[KillerMax]

I hope dst doesn't see this.

And damn it I was looking forward to see Nesta and Maldini play together again.

[Il Diavolo]

This sux! Nesta is without a doubt our best defender. Only Bonera has the potential to reach Sandro's class. We will experience problems in defence very soon. These clean sheets are very surprising. Bonera, Kaladze and Maldini are our key central defenders and two of them are often not available. It's time for Darmian, Carlo. And bring back Digao this summer. Let's develop young defenders. Piccolo from Empoli is another option. He's played for Lazio and Juventus.

Get better, Sandro!

This post has been edited by Il Diavolo: Nov 4 2008, 03:33 PM

[han2503]

So very true han ..

But the fact that Milan hasn't conceded much is because of the fusion solid midfield that Milan has. The DMs play real close to the defense, that they form a part of it when the pressure is on.

Tactically, this is 100% Carlo's doing and with experienced players like Ringo & Ambro, I think the team can hold on with the options available to us atm.

I think you know what I think of the bolded part already R7. I don't think it has anything to do with the defensive mids. We've been playing this 2 DMF system for more then 2 years now and it's never really worked out aside from some CL games, infact I see it more as a liablity, we struggle to retain possession when we have the 2 defensive mids instead of Seedorf and Pirlo with just 1 defensive mid, because Ambro and Rino are not the best passers around and Ambro also causes us more problems because he tends to dwell on the ball far too long and then loses it.

So far I think we've been solid at the back because of a combination of luck, the back four finally jelling well together and not having Kaladze on the field. It doesn't have anything to do with the extra defensive mid.

But I know what you're going to say, that the extra defensive mid is crucial for us and Carlo is a genious for coming up with the whole system (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But let me give you a SINGLE example of how the 2 defensive mids don't really work and they're just an illusion of better defensive play

It's Wednesday 4th of May 2005. Milan go into the second leg of the semi-finals of the CL against PSV Eindhoven carrying a 2-0 lead from the first leg in the San Siro courtesy of a first half Sheva strike and a late goal from Tomasson. In the first game Milan go out with their preferred formation a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond setup

(IMG:http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/han2503/untitled.jpg)

Milan win the game comfortably and they already have a foot in the final.

Carlo Ancellotti goes into the second leg with a conservative mindset, with preserving a 2-0 lead in mind. He chooses to drop one of the strikers in favour of a 4-3-2-1 formation with both Ambrosini and Gattuso flanking Pirlo and Seedorf and Kaka supporting Shevchenko.

(IMG:http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/han2503/untitled2.jpg)

PSV Eindhoven proceed to rip through our midfield scoring 3 goals in the process while Milan are unable to get a lookin. The midfield can't keep possession of the ball while Shevachenko is not being supplied any balls. In the end it turns out to be a lucky night for Carlo because Milan manage a last gasp goal and go through to the final.
--------------------------------------------------------

This entire game basically sums up the last 2 seasons for us while playing with Carlo's master stroke of a system

[Zed.D]

Top post han (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)



SHAME ABOUT NESTA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) unfortunately because of his condition he can't be relied on anymore. he will be a big bonus when his finally fit, but he's going to be constantly on and off the squad because this problem simply won't let go of him. it's a serious problem. much more serious than Maldini's knee problems. back injury is no joke.

[TriniKing_CE]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/swear1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/swear1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/swear1.gif) Tuttomercatoweb (haven't looked elsewhere yet) is reporting that Nesta's back isn't better and that he may go to the same rehab place in Miami that he went to for his shoulder. They're saying that NOW he may be available to play after the Christmas break.

EDIT: The same story is repeated in Gazzetta and Mediaset.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
Ohhh FcvK!!!!! Noooooooo!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/realmad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/begging.gif)

[TriniKing_CE]

I hope he is back soon ... I believe in the long run Milan will need him. So far, Bonera has produced really good displays and the more he plays, the more he will get better.

We also have Maldini, who will contribute his last efforts before hanging up his boats (obviously)

Kakha is strong and firm at the back

And though Nesta would be a HUGE boost to the back line .. I am confident that the team can go on without him in the short run. As the results have shown in the past six games.

EDIT: And Senderos has yet to contribute ... I am hoping for Stam-like performances from him

I don't know why ppl keeping saying this, its a bit much to expect of someone who hasn't had a great past to speak of, to expect him to perform like Jaap Stam.
Seriouly - so they're both tall, bald, fair skined and slow in speed.
That doesn't fit well enough for me to be linked to each other.

[TriniKing_CE]

Nice post han, you've raised some really good points and what not concerning our formation containing both 1 DM & 2 DMs over those 2 legs vs PSV. While it can be said that the number of DMs could have attributed to the difference in our style of play and possesion, you also have to take in to account that the Backline setup was also different, certain players didn't play (or played in different positions all together), a player's form and mind set could have been completey different to that of the first game as well etc.

So while looking at the DMs as the only thing that may have caused a flucuation in our play, it wasn't necessarily the only thing.

And yes, for the record I too am a fan of the diamond mid-field set up with 2 strikers ahead.

[han2503]

Nice post han, you've raised some really good points and what not concerning our formation containing both 1 DM & 2 DMs over those 2 legs vs PSV. While it can be said that the number of DMs could have attributed to the difference in our style of play and possesion, you also have to take in to account that the Backline setup was also different, certain players didn't play (or played in different positions all together), a player's form and mind set could have been completey different to that of the first game as well etc.

So while looking at the DMs as the only thing that may have caused a flucuation in our play, it wasn't necessarily the only thing.

And yes, for the record I too am a fan of the diamond mid-field set up with 2 strikers ahead.

Well in the 2nd leg only Maldini was missing and in his place was Kaladze, but what has to be taken into account is the fact that the CB pairing was the same in both games, Nesta and Stam. In the LB position Maldini is replaced by Kaladze, but imo it's doesn't really make that much of a difference, Kaladze has always been solid at LB it's when he's played at CB that he messes up so much. In fact Maldini was more attacking minded at that time then Kaladze was.

The fact that we couldn't control the tempo of the game and couldn't even get a grip on the game imo has nothing to do with the defence and all to do with the midfield

[dst]

Come ooooooooooooooonnnn!!!

WHY?!?!?

Why the **** why? This is ****ing unfair. Why Paolo? Is it because I wish for That-Guy-Who's-Name-I-Won't-Speak-In-This-Holy-Thread to get injured all the time? Is this how you punish me, my God?

COME ON! I want Nesta!! Bring me Nesta. Kill the Georgian and give his back to Alessandro, come on Milan Lab! Do somethingggrrrrrrrrrr!!!

**** OFF... this is annoying... and now that the abomination is back we'll even fear Simone Inzaghi... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[han2503]

Come ooooooooooooooonnnn!!!

WHY?!?!?

Why the **** why? This is ****ing unfair. Why Paolo? Is it because I wish for That-Guy-Who's-Name-I-Won't-Speak-In-This-Holy-Thread to get injured all the time? Is this how you punish me, my God?

COME ON! I want Nesta!! Bring me Nesta. Kill the Georgian and give his back to Alessandro, come on Milan Lab! Do somethingggrrrrrrrrrr!!!

**** OFF... this is annoying... and now that the abomination is back we'll even fear Simone Inzaghi... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I don't think wishing death upon the Georgian is a good way to get on God's good side (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[dst]

I don't think wishing death upon the Georgian is a good way to get on God's good side (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

No no I meant he will offer his life for the greater good and in exchange he will stay forever in Milan... in one of the city's graveyards.

[acid911]

No no I meant he will offer his life for the greater good and in exchange he will stay forever in Milan... in one of the city's graveyards.

That's actually the best wish you've ever given for Kaladzity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He still can be an absolutely terrible defender when he's not in the mood, to be quite honest.

[Rossoneri7]

I think you know what I think of the bolded part already R7. I don't think it has anything to do with the defensive mids. We've been playing this 2 DMF system for more then 2 years now and it's never really worked out aside from some CL games, infact I see it more as a liablity, we struggle to retain possession when we have the 2 defensive mids instead of Seedorf and Pirlo with just 1 defensive mid, because Ambro and Rino are not the best passers around and Ambro also causes us more problems because he tends to dwell on the ball far too long and then loses it.

So far I think we've been solid at the back because of a combination of luck, the back four finally jelling well together and not having Kaladze on the field. It doesn't have anything to do with the extra defensive mid.

But I know what you're going to say, that the extra defensive mid is crucial for us and Carlo is a genious for coming up with the whole system (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But let me give you a SINGLE example of how the 2 defensive mids don't really work and they're just an illusion of better defensive play

It's Wednesday 4th of May 2005. Milan go into the second leg of the semi-finals of the CL against PSV Eindhoven carrying a 2-0 lead from the first leg in the San Siro courtesy of a first half Sheva strike and a late goal from Tomasson. In the first game Milan go out with their preferred formation a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond setup

(IMG:http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/han2503/untitled.jpg)

Milan win the game comfortably and they already have a foot in the final.

Carlo Ancellotti goes into the second leg with a conservative mindset, with preserving a 2-0 lead in mind. He chooses to drop one of the strikers in favour of a 4-3-2-1 formation with both Ambrosini and Gattuso flanking Pirlo and Seedorf and Kaka supporting Shevchenko.

(IMG:http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/han2503/untitled2.jpg)

PSV Eindhoven proceed to rip through our midfield scoring 3 goals in the process while Milan are unable to get a lookin. The midfield can't keep possession of the ball while Shevachenko is not being supplied any balls. In the end it turns out to be a lucky night for Carlo because Milan manage a last gasp goal and go through to the final.
--------------------------------------------------------

This entire game basically sums up the last 2 seasons for us while playing with Carlo's master stroke of a system

Good post buddy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

About the second line up .. Didn't Ambro score the winning goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Still I am not convinced that with two DMs, Milan is handicapped. I have stated it many times, what Cesare Maldini commented on when he was asked about the 2 DM formation.

I have watched the derby from the stands and I have seen first hand how the DMs reshuffle and take to the wings when the full backs are forward. When inter had possession the DMs were the first to react forcefully to regain possession. The tactical set up changes while the game is underway with the DMs being crucial to ensure control over the midfield.

It is very easy to point fingers when things are in hindsight, but to assess something thoroughly, you would need to look at it from all the angles and comprehend all the possible alternatives to YOUR opinion. You might be right and I might be wrong, in the end it doesn't change much .. What remains unchanged is that the person in question is still on the Milan bench for a reason, of which you are not comprehending.

[han2503]

Good post buddy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

About the second line up .. Didn't Ambro score the winning goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Shut up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Still I am not convinced that with two DMs, Milan is handicapped. I have stated it many times, what Cesare Maldini commented on when he was asked about the 2 DM formation.

I have watched the derby from the stands and I have seen first hand how the DMs reshuffle and take to the wings when the full backs are forward. When inter had possession the DMs were the first to react forcefully to regain possession. The tactical set up changes while the game is underway with the DMs being crucial to ensure control over the midfield.

It is very easy to point fingers when things are in hindsight, but to assess something thoroughly, you would need to look at it from all the angles and comprehend all the possible alternatives to YOUR opinion. You might be right and I might be wrong, in the end it doesn't change much .. What remains unchanged is that the person in question is still on the Milan bench for a reason, of which you are not comprehending.

Like I've said many times I think it works reasonably well against big teams, mainly ones that use wingers Like for example Man U a couple of seasons back and Mourinho's Inter. The DMFs are really important in that case because they help to double up on the opponents with the fullbacks, but in games against teams who defend a lot (practically all the teams in Serie A that are behind the top 4) it never works. Simply because it's like running into a wall every time. The attack is too disconnected from the midfield and we still somehow manage to conceed on the quick counters.

In the game against PSV, we used that approach and PSV literally ripped us apart. Our midfield coudn't string 3 passes together, PSV went through the middle with so much pace that we literrally couldn't keep up while our defence and attack were both stranded.

I know what Maldini said, but it's obvious that's he's not going to say anything in the negetive regarding anything our coach would do. Way too classy for that sort of thing.

As for why Carlo is still on the bench. I personall still wanted Carlo after the 04/05 and 05/06 seasons, even though many were already starting to get fead up with him. I though he should have another season to prove himself. 06/07 came and it was a disgrace of a season that ended with a CL victory thanks to Kaka, who imo dragged the entire team by their hair through the entire competition. Without him we probably wouldn't have made it out of our VERY easy group, that's how important he was. But we won the CL so ok even if Carlo is not good enough for the team anymore, Galliani decided to let him stay for the duration of the contract, we should respect that. But after that 07/08 campaign, were we got humiliated more times then I can count on 2 hands thanks to Carlo's cagey and cowardly tactics it's a miracle he's still on that bench.

Silvio clearly has other things more important then Milan on his mind. Because if the things that happened to us last season happened at any other time in the past be sure that Carlo wouldn't have lasted more then a month from the beginning of last season.

[han2503]

Anyway back to the Nesta topic

And it's more bad new if this turns out to be true (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Nesta To Quit Football - Reports

Milan defender Alessandro Nesta could be forced to retire from football at just 32 years of age as a result of on-going injury problems, according to La Stampa...

Will injury spell the premature end to the distinguished career of AC Milan's centre-back Alessandro Nesta?

The Rossoneri stopper has spent more time in the treatment room than on the pitch over the past few seasons with an on-going back problem.

He has missed a number of important games for his side and he may end up missing the rest of this season - as well as future campaigns.

Turin-based newspaper La Stampa claims the former Italian international may have no choice but to hang up his boots as a result of his injury.

It is believed Nesta has a problem with a slipped disc in his back, and he has been allowed to fly back to Miami to see a specialist.
Reports suggest the stopper may even need an operation which could put his career in jeopardy. If Nesta does need surgery then the chances of his returning to the game will be slim.

The Italian has been a great servant to the club since joining them from Lazio in 2002.

Milan fans will be hoping the World Cup-winning defender doesn't need surgery so he can return to the pitch sooner rather than later.