[han2503]

Who: A.C. Milan vs. Atalanta B.C.



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/milan-atalanta_zpsbca60ba3.png)



Where: Stadio San Siro



(IMG:http://www.acmilan.com/uploads/club/sansiro.jpg)



When:
18th January 2015 @ 3:00pm CET


Head-to-Head Record



(IMG:http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah232/hannvis/milan-atalantastats_zps1a94695a.png)

[Danny]

Allegri Jnr v his old team.

Let's take the tiny glimpse of form from the cup win into this one.

[han2503]

Allegri Jnr v his old team.

Let's take the tiny glimpse of form from the cup win into this one.

I think if Pippo puts out the right 11 and plays a more attack minded game we'll do well.

If we play like we did vs Toro and Sassuolo, basically like bottom table feeders looking for a draw, we will get that draw or even lose.

For me, unless he's picking Muntari or Essien or Bonera, the players don't really matter all that much, it's how he uses them that's the problem imo.

If he has to play Menez, I'd rather see SES sit and Pazzo in the middle, than Menez as the false 9. I can't stand him in that role

Basically, I want to see something like this

Abate--Mexes--Alex--Armero
Monto--De Jong--Jack
Cerci--Pazzo/SES--Menez/SES

[X-Offender]

Some reports suggesting we could play 4-2-3-1

Monto - De Jong
Cerci - Menez - SES
Pazzo

[d'Arc.LP]

Some reports suggesting we could play 4-2-3-1

Monto - De Jong
Cerci - Menez - SES
Pazzo

I like this one.

[X-Offender]

I like this one.

A bit too unbalanced in my view, but it's better than what we've seen lately.

[X-Offender]

Here's Mediaset's line-up anyway: Lopez; Abate, Rami, Mexes, Armero; Montolivo, De Jong, Bonaventura; Cerci, Menez, El Shaarawy.

[d'Arc.LP]

A bit too unbalanced in my view, but it's better than what we've seen lately.

If Cerci, Menez and SES contribute on the defense too, I think we can do quite good.

[han2503]

Here's Mediaset's line-up anyway: Lopez; Abate, Rami, Mexes, Armero; Montolivo, De Jong, Bonaventura; Cerci, Menez, El Shaarawy.

Basically the one I posted but with Rami instead of Alex and Menez in that ridiculous #9 role

I'd rather Pippo just bench SES or play him as a striker than see Menez being played in that position tbh

[Danny]

Here's Mediaset's line-up anyway: Lopez; Abate, Rami, Mexes, Armero; Montolivo, De Jong, Bonaventura; Cerci, Menez, El Shaarawy.

Another match, more rotation. Beyond a joke tbh.

[acid911]

Another match, more rotation. Beyond a joke tbh.

My point since, well, our second official match. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) We'll never get consistency going this way, when the players know that they will be slided in or taken out, chip chop like this. And it has shown in the results in the first half of the season. Never liked Seedorf too much as a coach, but at least he had the basics right.

[Danny]

My point since, well, our second official match. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) We'll never get consistency going this way, when the players know that they will be slided in or taken out, chip chop like this. And it has shown in the results in the first half of the season. Never liked Seedorf too much as a coach, but at least he had the basics right.

Kind of, he too rotated. Not as ridiculously as this, but he did rotate.

But yes, consistency is impossible while Inzaghi is coach. How can Zapata regain form knowing he will be back out next match. He publicly complained about this. If results were better then yes, he should keep his thoughts private. But with them being this random he's justified in saying it.

[acid911]

Kind of, he too rotated. Not as ridiculously as this, but he did rotate.

Yeah, I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But with him one had a feeling that he was trying to create a system. The guy had a worse team than this, in that Balotelli was still wreaking havoc on the pitch and off it. Plus, there was the Allegri hangover, and well, on a pound for pound (read person for person) basis, this squad is slightly better.

But like I said, I had my issues with Seedorf, both as a player and as a coach. But at least he had a thought process, some method to madness, and was trying to implement a system. Not learning on the job like Inzaghi. Understandable, one was a midfield maestro, another a simple poacher.

But yes, consistency is impossible while Inzaghi is coach. How can Zapata regain form knowing he will be back out next match. He publicly complained about this. If results were better then yes, he should keep his thoughts private. But with them being this random he's justified in saying it.

Well put. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) I don't have any hope for long term improvements, at least not this season, as long as Inzaghi is the coach. Miracles can happen, but they should start to happen this week against Atalanta, and for the full 18 rounds of the second half of the season. Don't see no signs of that, and we're just scraping.

Scraping and living week by week, match by match. That's not the way to build a team, a squad, a club. That's why I always have a little chuckle when someone says we are an ongoing project. No signs of a project within a 100 miles radius with this management, this coach and this squad.

[han2503]

Kind of, he too rotated. Not as ridiculously as this, but he did rotate.

But yes, consistency is impossible while Inzaghi is coach. How can Zapata regain form knowing he will be back out next match. He publicly complained about this. If results were better then yes, he should keep his thoughts private. But with them being this random he's justified in saying it.

I'm personally p!ssed off that he keeps switching out Alex not Zapata.

Based on form throughout the season; Mexes and Alex have been our most stable and consistent performers. Why keep switching when it's critical that our defence starts working well as a unit? Why drop Alex to play Rami?

Both Rami and Zapata imo have had their good and bad moments this season, neither should be starting ahead of Mexes or Alex if they're fit.

[X-Offender]

Alex and Mexes would be a very slow pairing. They're not compatible.

[han2503]

Alex and Mexes would be a very slow pairing. They're not compatible.

Rami isn't exactly lightning quick either

The only real fast CB we have is Zapata and he comes in with a whole host of issues of his own

Alex and Mexes might not be quick, but neither are Terry and Cahill for example at Chelsea and they're one of the best CB duos around right now

It's not about how fast you are, this isn't Fifa, it's about how tactically aware you are and your positional sense. And Mexes and Alex both have these key ingredients, unlike Zapata or Rami

[Danny]

Alex and Mexes would be a very slow pairing. They're not compatible.

That and they're very, VERY similar types of defender. You need one collosal leader, strong in the air, good positional sense, and one quick, 'last minute block'-capable partner. Rami is neither of these. Both Mexes & Alex are the former. Zapata is the latter, and he and Alex work well together.

Coppa match was poor from Zaps, but then, as I say if you keep getting rotated out and in then expectations can't be sky high.

[Danny]

Rami isn't exactly lightning quick either

The only real fast CB we have is Zapata and he comes in with a whole host of issues of his own

Alex and Mexes might not be quick, but neither are Terry and Cahill for example at Chelsea and they're one of the best CB duos around right now

It's not about how fast you are, this isn't Fifa, it's about how tactically aware you are and your positional sense. And Mexes and Alex both have these key ingredients, unlike Zapata or Rami

You don't watch Chelsea that often. Terry is the Alex/Mexes of the partnership and Cahill the Zapata.

[han2503]

You don't watch Chelsea that often. Terry is the Alex/Mexes of the partnership and Cahill the Zapata.

I watch Chelsea regularly, and no way is Cahill the Zapata, he's not fast imo, both him and Terry are strong and have good positioning

As for Zapata he's just a decent defender who is speedy, every other important aspect that is crucial for a defender is lacking.

Even if they are both slow, I'd rather have 2 really good defenders capable of taking care of themselves without needing to have their hands held (both Zapata and Rami are this way), who are tactically smart and have good positioning that makes the speed factor not as important as when you have Zapata who's caught out but is fast enough to usually run back (we saw this failing just last week when he wasn't quick enough to get back and gave away the penalty because of the late tackle)

I'd rather have our 2 best defenders playing with each other, than playing just one of them and a much weaker one just to fit into some mould of what a CB pairing should consist of.

As for your theory that you keep insisting on that Zapata-Alex is our best pairing, I don't know where you came up with that since they only performed well together in that first game and have been shaky when they've played together again since then. Arguably our strongest showings in defence came with Mexes and Zapata or Rami next to him

[Danny]

Like I said, at the time of me saying it we had never lost with Alex in defence. First time we did was v Sassuolo.

And if you want to get really pedantic, and sure, let's, with Alex at the back we've conceded:

8 goals while he was on the pitch. 11 appearances. One defeat.

With Mexes on the pitch we've conceded:

5. 7 appearances. One defeat.

Basically they're almost exactly the same player, but Alex won't get sent off nor get involved with stupid spats with opposing players.

In essence, remove the crap from Mexes' game and make him even better in the air and you have Alex.

As for your Alex & Mexes theory (at least you've removed the atrocious Rami from the equation at last) I still say they're far too similar and it won't work. But I stand by the assertion that our best defensive display was v Lazio, and they are one of the best teams we've played this season. And that was Alex & Zapata.

[han2503]

Like I said, at the time of me saying it we had never lost with Alex in defence. First time we did was v Sassuolo.

And if you want to get really pedantic, and sure, let's, with Alex at the back we've conceded:

8 goals while he was on the pitch. 11 appearances. One defeat.

With Mexes on the pitch we've conceded:

5. 7 appearances. One defeat.

Basically they're almost exactly the same player, but Alex won't get sent off nor get involved with stupid spats with opposing players.

In essence, remove the crap from Mexes' game and make him even better in the air and you have Alex.

As for your Alex & Mexes theory (at least you've removed the atrocious Rami from the equation at last) I still say they're far too similar and it won't work. But I stand by the assertion that our best defensive display was v Lazio, and they are one of the best teams we've played this season. And that was Alex & Zapata.

I haven't removed Rami from the equation at all. I still maintain that he's the same level as Zapata, just remove the ridiculous passing give-aways and you have the same player. Both incapable of playing without someone who can lead the line, both capable of making bad mistakes, both have played very well when paired with Mexes.

One game doesn't say anything. Lazio were horrible on that day, we scored 3 times on them relatively easily. They've improved since then but basing your entire theory on that one game for me makes no sense. I've seen our defence perform better than that .i.e being more composed and efficient in how they handle the opposing team's attacks rather than scrambling around like we did at times vs Lazio

Alex and Zapata weren't that great last week, yet you blame it on rotation, but in reality you can blame that very same factor for any of our player under-performing as none of them (aside from maybe Menez) have had any good consistent run of games

As for my theory, you can't discredit it since you're never actually seen it in action.

And regarding Mexes, last I checked he's never been sent off this season. And has rarely had to walk that walk since he's been with us

[Danny]

I haven't removed Rami from the equation at all.

Yes you have, you asserted he was our best defender along with Mexes. That was the partnership you advocated.

I still maintain that he's the same level as Zapata, just remove the ridiculous passing give-aways and you have the same player. Both incapable of playing without someone who can lead the line, both capable of making bad mistakes, both have played very well when paired with Mexes.

One game doesn't say anything. Lazio were horrible on that day, we scored 3 times on them relatively easily. They've improved since then but basing your entire theory on that one game for me makes no sense. I've seen our defence perform better than that .i.e being more composed and efficient in how they handle the opposing team's attacks rather than scrambling around like we did at times vs Lazio

Alex and Zapata weren't that great last week, yet you blame it on rotation, but in reality you can blame that very same factor for any of our player under-performing as none of them (aside from maybe Menez) have had any good consistent run of games

Alex was ok, not brilliant but ok. But Zapata was terrible and he HAS been rotated to hell. He's arguably been the biggest victim.

As for my theory, you can't discredit it since you're never actually seen it in action.

And you can't credit it as neither have you!

And regarding Mexes, last I checked he's never been sent off this season. And has rarely had to walk that walk since he's been with us

Sometimes your pro-Mexes bias is comical.

[d'Arc.LP]

D.Lopez; Abate, Mexes, Rami, Bonera; Montolivo, De Jong, Bonaventura; Cerci, Menez, El Shaarawy.

Bench: Abbiati, Agazzi, Zaccardo, Alex, Armero, Albertazzi, Poli, Van Ginkel, Muntari, Niang, Mastour, Pazzini.

I like the line up, except for Bonera and Rami.

This post has been edited by d'Arc.LP: Jan 18 2015, 02:15 PM

[X-Offender]

That's possible the best line-up we can play except for frigging Bonera.

If we don't win even this then I officially give up on the 3rd spot.

[X-Offender]

I can't find any SopCast links for the match. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[d'Arc.LP]

I can't find any SopCast links for the match. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

rojadirecta dot es

[han2503]

Yes you have, you asserted he was our best defender along with Mexes. That was the partnership you advocated.

What?! When?

I've always said that Mexes and Alex are our best CBs by far, name one instance where I have said Rami is better than Alex and I'll wire you a £100!

That being said, I prefer Rami over Zapata because of Zapata's on the ball issues. I still think both are just barely okay defenders though

Alex was ok, not brilliant but ok. But Zapata was terrible and he HAS been rotated to hell. He's arguably been the biggest victim.

Every player on this team has suffered because of rotation. You can't dismiss that factor when it's someone you don't particularly like but use it as an excuse when it's someone you want to back.

Rami has suffered through the same start stop treatment as Zapata, just like Poli, Bonaventura, SES, etc

And you can't credit it as neither have you!

I never credited it per se. I have simply said that I personally think it would be our strongest partnership, while youhave automatically dismissed the possibility of it even working well

Sometimes your pro-Mexes bias is comical.

And your anti-Mexes bias is equally so

I remember you saying he'll be diabolical the first time he started this season, and after he came in after months being ignored and dismissed he put in a very solid performance, and yet you, even now, still barely acknowledge how good he's been this season when he's played

[han2503]

Good start, but we usually start this way then it goes downhill from there

[d'Arc.LP]

I'm enjoying El Shaarawy's work rate.

[d'Arc.LP]

Menez should have sent a better shot there.

[han2503]

Menez should have sent a better shot there.

From that angle he should have squared it, but he's allergic to passing the ball

[Fillipo Simone]

Again making the simple mistakes in midfield. Giving up the ball like some sissy's and creating Atalanta a good chance. Just like Sassuolo and a ton of other games.

[d'Arc.LP]

One down already.

[han2503]

Menez trying to be too smart, another mistake in midfield and we concede

[Fillipo Simone]

And now we concede. How? Menez playing with the ball in midfield.

[han2503]

And now we concede. How? Menez playing with the ball in midfield.

Back-healing it to an opponent will do that for you

[X-Offender]

1-0

Pathetic. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C. I haven't seen such a repulsive Milan in my life. There's absolutely no ounce of what someone might call 'game'. The players are static, they show no desire, no willingness, only doing the minimal things. The perfect embodiment of this is Montolivo, a pathetic excuse of a playmaker and an embarrassment to the legendary Milan capitancy. And Pippo on top of it call... For the love of god you who calls himself Milan manager, just do us all a favor and leave.

[han2503]

This no striker system absolutely kills us in attack. Menez has been frustrating as hell today, even without the stupid mistake that lead to the goal

[Fillipo Simone]

This no striker system absolutely kills us in attack. Menez has been frustrating as hell today, even without the stupid mistake that lead to the goal

Agreed.

[Ry4n]

im reading this atm


http://www.amazon.com/Am-The-Secret-Footba...l/dp/1783350040

makes me think of the clowns we have in this team...

[X-Offender]

This no striker system absolutely kills us in attack. Menez has been frustrating as hell today, even without the stupid mistake that lead to the goal

If that was our only problem we'd be 3rd place right now.

[han2503]

If that was our only problem we'd be 3rd place right now.

It's one of the big ones atm imo. We have no one in attack, Menez drops too deep or goes too wide. We played much better in attack vs Sassuolo because we had a real striker up there, capable of holding up the ball and bringing our wingers into play. Menez doesn't bring that at all into our attack, what he mostly does is pass the ball back, over-dribble or shoot

[han2503]

Why are SES and Menez both lumped in on the left now while no one is one the right??

[X-Offender]

Why are SES and Menez both lumped in on the left now while no one is one the right??

Menez is playing behind Pazzini, Bona is on the right.

[han2503]

Menez is playing behind Pazzini, Bona is on the right.

It looks mostly lopsided to me

[d'Arc.LP]

If we loose this one, and I think we will, or even draw, then Inzaghi has to go. I think we need a coach who demands much more from the players.

[Linkman]

I keep yelling at the screen "Sub yourself in, Pippo!"

[Linkman]

I don't think Pippo is the problem.

Just like Seedorf wasn't.

And Leo wasn't.

Allegri kind of was, though.

[X-Offender]

I don't think Pippo is the problem.

Just like Seedorf wasn't.

And Leo wasn't.

Allegri kind of was, though.

Pippo is one of the main problems. There's no point denying it.

[Linkman]

Oh but there is! Come on, we just switched coaches. Not even a year ago.

[acid911]

Our biggest problem are the background characters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) B&G.

[X-Offender]

Oh but there is! Come on, we just switched coaches. Not even a year ago.

Oh, but there is. I'll post a table later comparing Allegri, Seedorf and Inzaghi in the last two years.

[han2503]

I think it's high time Galliani evaluated Pippo's position

Until now, we've been lead to believe that he's untouchable, but this can't go on any longer

[Danny]

Pippo out. That is all.

[Danny]

Our biggest problem are the background characters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) B&G.

Not in this case. That's a top 3 Serie A team and this fucking idiot has it playing like a bottom 3 one.

Agree that B&G aren't exactly conducive to good things but Pippo's to blame for this crap.

[han2503]

Oh but there is! Come on, we just switched coaches. Not even a year ago.

We switched from a terrible coach, to a rookie and to another rookie in the space of a few months

This team is more well balanced then the one Allegri had yet Pippo is managing to do even worse than Allegri if that were possible

[Danny]

If we loose this one, and I think we will, or even draw, then Inzaghi has to go. I think we need a coach who demands much more from the players.

7 months of utter dross as we say here in Scotland. 2 wins in 12 Serie A matches.

He's both out of his depth and an outrageously poor football manager.

[Danny]

We switched from a terrible coach, to a rookie and to another rookie in the space of a few months

This team is more well balanced then the one Allegri had yet Pippo is managing to do even worse than Allegri if that were possible

It was the wrong appointment, I knew it from the start. I objected to it, said he was much better served in Primavera.

He did very well there.

But once appointed I gave him my full support till recently when it began to waver, but it's gone now.

He's the worst manager in the past 4 decades. Worse than Leo, Allegri, Seedorf or even Liedholm.

[kurtsimonw]

Maybe people will wake up and realise the players aren't very good. Allegri's 3rd place the other year is looking more and more like a miracle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[han2503]

Maybe people will wake up and realise the players aren't very good. Allegri's 3rd place the other year is looking more and more like a miracle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Surely not one masterminded by his incompetence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Danny]

Maybe people will wake up and realise the players aren't very good. Allegri's 3rd place the other year is looking more and more like a miracle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

They're better than this Kurt. We have a top 3 quality first team, certainly top 5 at worst. This is a bottom 3 level performance.

[X-Offender]

Milan under Allegri, Seedorf and Inzaghi in the last one year and a half, each of them with half a season at their disposal:

Allegri - 22 points; 5 wins, 7 draws, 7 losses
Seedorf - 35 points; 11 wins, 2 draws, 6 losses
Inzaghi - 26 points; 6 wins, 8 draws, 6 losses

Allegri was rightfully sacked because his Milan was unwatchable on top of achieving cringe-worthy results. Seedorf was sacked despite accomplishing a very good 35-point run, including 11 wins and sometimes very attractive football. Inzaghi has accomplished more or less the same as Allegri: terrible results and horrible, horrible displays.

Why was Seedorf sacked? Because a bunch of leeches and cockroaches who have the courage of calling themselves Milan senators showcased direct disapproval to Berlusconi against Seedorf. Because Seedorf was not in agreement with Galliani, as he deemed some players unfit or unworthy to be a part of this team. Some say Seedorf wasn't very warm and respectful, but rather cocky in his overall attitude. Yet, he accomplished very acceptable results during his spell with us.

Now you tell me, why shouldn't Inzaghi be sacked? Because he's a 'Yes-man'. He's Silvio and Galliani's b*tch (pardon my language). He doesn't moan, he doesn't complain. He simply accepts the status quo and doesn't move on. And this way of doing things is perfectly reflected onto his players, who show no desire and willingness to sweat and spit blood for this shirt. They are simply pedestrians on the pitch, acting as individualistic peasants rather than professionals fighting for that 3rd spot.

Overall, this club has many problems, but the management is what really brings us down. We have fallen so low, that winning is not the objective anymore. That Milan mentality has been lost for good...

[acid911]

Not in this case. That's a top 3 Serie A team and this fucking idiot has it playing like a bottom 3 one.

Agree that B&G aren't exactly conducive to good things but Pippo's to blame for this crap.

Nah, I'm actually taking a macro view, because, they were the ones that appointed him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Knowing that he barely any coaching experience of professional football, and zero knowledge of how to manage a big team a top club like this. The last thing we needed these past few years was an inexperienced coach that learns on the job.

Getting back to your point, though, yeah Inzaghi is to blame for these atrocious displays, and the players too. They're just taking fans for a ride, that's all. I mean, Atalanta for heaven's sake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) And look at the players we have at our disposal. But all said, Berlusconi, and in particular, Galliani should have known better than to hire Inzaghi.

There may come a day when all these character disappear from the club, and for me that day couldn't come sooner.

[acid911]

Overall, this club has many problems, but the management is what really brings us down. We have fallen so low, that winning is not the objective anymore. That Milan mentality has been lost for good...

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) We can blame the players and the coach as much as we want, but more blame should go to the ones that brought them here, in full knowledge that they were mediocre. And in the case of Inzaghi, he did not even have a history of managing a big team. The appointments of Leo, Seedorf and Allegri were the same actually.

Galliani doesn't have the gal to go hire a real, true, tested coach. A coach, not a rookie in a suit masquerading as one. Besides, Inzaghi was just a poacher, I never for one believed he had footballing intelligence, something that a midfield player for instance would have. For this reason hiring Seedorf was a chance I was willing to bet on.

But Allegri and Lenoardo, who are they but and what real knowledge of the game do they possess? It showed in their every decision, every substitution, and every lineup they fielded.

[acid911]

Oh, and just for the record, I believe we'd have won the league if Pablo was in charge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Pablo, as in Diego Pablo Simeone, or someone of his type that could extract the best from all available players. We haven't had a motivational coach in eons, actually. Someone that lifts the squad up by a few marks just with his actions.

[il_diavolo_mtl]

Oh, and just for the record, I believe we'd have won the league if Pablo was in charge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Pablo, as in Diego Pablo Simeone, or someone of his type that could extract the best from all available players. We haven't had a motivational coach in eons, actually. Someone that lifts the squad up by a few marks just with his actions.

who fits that mold? Mihajlovic is too principled to join an ex direct rival. what does that leave us with? Serse Cosmi? and lessn't forget that Pippo was supposed to be our motivator

[il_diavolo_mtl]

Also i've read that abate called out Cerci on his lax positioning and they got into a brawl...This can be either good or terrible, though it's nice to see some players give a **** a midst these performances...

[Danny]

I'm going to give some ratings for the hell of it:

Lopez: 7 Stopped it being worse. Had no chance with the goal.

Abate: 7 Can hold his head high. No lack of fight and kept trying to create up front, while doing a decent job at the back.

Mexes: 6 Reasonable overall.

Rami: 5 Mediocrity at its finest.

Bonera: 5 Did as well as a natural CB can at LB.

De Jong: 6 Not bad, been better, but some good moments of play breaking.

Monto: 2 Just...terrible. After a bright period of good form on his return, he's become worse than last season's Monto now. Since Sassuolo...just diabolical. Van Ginkel deserves a chance.

Bona: 8 By miles our best player. Showed skill, fight, willingness to get forward and defend. Really good.

Menez: 2 Back to old Menez.

SES: 6 He put everything he had in, but for all the effort up front, there is just rarely end product with him. But he's played worse than this.

Cerci: 3 Horrendous. Showed no attacking flair, and rightly subbed off.

Subs:

Armero: 6 To give him his dues he had a decent match - best he's played for us.

Pazzo: 4 Back to normal Pazzo. Effort but lack of quality.

Niang: 6 tbh he showed more attacking quality in his cameo than Menez & Cerci combined.

I don't actually blame any individual vfor the goal - it was just an all round poorly organised Milan conceding again. Oddly enough I noticed De Jong peg the danger but knew he couldn't get there in time. Pity he hadn't tracked the runner.

Pippo: 0 His time is up. Can't manage, can't motivate, hasn't the first clue about tactics, or altering a system, and consistently rotates the team no matter who is playing about how they're doing.

He needs to go.

[Danny]

Also i've read that abate called out Cerci on his lax positioning and they got into a brawl...This can be either good or terrible, though it's nice to see some players give a **** a midst these performances...

Abate is one of the most honourable players we have. He cares.

But not sure why Cerci is being blamed for bad positioning. In what sense? Attack? Defence?

[Danny]

PS the Cerci Abate spat has been more or less confirmed.

[X-Offender]

Monto: 2 Just...terrible. After a bright period of good form on his return, he's become worse than last season's Monto now. Since Sassuolo...just diabolical. Van Ginkel deserves a chance.

As I said in my previous post, he's the embodiment of this Milan. Mediocre player. I was closely observing him, whenever we had the ball in midfield, he was just lazily walking instead of freeing himself to receive the pass. This is something most of our players do, and one of our main issues that need to be addressed, but Montolivo is the captain. He's supposed to be the leader and brains of our midfield. To expect such behavior from him is unacceptable. He's a very small player, and to have him tarnish the legendary Milan armband perfectly demonstrates how low we have fallen.

[Rossoneri7]

Maybe people will wake up and realise the players aren't very good. Allegri's 3rd place the other year is looking more and more like a miracle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[X-Offender]

Just re-watched the goal. It's clearly De Jong's fault for leaving Denis run into the box. Mexes also should have been more aware at the moment of the pass.

[Danny]

As I said in my previous post, he's the embodiment of this Milan. Mediocre player. I was closely observing him, whenever we had the ball in midfield, he was just lazily walking instead of freeing himself to receive the pass. This is something most of our players do, and one of our main issues that need to be addressed, but Montolivo is the captain. He's supposed to be the leader and brains of our midfield. To expect such behavior from him is unacceptable. He's a very small player, and to have him tarnish the legendary Milan armband perfectly demonstrates how low we have fallen.

Can't disagree on current form. But I will say that without the captaincy he was MUCH better in 2012/2013. The guy just never was captain material, and I'm even wondering how he got it at Fiorentina as there isn't a leading bone in his body.

[Danny]

Just re-watched the goal. It's clearly De Jong's fault for leaving Denis run into the box. Mexes also should have been more aware at the moment of the pass.

Like I said in my post, De Jong at least did track back but pegged the danger too late - where was Monto? Half way line doing absolutely nothing.

And the goal itself was a collaboration of about 5 or 6 failings in truth - all defensive. But the gap between Mexes and Bonera was just comical.

[han2503]

Like I said in my post, De Jong at least did track back but pegged the danger too late - where was Monto? Half way line doing absolutely nothing.

And the goal itself was a collaboration of about 5 or 6 failings in truth - all defensive. But the gap between Mexes and Bonera was just comical.

I think in this case it's easy to place blame on an individual, or even multiple ones, but the problem is that Menez lost possession when we were pressing forward. So most players were caught off guard, as soon as the ball was turned over by Menez who back healed it to an opponent, the players tried to get back but because they were all seemingly in "relaxed" mode because we were in possession and had it not been for Menez's showboating we would have kept that possession they were caught off guard

I'm not saying it's right that they were in that relaxed mode, but the goal came about because of Menez's mistake. When you lose the ball in that area of the pitch you're always at risk.

And we tend to do this a lot. Muntari, Essien, Poli have all been major culprits in this. They're spaced out and send the ball to no one in the most dangerous areas. And usually for some reason we get out of jail, but at some point you're bound to get punished for it. And it's not just those 3. There's an air of indifference, lack of concentration, just being plain old spaced out at times from all our players

Most chances that our opponents create come about because of mistakes on the part of our own players, mistakes that at this level should not be made

[Fillipo Simone]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

[Danny]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

Han has a curious inability to aportion any blame to Monto or Mexes. I will whine about my favourites when they f*ck up (Cerci was an abomination and I gave Zapata pelters for the Coppa match) but Han struggles to.

And it's not an attack on you Han, just an observation.

[han2503]

Don't forget your golden boy, Montolivo. Plenty of wrong passing and "creating". Other then that, spot on.

Yeah, Monto has been bad in these last 3 games, no question. He made a bad pass that could have cost us as well but it wasn't punished.

Monto came back from injury and looked great, we return from the break and it's like he's a completely different player, that being said, the entire squad has returned from the break in terrible form and with an even worse attitude

Monto has been mostly pedestrian imo. He's not committing mistakes that catch the eye. He's just not influential. The games he played before the break there was a clear difference in how he improved our play, now he's just inconsequential to it.

@ Danny, I'm not reluctant to say anything about my favourites.

That being said, Mexes was one of the few good ones yesterday, so I don't get what point you're trying to make with him

However, as you can see I've been reluctant to place blame on any single individual, even the ones I'm not particularly a fan of (Cerci).

The problem lies so far away from individuals that atm I feel it's pointless to even mention each player one at a time. All of them are under performing, all of them are showing a lack of commitment atm, not just one or two players.

At this point my only point is Pippo, he needs to be let go, this is just not acceptable, it's just as unacceptable as Allegri was imo, and dragging this out like we did with Allegri will only continue to hurt this team even more

[Fillipo Simone]

Yeah, Monto has been bad in these last 3 games, no question. He made a bad pass that could have cost us as well but it wasn't punished.

Monto came back from injury and looked great, we return from the break and it's like he's a completely different player, that being said, the entire squad has returned from the break in terrible form and with an even worse attitude

Agreed again. But say, when did Monto look great? I think it's partly a myth, he had made one or two good matches. Was he MoM? Did he do anything concrete to be great?

Monto has been mostly pedestrian imo. He's not committing mistakes that catch the eye. He's just not influential. The games he played before the break there was a clear difference in how he improved our play, now he's just inconsequential to it.

Sorry, his mistakes caught my eye. His absolutely stunningly poor goal shooting, his imprecise passing and on top of it his dangerous give-aways. And I would buy that "he's come from an injury" excuse the moment you mentioned it, if only I did not know that "inconsequential" and "inconsistently average" has Monto written all over it, from day one at Milan.

[han2503]

Agreed again. But say, when did Monto look great? I think it's partly a myth, he had made one or two good matches. Was he MoM? Did he do anything concrete to be great?



Sorry, his mistakes caught my eye. His absolutely stunningly poor goal shooting, his imprecise passing and on top of it his dangerous give-aways. And I would buy that "he's come from an injury" excuse the moment you mentioned it, if only I did not know that "inconsequential" and "inconsistently average" has Monto written all over it, from day one at Milan.

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

I think those games vs these last 3 show a very clear slump in how he's playing, a complete nose dive in form and when he's playing like this, yes I agree, he becomes inconsequential to our game and doesn't add anything to it. However I disagree that this has been the case from day one. He had a very good first season with us. Last season was average at best and this season he's spent half of it out injured.

I get that you say that the injury is an "excuse" but you have to factor in that he is returning from a very serious leg fracture that required knee surgery to correct. Most players take an entire year to recover from that and start playing with any sort of consistency. Most never really return back to their old selves. Think David Villa, Wilshire, etc. I know people simply cannot accept this as an excuse because we're in a position were we can't afford to have him not playing well, we don't really have a back up so his failings are magnified even more.

[Danny]

@ Danny, I'm not reluctant to say anything about my favourites.

That being said, Mexes was one of the few good ones yesterday, so I don't get what point you're trying to make with him

However, as you can see I've been reluctant to place blame on any single individual, even the ones I'm not particularly a fan of (Cerci).

The problem lies so far away from individuals that atm I feel it's pointless to even mention each player one at a time. All of them are under performing, all of them are showing a lack of commitment atm, not just one or two players.

At this point my only point is Pippo, he needs to be let go, this is just not acceptable, it's just as unacceptable as Allegri was imo, and dragging this out like we did with Allegri will only continue to hurt this team even more

My point re: Mexes is you never criticise his bad performances, instead spinning it that he was great/good. He can do no wrong in your eyes beyond being 'occasionally hotheaded'. At least you admit Monto's a travesty. So 1 out of 2 ain't bad and I'll take it.

[han2503]

My point re: Mexes is you never criticise his bad performances, instead spinning it that he was great/good. He can do no wrong in your eyes beyond being 'occasionally hotheaded'. At least you admit Monto's a travesty. So 1 out of 2 ain't bad and I'll take it.

Point me to one single bad game this season and you'll have the 2 out of 2. The only iffy performance he's had was last week against Toro, but he was far from bad, just not on his usual game, and as you may probably remember I certainly didn't say he was good/great in that one

[Danny]

Point me to one single bad game this season and you'll have the 2 out of 2. The only iffy performance he's had was last week against Toro, but he was far from bad, just not on his usual game, and as you may probably remember I certainly didn't say he was good/great in that one

See? When he's bad you spin it as 'iffy'.

[X-Offender]

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

No offense, but that's horseshit. Keeps the ball moving? Controls the tempo? He does no such things. He's a useless dud, as useless as Muntari. He's never been anything impressive with this shirt. Only one decent season doesn't make you a good, reliable player. At best he can be a DM that breaks play and makes the simple pass, but even at that I wouldn't put much faith him. The fact that he's considered the "playmaker" of our team makes me shudder in disgust.

[Fillipo Simone]

I think the last 3 matches we played before the break Monto did look very good and he improved our play. He's not an assist man, but when he's doing his job right he helps to ensure the ball keeps moving and he controls tempo better than anyone we have.

I think those games vs these last 3 show a very clear slump in how he's playing, a complete nose dive in form and when he's playing like this, yes I agree, he becomes inconsequential to our game and doesn't add anything to it. However I disagree that this has been the case from day one. He had a very good first season with us. Last season was average at best and this season he's spent half of it out injured.

Very good first seasons? How tangible is that? What did he exactly make to be very good? I still think you've gotta do assists and goals to be very good in this game for a season, even a deep midfielder. You have some rare exemptions like Effenberg or Pirlo, but first, you look at their stats and you still see their contribution and secondly they add much more then just "tempo" and "moving the ball around". You like Montolivo, and out of all our midfielders, he may be the most talented one. But it's not enough. In fact, looking back, I hardly can find any past or present player like Montolivo, who sort of is our key midfielder but does not contribute with key stats. Can you name me one such (good) player?

Look at our midfield. You have Montolivo and NDJ who are practically vaccinated from being dangerous for the opposition. You can easily let Monto shoot around or cross the ball, because he rarely hits the target. Same for NDJ. You know how problematic this is? Players like Davids and Gattuso used to make up for this problem with giving their ins and outs, playing like pitbulls. Do you see this in Monto? Well, only when we play Barcelona.

I get that you say that the injury is an "excuse" but you have to factor in that he is returning from a very serious leg fracture that required knee surgery to correct. Most players take an entire year to recover from that and start playing with any sort of consistency. Most never really return back to their old selves. Think David Villa, Wilshire, etc. I know people simply cannot accept this as an excuse because we're in a position were we can't afford to have him not playing well, we don't really have a back up so his failings are magnified even more.

But no, I get the whole injured thing. But problem is: Montolivo is back and I honestly think this is his old self, a recuperated Montolivo. I don't think it has anything to do with the injury. This was his problem all the way, he never once showed 3 good performances in a row, never actually worked his *** off or made some tangible contributions.

No offense, but that's horseshit. Keeps the ball moving? Controls the tempo? He does no such things. He's a useless dud, as useless as Muntari. He's never been anything impressive with this shirt. Only one decent season doesn't make you a good, reliable player. At best he can be a DM that breaks play and makes the simple pass, but even at that I wouldn't put much faith him. The fact that he's considered the "playmaker" of our team makes me shudder in disgust.

No man, Muntari is on another level. But yes, you got it right, playmaker my ***. Just think of Boban, Albertini, Rui Costa and Pirlo. Now put in Montolivo and you can instantly shoot yourself.

[Danny]

tbh Monto isn't like any of them Pippo. He has never been portrayed as a DLP, or a borderline treq, even if he's been played as both occasionally.

What he is is a dreadfully poor man's Gerrard. That kind of supposed 'pulling the strings' general in midfield, calming things, leading midfield, playing the right pass.

He's supposed to be that but he's not even doing that now.

[X-Offender]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

[d'Arc.LP]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

Well every team has it's ups and downs. I think there will be some years, hopefully not decades till (if) we get where we were. If you take a look at football history every team has had some bad years. The important thing is that we get back.

[X-Offender]

Well every team has it's ups and downs. I think there will be some years, hopefully not decades till (if) we get where we were. If you take a look at football history every team has had some bad years. The important thing is that we get back.

Things will definitely take a turn after Silvio kicks the bucket. Whether they will take a turn for the good or for the bad, that's unknown. Some teams have had downs and have not been able to recover since.

[Fillipo Simone]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

Well, it's the same old tune for quite some time. Remember the days when we were sure (or almost sure) that Galliani was gone and that Barbara would step in? Soon this has been reduced to a co-habitation between the two, and now back to Galliani.

The club is simply unable to make changes or decisive moves, because so many people have their hands in it deep and their egos do not allow any fairness.

[Forza Milan!]

This is mind-blowing. There were reports yesterday claiming Berlusconi was furious after Sunday's defeat, saying "I understand the times when we used to win against Barcelona are gone, but it's unacceptable to lose against teams who have 5x lower budgets than ours". Then, today, he denied having said such things, and that he's close to the team and Inzaghi.

Source: Mediaset

WTF?! So, it's OK to lose against Sassuolo and Atalanta at home? I'm really pissed at this management for the way they take things nowadays. Yes, we're not the big Milan anymore blah blah blah, but there's a vast difference between winning the Serie A and the Champions, and being 8th in a crappy league by playing some atrocious football. We cannot be this bad! Where's the reaction? Even from the fans, there's no backlash, no reaction to this status quo that's bringing us down year by year. It's like we've accepted that we're a mid-table team. Gah!!!

Yup. We should be challenging for 3rd place, even with our reduced budget. Pippo has been a huge disappointment, but he is not at the root of the problem. Looks to me like we are doomed to mediocrity with B&G. Anyone still believe we have a "project" or a "grand plan"?

[Danny]

As much as Bertie and Gimrod have a part to play, we DO have a decent squad and Pippo has reduced it to a pile of shite.

95% of the blame for the woeful results this season is Pippo.

[X-Offender]

That's why we were blaming Allegri in the first place, wasn't it? Maybe we overestimate our players a bit, but even so, 26 points in 19 games is too little. The 3rd place is theoretically impossible because Juve, Roma and Napoli are better than us, but 4th and 5th place are totally within our reach, yet we are massively under-performing. Not to mention the ugly-@ss football we play. At least with Allegri in 12/13 we played like crap but still managed to get that 3rd spot (with a bit of luck and help from referees, that is).

If I were to describe Pippo's Milan in one word, it would be 'life-less'.

[Danny]

The day X off gives any kind of 'support' to Allegri is the day the earth stops spinning.

That day has happened.

[Fillipo Simone]

That's why we were blaming Allegri in the first place, wasn't it? Maybe we overestimate our players a bit, but even so, 26 points in 19 games is too little. The 3rd place is theoretically impossible because Juve, Roma and Napoli are better than us, but 4th and 5th place are totally within our reach, yet we are massively under-performing. Not to mention the ugly-@ss football we play. At least with Allegri in 12/13 we played like crap but still managed to get that 3rd spot (with a bit of luck and help from referees, that is).

If I were to describe Pippo's Milan in one word, it would be 'life-less'.

Well, at the beginning of the season some of us here said 3rd place should be reachable. Now we are 4th or 5th place chasers - but this is still a very much reachable goal, don't you think?

Allegri managed to get us 3rd but he had a better squad. I don't know what you guys expect, we have a toothless attack with a washed out Pazzini, Torres (now gone) and the never in-form SES. Much goes on Pippo and his insisting in the stupid wingers plus false 9 system, agreed.

But Allegri had matchwinners like Ibrahimović and Balotelli in his squad. Every 3rd or 4th match we played they would pull out a stunner and win games like Atalanta, Bologna, Siena, etc. by themselves.

One other thing is, both Seedorf and Inzaghi couldn't shake off the mentality Allegri and our management inflicted to the team. Seedorf was getting closer to the task, while Inzaghi seemingly goes along the stream and tries to build around such a small minded mentality.

Thing is, by sacking Inzaghi we won't achieve anything unless the management changes their approach. If Inzaghi goes, in comes - say Gattuso, Ambrosini or anyone who's prepared to take over and listen to Galliani and Berlu without much resistance.

[acid911]

One other thing is, both Seedorf and Inzaghi couldn't shake off the mentality Allegri and our management inflicted to the team. Seedorf was getting closer to the task, while Inzaghi seemingly goes along the stream and tries to build around such a small minded mentality.

Said it straight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Well put, and that's what most of us having been saying for a while now.

[Danny]

Allegri managed to get us 3rd but he had a better squad.

Really?

(IMG:http://s27.postimg.org/4vezi13r7/Untitle1d.png)

It's really not that different, and it doesn't have the likes of Bona, Alex, Lopez, Menez, Cerci, and Suso.

Indeed the best team there is arguably: Abbiati, Abate, Mexes, Zapata, MDS, De Jong, Flamini, Monto, Boateng, Balo & SES. And by the time he left (end of that season IIRC), Boateng was absolutely horrendous for us.

The one thing Allegri had was Balo during the peak of his career - January 2013 - summer that year. But for Balo those 6 months read Menez today.

I wouldn't say our current squad is any weaker. I'd say it's actually stronger. Two decent keepers, a glut of (in theory) decent CBs like Rami, Mexes, Alex, Zapata, a whole host of midfielders like Monto, De Jong, Van Ginkel, Jack, Essien, Muntari, and attackers like SES, Menez, Cerci, Pazzo etc.

I don't believe Allegri's squad was better at all. Same at best, weaker at worst.

[Forza Milan!]

Really?

(IMG:http://s27.postimg.org/4vezi13r7/Untitle1d.png)

It's really not that different, and it doesn't have the likes of Bona, Alex, Lopez, Menez, Cerci, and Suso.

Indeed the best team there is arguably: Abbiati, Abate, Mexes, Zapata, MDS, De Jong, Flamini, Monto, Boateng, Balo & SES. And by the time he left (end of that season IIRC), Boateng was absolutely horrendous for us.

The one thing Allegri had was Balo during the peak of his career - January 2013 - summer that year. But for Balo those 6 months read Menez today.

I wouldn't say our current squad is any weaker. I'd say it's actually stronger. Two decent keepers, a glut of (in theory) decent CBs like Rami, Mexes, Alex, Zapata, a whole host of midfielders like Monto, De Jong, Van Ginkel, Jack, Essien, Muntari, and attackers like SES, Menez, Cerci, Pazzo etc.

I don't believe Allegri's squad was better at all. Same at best, weaker at worst.

I agree that our squad is a little better than it was the last couple of years, at least on paper. With this squad, and with the current state of other Serie A teams, 3rd place should have been achievable this year. I agree that most of the blame for our pathetic results goes to Pippo. However, Pippo was selected by Galliani with Berlu's approval.

Pippo fits Galliani's objectives because he is unlikely to challenge the leadership or press for changes or heavy investments. Not sure why Berlu still goes along with Galliani (could be that it is too expensive to sack him, or maybe Berlu is just operating under some delusions of grandeur, or whatever). The point is that this situation dooms us to mediocrity, and I see no burning desire on B&G's part to change anything. (Beyond empty words.) And IMHO anyone that still believes present management has any "vision" or is doing anything more than fumbling around is smoking something bad.

[Fillipo Simone]

Balotelli was the difference maker, while SES and Pazzo were in-form strikers. Agreed, much upon the striker form falls on Pippo's sholders, but I'd still have Balo in our team any day over Menez.