home game against Manchester, the guy has been a huge disappointment when duty called him to be a protagonist. Why? BECAUSE HE CAN'T PLAY AT HIGH LEVELS ANYMORE. Fix this in your little head, my dear han.

This is pretty much the issue with Ronaldinho. Last season he did well against a crappy Juve. Should we gamble on Juve sucking again against us and play Ronaldinho? Or play with Robinho so we have a better chance beating Juve if they turn up to be stronger than last season (which they are - which was pretty inevitable considering their awful season). Ronaldinho is a good player, and we might win with him (but not necessary), but we should play with our best team because Juve can turn out to be strong(er) this time, so I want our best team(!) to play which is with Pato, Zlatan and Robinho IMO.

So this is my answer to those who want Ronaldinho because he did well vs Juve last season.

[han2503]

This is pretty much the issue with Ronaldinho. Last season he did well against a crappy Juve. Should we gamble on Juve sucking again against us and play Ronaldinho? Or play with Robinho so we have a better chance beating Juve if they turn up to be stronger than last season (which they are - which was pretty inevitable considering their awful season). Ronaldinho is a good player, and we might win with him (but not necessary), but we should play with our best team because Juve can turn out to be strong(er) this time, so I want our best team(!) to play which is with Pato, Zlatan and Robinho IMO.

So this is my answer to those who want Ronaldinho because he did well vs Juve last season.

It's not because he did well last season!! Read my above post. Dinho and Robinho give us 2 different options, 2 different ways to play our game. It's about having tactical diversity and how we wish to approach the game.

If you just want a fast 11 that might score off something that will most probably be individually created then go for Robinho, if you want to see us controling the midfield and playing a smarter game go with Dinho.

If we go for Robinho against Juve I'm 100% sure that we won't be the ones that are bossing the game.

As for that being the best team. It's questionable at best. Playing Robinho will condition Pato into playing on the wings. Thus wasting him, so we'll see Pato having another crappy performance like the one against Napoli, while if we play Dinho Both Pato and Ibra will play to their strengths, both playing as strikers. Instead of Ibra having to play as the target man and Pato a winger

[CHU-LIP]

Zlatan needs to score goals, he's not an AM, yes he can create, but not in the way an AM can, he's more of a quick pass player when the opportunity comes along. As for Robinho, you can write it down which ever way you want, but ultimately we will see a trident on the pitch, thus pushing Pato to the right wing, which imo is ridiculous and a complete waste.

If there is one player who needs to score goals it's Pato, followed by Ibrahimovic - so the latter can/should do more than just being the CF. We should not have two CF's who are just there to score goals. Pato is our greatest goalscoring threat, and Zlatan can do a whole lot more for our team so why not using his other benefits also?

Why Pato on the right wing? I put him as LCF. Robinho can go to both wings. At least it's what I want to see, not saying it will happen, that's why I agreed with you I want some tactical changes. I want a tactic where Pato is most as CF.

As for the movement part you talk about. The movement has to come mostly from the midfield 3 which is why I'd want a Flamini, Boateng duo covering Pirlo, a game is won in midfield so having that strong 3 in the middle will give us a big advantage, now if Dinho is playing in front of them it will be more compact, and we'll have creativity through the center, while if Robinho plays we'll have more width, imo both are great options to habve, just don't agree with X-off that the one with Robinho should be used in the big games. It all depends on the way we want to play, imo if you want to win the midfield battle and keep possession then the Dinho option would be the most ideal, while the one with Robs is quicker.

Both are great options, I agree. But how can you disagree with the bold part? How more evidence you want to see that Ronaldinho rocks against weaker sides, and sucks against stronger sides? Against the top sides it should be a no brainer for Robinho.

It's not because he did well last season!! Read my above post.

This one wasn't referred to you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Oct 27 2010, 07:03 PM

[han2503]

If there is one player who needs to score goals it's Pato, followed by Ibrahimovic - so the latter can/should do more than just being the CF. We should not have two CF's who are just there to score goals. Pato is our greatest goalscoring threat, and Zlatan can do a whole lot more for our team so why not using his other benefits also?

Why Pato on the right wing? I put him as LCF. Robinho can go to both wings. At least it's what I want to see, not saying it will happen, that's why I agreed with you I want some tactical changes.

Imo, if we want to win the league, both should get 20+ goals this season. With Dinho and Robinho both chipping in with their's as well.

Also neither of them should be the CF. They both play in the striker positions when playing the 4-3-1-2, ie, we get the best out of both. Not waste one of them in order to utilise the other.

Exactly what I'm saying here. playing Robinho even though it will work, when we wish to play a certain way will immediately force us into a s man attacking line. You can draw it on a paper however you want, but what we see on the pitch is what matters and what we'll see is Pato on one wing, Robinho drifting center to wing and Ibra in the middle.

Both are great options, I agree. But how can you disagree with the bold part? How more evidence you want to see that Ronaldinho rocks against weaker sides, and sucks against stronger sides? Against the top sides it should be a no brainer for Robinho.

Oh my! can't believe I'm getting into this!! WHAT EVIDENCE??? The Real Madrid game? That's the only big game we played For God's Sake!!! And if you're going to base your theory on that game, then no one from that 11 who started (aside from Amelia) should be playing in big games, because they all played like cr@p

As for last season, he showed up against Juve, both times, Man U and Roma, yes he played cr@p against Inter but who the hell didn't last season?

[Linkman]

Thank you han, for having the skill and the patience to say what I was thinking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Exactly what I'm saying here. playing Robinho even though it will work, when we wish to play a certain way will immediately force us into a s man attacking line. You can draw it on a paper however you want, but what we see on the pitch is what matters and what we'll see is Pato on one wing, Robinho drifting center to wing and Ibra in the middle.

Ibra in the middle is what should be different, and that's possible, because he likes to be all over the place, so Pato can be the CF. (Remember his assists? He was in LM/LW position when he made that cross - okay, Ronaldinho was the one playing that match, but it shows Ibra can be all over the place and have Pato as CF - just like the 2nd goal). We will see what will happen, I just hope we will see Allegri winning our games, so have a good line-up with good tactics, and my preference go to the one with Pato, Zlatan and Robinho. It's what I see working, also against the stronger opponents. Proof enough Ronaldinho is poor against strong sides. How easily he is marked out, and useless then. Annoying to see. No more please!

[X-Offender]

The inability of some people in here to read a football game is beyond imagination. Let's put it this way. Ronaldinho doesn't fail against the big sides. Ronaldinho fails in games where the pace is 2-3 times faster than in normal Serie A games, where the opponent pressures for the whole 90 minutes, where key players are constantly double-marked, and where you need to run, a lot. These are the kind of games he's inapt for, because he doesn't have the physical capabilities to sustain them anymore.

Don't fool yourselves because he did well against the crapy Juventus of last season, or the crapy Roma of last season's first half. The true champion makes himself notorious in the important occasions, like the derbies, or the Champions League, where so far, Ronaldinho has been absolutely dreadful.

Now let's wait for han & co. to blah blah some little more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Ronaldinho only scores against minor teams

Well, Roma was crappy, Juve was crappy...you make me ask: who isn't? Against whom does Dinho have to play amazing that you change your mind? Other then Real.

[Bluesummers]

My god, some posters here should be deeply ashamed. This is outrageous!

there is no shame. Is not possible.


Champions feel no shame, champions have 100% pride all of time. Is not possible to decrease.



This is not outrageous. Outrageous is when I lose in champions league group stage and still win group and qualify. Even when I lose, I still win.


Very good. You should be crying; even If i lose to milan I still win. I cannot be defeated. Is not possible.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Oct 27 2010, 09:35 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

?

I suggest you stop with that impersonation because it really gets on my nerves.

[Bluesummers]

?

I suggest you stop with that impersonation because it really gets on my nerves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjwHDSUSsM4


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)


How can you not love this???