[Danny]

Difficult to know where to start - it's been a crushingly disappointing 24 hours. On this forum there are huge splits in terms of where the blame lies. If indeed there is any real blame.

Last summer of 2011 we had the real potential, having won the league and secured entry to the CL, to enhance the squad with real quality. Invest in the team and make us elite again. We got Aquilani, Sharrawy, Mexes, Nocerino and Muntari.

None of these are achingly poor players, but they were hardly the marquee quality we needed - and despite an honourable showing against Barca, we didn't win the CL and in the league we've been extremely inconsistent.

It's very difficult to know where to start - but the one critical change we need is squad investment. We do have very good players, wonderful players, but not enough of them. When you look at the top clubs they have at least 20 top top players - City, United, Barca, Real, Bayern - big world class squads designed to cope with injuries, suspensions, and a genuine challenge for the top honours.

We don't have that. We do have the CL again next season, and the default money which comes from that, but Silvio, with a bit of time on his hands these days, really does have to make some big signings. The fans need a boost, and frankly many millions require spending.

As for Allegri - as long as I have been a Milan fan fellow Rossoneri have never agreed on the manager - from Carlo, to Leo, to Allegri - all have been 'wrong' in the eyes of the fans no matter what they won.

Problem is a manager is only one man - 100% of fans are never going to agree with you, and even winning a league might not be enough to prove your doubters wrong.

So I don't know where I stand on the boss.

But I do know this squad needs reinforcement of the highest quality - guys who will cost a fortune but be definite starters and take us up a level.

[han2503]

I kinda feel like I'm banging my head on a brick wall with you Han. You are very stubborn.

Why because I categorically and unequivocally disagree with the ridiculous notion that Juve have the better squad than ours?

The fact that we ran them to the second to final day while playing the backups of the backups at times says it all. Had Juve had to deal with such a situation they'd have ended up 7th for the third consecutive season.

Our starting 11, our rotation players, our depth in general is just better than theirs. Allegri made a million mistakes this season, and he's been by far one of the most infuriating aspects of the entire season, probably just slightly behind the relentless injuries, but I'm confident in saying that had he had the full team at his disposal throughout this entire season as Conte did, we'd have won the title.

Yes he still wouldn't have managed to comprise the cohesive unit that Conte did, but than again, with the quality at his disposal he wouldn't have needed to, just like last season.

I'm bringing up the fact that most of our games have been won due to individualistic brilliance, but had we won the title do you really think any one of us, especially me would care? F@ck no!! I'd forget the fact that he's been playing a brainless idiot for nearly 3 months straight, I'd forget the fact that Allegri simply refuses to utilise creative players and I'd forget how tactically rigid he is that he simply cannot seem to come up with a different system than the one he has in place. Had we been the team celebrating none of that would really matter. But we're not celebrating, we're left rueing the fact that we simply handed over this Scudetto to at disgusting team like Juve, who will most likely sew on a third star even if 2 of those titles were bought. So now that we've lost this title we simply have to analyse what went wrong. And the injuries certainly were a big factor, a massive factor in fact. But you can't ignore Allegri's role in this failure either.

Well, Han's known as The Great Debater® in these parts, so no surprises there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He's the type of guy who loves presenting arguments and gets a kick out of discussing things. I wouldn't call him totally stubborn (he had budged before, I recall), but Han sure likes standing by and defending his viewpoint.

I only don't budge when I know that viewpoint is correct. There is no way in hell that you can convince me that on paper, Juve have a better 11 and squad than us. Because that is just not true. And I stand by the statement that we threw away this Scudetto

[Danny]

Why because I categorically and unequivocally disagree with the ridiculous notion that Juve have the better squad than ours?

The fact you call it 'ridiculous' highlights how stubborn you are. It's a completely subjective viewpoint, but you're calling it ridiculous, as if your own opinion is the only one which counts.

The fact that we ran them to the second to final day while playing the backups of the backups at times says it all. Had Juve had to deal with such a situation they'd have ended up 7th for the third consecutive season.

Our starting 11, our rotation players, our depth in general is just better than theirs. Allegri made a million mistakes this season, and he's been by far one of the most infuriating aspects of the entire season, probably just slightly behind the relentless injuries, but I'm confident in saying that had he had the full team at his disposal throughout this entire season as Conte did, we'd have won the title.

Yes he still wouldn't have managed to comprise the cohesive unit that Conte did, but than again, with the quality at his disposal he wouldn't have needed to, just like last season.

I'm bringing up the fact that most of our games have been won due to individualistic brilliance, but had we won the title do you really think any one of us, especially me would care? F@ck no!! I'd forget the fact that he's been playing a brainless idiot for nearly 3 months straight, I'd forget the fact that Allegri simply refuses to utilise creative players and I'd forget how tactically rigid he is that he simply cannot seem to come up with a different system than the one he has in place. Had we been the team celebrating none of that would really matter. But we're not celebrating, we're left rueing the fact that we simply handed over this Scudetto to at disgusting team like Juve, who will most likely sew on a third star even if 2 of those titles were bought. So now that we've lost this title we simply have to analyse what went wrong. And the injuries certainly were a big factor, a massive factor in fact. But you can't ignore Allegri's role in this failure either.


I only don't budge when I know that viewpoint is correct. There is no way in hell that you can convince me that on paper, Juve have a better 11 and squad than us. Because that is just not true. And I stand by the statement that we threw away this Scudetto

Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.

Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.

You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.

You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.

[Rossoneri7]

The fact you call it 'ridiculous' highlights how stubborn you are. It's a completely subjective viewpoint, but you're calling it ridiculous, as if your own opinion is the only one which counts.



Disagree. We simply didn't manage to beat either Inter or Juve this season. Like it or not, imo that lost us the league. We struggled against most of the top sides - whether it was player performance, managerial error, refereeing mistake - whatever.

Our results against Inter and Juve were poor, and our results V the other good sides was average.

You can retread this squad line and Allegri line all you like, it's your opinion, as this is mine.

You don't win anything if you can't beat the big rivals.

Agreed, we didn't salvage anything when we played against Juve and inter got the better of us despite us being reigning champions (at the time).

However, I do sympathize with the Juve faithful as they have been through sh1t really and this title was deserved and a long-time coming for them.

[acid911]

However, I do sympathize with the Juve faithful as they have been through well-deserved sh1t really and this title was deserved and a long-time coming for them.

Fixed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's why I feel that this failure is 50/50 in terms of blame, half has to rest on Allegri's shoulders, the other has to be the injuries.

It would be great if it were this simple, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) Some part of the blame (10 percent each, at least) has to go to the players for playing like they did not gave a hoot, and for the management for keeping those players that did not gave a hoot. 50/50 sounds awfully good when you say it, but there is almost always more to the story.

Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.

You watch tapes of previous years, and you could see it in the eyes of our players. They wanted to win! Not this lot. Many a times I have got this impression that some of our players lacked that extra bit. Maybe because it was that the real champions were injured throughout the season, or the fact that a lot of the team had just won the league last year. But seeing Juventus, and seeing Milan, it was plain evident who wanted it more.

So my point is, even if it was 40% Allegri, and 40% injuries, the remaining 20% was split into two reasons as well.

[han2503]

Fixed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


It would be great if it were this simple, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) Some part of the blame (10 percent each, at least) has to go to the players for playing like they did not gave a hoot, and for the management for keeping those players that did not gave a hoot. 50/50 sounds awfully good when you say it, but there is almost always more to the story.

Some of the matches I've seen where players (who could be coaches by now in another reality) played like little kids with no direction, and not knowing what to do in tough situations during some of our matches this season. And these are meant to be professionals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Classic case of undeserving idiots earning free money for doing nothing - at least during those few matches, if not the whole season. These are paid pros, and they should know when and where to give their all, or even 120% during our toughest matches.

You watch tapes of previous years, and you could see it in the eyes of our players. They wanted to win! Not this lot. Many a times I have got this impression that some of our players lacked that extra bit. Maybe because it was that the real champions were injured throughout the season, or the fact that a lot of the team had just won the league last year. But seeing Juventus, and seeing Milan, it was plain evident who wanted it more.

So my point is, even if it was 40% Allegri, and 40% injuries, the remaining 20% was split into two reasons as well.

Who's job is it to motivate the players and make sure that the ones stepping on the pitch are the ones who should be playing not because of their name but because of what they can actually do once they go out there?

[acid911]

Who's job is it to motivate the players and make sure that the ones stepping on the pitch are the ones who should be playing not because of their name but because of what they can actually do once they go out there?

Yeah, I know, but it a certain someone isn't doing his job right, it doesn't absolve the other players. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some have been playing for us for decades, or close to it, others for 3, 5 or even more years. And the lethargy on display during some of the matches that I watched sure did put me to sleep. Last year was much better in this regard.

Allegri definitely is not the type of character who would excite enthusiasm in players. He is much more laid back.