[han2503]

Who: Parma FC vs. AC Milan



(IMG:https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/392x184q90/538/nbrPfC.png)



Where: Stadio Ennio Tardini



(IMG:http://www.fotbalportal.cz/www/images/stadiony/338-stadio-ennio-tardini-580-250.jpg)



When:
14th September 2014 @ 8:45pm CET


Head-to-Head Record



(IMG:https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/636x194q90/631/xOfeTD.png)

[Fillipo Simone]

Wow, nice effort Han. Keep up the good work.

[han2503]

Wow, nice effort Han. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, trying to make these a little more interesting, especially since it's only Serie A this season

[Fillipo Simone]

Plus Coppa games (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But very good work indeed.

[han2503]

Plus Coppa games (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But very good work indeed.

Yeah, the Coppa too, maybe we can finally put in some decent displays in that competition


I think this is the game where we can finally talk about how the new players will be fitting in. I'm curious to see how Pippo will use Bonaventura, whether he'll use Van Ginkel from the start and how Torres will fit into the attacking line.

Also curious who he'll choose between Menez and Honda

[Fillipo Simone]

I'd pick Honda to be honest, and Menez as a bench sub for the last half an hour.

Lazio was a good game, but I hope we won't underestimate Parma. It must be said that Lazio isn't the same as in recent years, they've simply lost too many good players, while others are old and shabby.

[X-Offender]

I'd pick Honda to be honest, and Menez as a bench sub for the last half an hour.

I would always play Menez. He's the exact kind of player we need upfront.

Lazio was a good game, but I hope we won't underestimate Parma. It must be said that Lazio isn't the same as in recent years, they've simply lost too many good players, while others are old and shabby.

Hm, I actually thought Lazio got stronger this season.

[Fillipo Simone]

Hm, I actually thought Lazio got stronger this season.

Really? How exactly?

Pioli is a bad coach IMO and I cannot see how he was selected as Lazio coach in the first place. By getting Bologna relegated?

Playing Lulić in the middle for example didn't help, on the contrary. They've lost defensive stability without Biava and Dias (who I don't rate that high, but they did a solid job) and looked too many times totally out of sync (even for the first league match). Klose and Radu seem too old and out of shape, while the team lacks a true midfielder in Hernanes. Only Mauri showed the necessary spark.

[han2503]

I'd pick Honda to be honest, and Menez as a bench sub for the last half an hour.

Lazio was a good game, but I hope we won't underestimate Parma. It must be said that Lazio isn't the same as in recent years, they've simply lost too many good players, while others are old and shabby.

Well Parma did beat us twice over last season, so yeah, we should approach it with caution

[X-Offender]

Really? How exactly?

Pioli is a bad coach IMO and I cannot see how he was selected as Lazio coach in the first place. By getting Bologna relegated?

Playing Lulić in the middle for example didn't help, on the contrary. They've lost defensive stability without Biava and Dias (who I don't rate that high, but they did a solid job) and looked too many times totally out of sync (even for the first league match). Klose and Radu seem too old and out of shape, while the team lacks a true midfielder in Hernanes. Only Mauri showed the necessary spark.

Well, they got Basta, De Vrij and Parolo (whom I consider a mediocre player, but for a team like Lazio he's appropriate). Plus they managed to keep Candreva. Maybe I made a mistake in saying they got stronger, but they certainly aren't as weak as you portray them compared to previous seasons.

[kurtsimonw]

I think their squad got stronger, just maybe not their first XI. I like Basta as a player, great work rate.

Is their any doubt Biabiany is going to score against us after this summers pursuit of him?

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Sep 6 2014, 05:32 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

Basta is a good player. Undecided on de Vrij. His debut was abysmal. Yes, Parolo will find his place in the team. But without a real good coach, a solid defense and someone who can start the actions, I don't see how it's gonna work. I'd prefer all the previous Lazio selection to this one. There's just too many question marks.

[Danny]

I'd pick Honda to be honest, and Menez as a bench sub for the last half an hour.

Ditto.

Or a front line of Torres, El-Sha & Niang?

PS I echo your sentiments about the match threads - excellent work Han, they're looking good.

[Danny]

Hm, I actually thought Lazio got stronger this season.

Me too then I watched them opening day v us and they were ghastly. Along with us being very good.

[Danny]

Well Parma did beat us twice over last season, so yeah, we should approach it with caution

Last season we were Milanotelli. Now we're a team.

[han2503]

Ditto.

Or a front line of Torres, El-Sha & Niang?

PS I echo your sentiments about the match threads - excellent work Han, they're looking good.

Thanks

And personally I don't think Niang should be starting, or played on the wing, I'd like to see him get some minutes as a CF, both in the Coppa and as a sub

[Danny]

I said that more because I'm dubious at best about Menez. I feel he carries no threat going forward. And I know, I know, everyone thought he was great V Lazio, but I didn't see that player.

So I hope he shows me how wrong I am V Parma.

[han2503]

I said that more because I'm dubious at best about Menez. I feel he carries no threat going forward. And I know, I know, everyone thought he was great V Lazio, but I didn't see that player.

So I hope he shows me how wrong I am V Parma.

Still I don't think the solution is Niang on the wing, he's very obviously not a winger, playing him there is a complete waste and makes him look worse than he really is

I have a feeling that Pippo will be sticking with Honda there anyway, he's in good form atm and scoring goals, even though he's obviously not going to be showing what he can really do on the wing, he's still producing there atm, so I think Pippo will stick with him for now

I'm mostly curious as to who he'll pick for the midfield 3. I'm personally hoping he'll just shove both Bonaventura and Van Ginkel in instead of Poli and Muntari who were both disappointing against Lazio (well Poli was disappointing, Muntari was his usual idiotic self)

[Danny]

Half the reason for Honda's renaissance is that yes, though he is on the right, he's also being given the freedom to be more central too. So he's probably operating around 60-70% capacity rather than the 30-50% he was before.

Agree on MvG, De Jong and Bonaventura for midfield although I thought Poli had a good game v Lazio.

[Fillipo Simone]

Honda renaissance? Hopefully, but we're not yet there IMO. He still has to prove he can maintain his good form.

[X-Offender]

Honda's in good form, but still I think he can do much better if played in midfield. Even if he's at 100%, even if he gives everything he's got, he's simply not suited for playing as winger. He has absolutely no quality whatsoever to cover that role, like speed, dribbling skills and physical strength. Menez is much more suited, and aside from what Danny thinks, he was really good against Lazio.

[Danny]

Happy for him to prove me wrong, as I said.

[han2503]

Half the reason for Honda's renaissance is that yes, though he is on the right, he's also being given the freedom to be more central too. So he's probably operating around 60-70% capacity rather than the 30-50% he was before.

Agree on MvG, De Jong and Bonaventura for midfield although I thought Poli had a good game v Lazio.

I don't think it's a renaissance per se. I think he's more comfortable within the team and the group as both a player and a person. Coming in during the middle of the season while the club is in turmoil, the coach is on his last breath and then changing said coach within 2 weeks of being with the new team cannot be easy for anyone, especially someone who's going to experience such a major culture shock as Honda would have experienced.

I still think that it's as x-off said, he's totally wasted on the wing so I don't think we're even seeing the 60-70% you're mentioning. His place should either be in the midfield 3 or just behind SES and Torres.

As for Poli, I've mentioned this before but I really do think that he needs a proper passing player next to him to do well, by passing, I mean a player who can control the tempo. He's more of a quick 1-2 player. And what I saw against Lazio was a lot of running and huffing and puffing and very little in terms of match involvement and crucial passes. He works hard defensively which I like but we do have De Jong for that and Poli is mostly needed for the midfield to help provide a link with the attack, which he wasn't really doing.

I just personally don't see him as a starter in the near future, especially if Van Ginkel and Bonaventura (we should really find a shorter name for him) click into the team, and once Monto returns from his injury, it will be even more difficult for him to find space.

Honda renaissance? Hopefully, but we're not yet there IMO. He still has to prove he can maintain his good form.

I think he needs to be given a proper chance in the centre to really show what he can do before we judge him on anything tbh. Even the good he's doing now is marred by the fact that he's being limited in that winger position and you know he can do a lot better than that

Honda's in good form, but still I think he can do much better if played in midfield. Even if he's at 100%, even if he gives everything he's got, he's simply not suited for playing as winger. He has absolutely no quality whatsoever to cover that role, like speed, dribbling skills and physical strength. Menez is much more suited, and aside from what Danny thinks, he was really good against Lazio.

Agreed

[X-Offender]

Which do you guys prefer?

(IMG:http://i61.tinypic.com/fodce8.png)

[Fillipo Simone]

The left one, minus van Ginkel. I'd play Poli.

[KillerMax]

Left one!

[Danny]

Neither will happen given it's 4-3-3 formation Pippo insists on.

I don't even know if I like either of them - one on the left didn't really work under Seedorf at all, and the one on the right is imbalanced.

I'd prefer:

MvG -- De Jong -- Bonaventura

Menez----Torres--------SES

Yes, I'm giving Menez a chance, ain't that good of me. That or Honda behind Torres and SES for a 1-2.

[Danny]

Actually, I misread the one on the right. That's closer to my vision. Just would rather the midfield is a flatter 3 than a reverse triangle.

[X-Offender]

I don't even know if I like either of them - one on the left didn't really work under Seedorf at all.

Just because it didn't work under Seedorf doesn't mean it won't work under Pippo. First of all, it had completely different players. Kaká, Robinho, Taarabt, Balotelli, all of which are gone.

The problem is that I have a slight feeling if Pippo ever used it, he would play Menez behind Torres and Honda on the wing...

[William405]

The formation is working for now, why change it? It fits our players perfectly.

[Danny]

The formation is working for now, why change it? It fits our players perfectly.

My point exactly. Adapt if things go wrong but for now we have something working. No need to alter it.

[X-Offender]

Well, yes, I agree. It's still too early to change. But even going with 4-3-3, I still think this is our best line-up.

[milanbuf88]

I like that line up but I'd like to see Honda actually play in the midfield three before that line up is declared our best. Bonnaventura and Van Ginkel also deserve a chance to show what they've got in that spot.

[Danny]

Well, yes, I agree. It's still too early to change. But even going with 4-3-3, I still think this is our best line-up.

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=4vy0j

That would be mine. I'm going on the assumption Menez picks up, and that Torres does well.

But the midfield picks itself.

PS you're not going with Mexes?

[milanbuf88]

But the midfield picks itself.

I wouldn't write Poli off just yet.

[Danny]

I wouldn't write Poli off just yet.

I'm not, I like him a lot. But I don't think he's as good as either MvG or Bonaventura. If we played a four he'd be my fourth selection alongside them.

[X-Offender]

PS you're not going with Mexes?

Like I said in a previous post, both Alex and Zapata were impressive against Lazio, so I think it's appropriate to stick with them for now.

I'm not, I like him a lot. But I don't think he's as good as either MvG or Bonaventura. If we played a four he'd be my fourth selection alongside them.

The Bonaventura obsession is a tad weird. He's 25, been called up only once for the NT in a friendly against San Marino. Why are we so sure he's so awesome?

[Danny]

Like I said in a previous post, both Alex and Zapata were impressive against Lazio, so I think it's appropriate to stick with them for now.

Fair enough. They're my first-choice and have been since the Trofeo.

The Bonaventura obsession is a tad weird. He's 25, been called up only once for the NT in a friendly against San Marino. Why are we so sure he's so awesome?

It's more that I know what Poli's limits are. He is a Gattuso figure, a harrying worker who will run all day but doesn't offer a lot in the final third. Meanwhile Bonaventura does, while also being a fully-capable CM.

Just strikes me that De Jong as DM, MvG as CM and Bonaventura as AM is a better balance than having De Jong & Poli with MvG.

They COULD work together as a four, but not as a 3. For a 3 you need your DM, CM, and AM. Not a DM, DM and CM.

[Fillipo Simone]

Gattuso? More of a Ambrosini, but I wouldn't compare him to any of the two. Flamini is the nearest I suppose.

Obsession? I wouldn't say obsession, but I've seen Bonaventura play and he's been good (also against Milan) on various occasions. He may lack consistency, but well, this is his first big step, we'll see what turns out. He gives hope, that's sure.

As for the fantasy line-ups and formations. I know it's only one match, but yesterday De Sciglio played pretty good on the left for Conte's Italy. What do you guys say of a Juventus-style 3 man defense (Alex-Mexes-Zapata/Bonera/Rami) and two wingbacks?

[X-Offender]

It's more that I know what Poli's limits are. He is a Gattuso figure, a harrying worker who will run all day but doesn't offer a lot in the final third. Meanwhile Bonaventura does, while also being a fully-capable CM.

Just strikes me that De Jong as DM, MvG as CM and Bonaventura as AM is a better balance than having De Jong & Poli with MvG.

They COULD work together as a four, but not as a 3. For a 3 you need your DM, CM, and AM. Not a DM, DM and CM.

By that logic then I would prefer Honda over Bonaventura.

As for the fantasy line-ups and formations. I know it's only one match, but yesterday De Sciglio played pretty good on the left for Conte's Italy. What do you guys say of a Juventus-style 3 man defense (Alex-Mexes-Zapata/Bonera/Rami) and two wingbacks?

I've thought of it. It's not a bad idea. We have the players.

[han2503]

Gattuso? More of a Ambrosini, but I wouldn't compare him to any of the two. Flamini is the nearest I suppose.

Obsession? I wouldn't say obsession, but I've seen Bonaventura play and he's been good (also against Milan) on various occasions. He may lack consistency, but well, this is his first big step, we'll see what turns out. He gives hope, that's sure.

As for the fantasy line-ups and formations. I know it's only one match, but yesterday De Sciglio played pretty good on the left for Conte's Italy. What do you guys say of a Juventus-style 3 man defense (Alex-Mexes-Zapata/Bonera/Rami) and two wingbacks?

I personally hate a 3-man defence system.

I think we're better off with a 4

[Danny]

By that logic then I would prefer Honda over Bonaventura.

To paraphrase yourself, 'what's the obsession over Honda' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

I personally hate a 3-man defence system.

I think we're better off with a 4

I'm not a fan as well. But like X-O pointed out, we have the players to do it.

[han2503]

I'm not a fan as well. But like X-O pointed out, we have the players to do it.

I personally think DS is better as a proper FB than a WB, same goes with Abate

Also, I think our CBs, Zapata aside have never really played in a back 3

[Danny]

I personally think DS is better as a proper FB than a WB, same goes with Abate

Also, I think our CBs, Zapata aside have never really played in a back 3

It's a dangerous formation to simply jump into when you've not really worked on it in competitive matches before.

I'd rather stick with our 4.

[William405]

High Five #ParmaMilan

http://youtu.be/MI6sYlfM1TE?list=UUKcx1uK38H4AOkmfv4ywlrg

[Fillipo Simone]

Very good compilation. So many memories...Pirlo's last goal for us, Maurizio Ganz and his stunner for our comeback...

And I love how they've included Dida's save into this one as well. Usually it's only goals.

[han2503]

It's a dangerous formation to simply jump into when you've not really worked on it in competitive matches before.

I'd rather stick with our 4.

Agreed

Very good compilation. So many memories...Pirlo's last goal for us, Maurizio Ganz and his stunner for our comeback...

And I love how they've included Dida's save into this one as well. Usually it's only goals.

I think they included saves in the Lazio compilation as well. Milan channel trying to get creative (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

And they are. Good job really.

[X-Offender]

To paraphrase yourself, 'what's the obsession over Honda' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I don't know, maybe because I've actually seen Honda play on a constant basis, and I know how good he can be.

[Jack Sparrow]

I must be one of the few here who think he cannot play in the mid three. Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time. And truth be told we can't.

Not since Rino lost his legs, did we have the freedom of playing both Seedorf and Pirlo in the midfield three. If you remember once Rino lost his legs, we immediately put in Ambrosini and pushed Zee up while taking off an additional striker.

I wonder if we're making the mistake of thinking De Jong is a Gattuso type who can do the work of two people in midfield. Because he absolutely isn't.

For me I think Honda in his current position is fine. He 'starts in position' on that right wing, but the system has allowed him a lot of freedom to make runs at will, and run in to the centre. I notice that is very different from Zee who had a very rigid implementation of the 4-2-3-1.

Probably to get his 'best' which is to say to get the best position he has played in from past record, we'd have to go to an X-Mas tree or a Pyramid/Diamond 4-3-1-2.

I don't like that personally, because to play Honda in position we often end up having to play 2 players out of their favoured position. I'm more hopeful Honda will be able to stylise his play to become more effective where he is.

[Danny]

I don't know, maybe because I've actually seen Honda play on a constant basis, and I know how good he can be.

As AM, perhaps, not CM.

[Danny]

I must be one of the few here who think he cannot play in the mid three. Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time. And truth be told we can't.

Not since Rino lost his legs, did we have the freedom of playing both Seedorf and Pirlo in the midfield three. If you remember once Rino lost his legs, we immediately put in Ambrosini and pushed Zee up while taking off an additional striker.

I wonder if we're making the mistake of thinking De Jong is a Gattuso type who can do the work of two people in midfield. Because he absolutely isn't.

For me I think Honda in his current position is fine. He 'starts in position' on that right wing, but the system has allowed him a lot of freedom to make runs at will, and run in to the centre. I notice that is very different from Zee who had a very rigid implementation of the 4-2-3-1.

Probably to get his 'best' which is to say to get the best position he has played in from past record, we'd have to go to an X-Mas tree or a Pyramid/Diamond 4-3-1-2.

I don't like that personally, because to play Honda in position we often end up having to play 2 players out of their favoured position. I'm more hopeful Honda will be able to stylise his play to become more effective where he is.

I think it's X Off that's the only one who wants Honda as CM rather than the majority.

[Jack Sparrow]

Well to make a tl;dr I would say that I think it would be easier for Honda to learn to play starting from the right and moving around from there, as opposed to learning how to defend a right flank in our porous midfield.

Besides, it might actually be advantageous that way, since they can't place a CDM to man mark Honda out of a game.

[X-Offender]

Not since Rino lost his legs, did we have the freedom of playing both Seedorf and Pirlo in the midfield three. If you remember once Rino lost his legs, we immediately put in Ambrosini and pushed Zee up while taking off an additional striker.

What? No way did Rino lose his legs by 2006/2007. He was in top form then. And he kept paying great until he was injured in 2008 and then kept out by Leonardo. Rino lost his legs, if we wanna put it that way, by 2010/11, the year of the scudetto.

As AM, perhaps, not CM.

Bonaventura has never played as CM either for that matter, always as AM/LW.

I think it's X Off that's the only one who wants Honda as CM rather than the majority.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

[Jack Sparrow]

Bonaventura has never played as CM either for that matter, always as AM/LW.

Oh? Because I believe he has played as a LM? In the leftmost position of the 4-4-2. Most important thing with Jack Bonaventura is he gives us cover for either of our wingers.

[Danny]

Bonaventura has never played as CM either for that matter, always as AM/LW.

He could possibly adapt to that slot but I'm explicitly NOT advocating him for CM. Only as AM. CM would be MvG, and DM De Jong.

It doesn't strengthen your case for Honda as CM when I didn't propose Bona for that slot either.

[han2503]

I must be one of the few here who think he cannot play in the mid three. Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time. And truth be told we can't.

Not since Rino lost his legs, did we have the freedom of playing both Seedorf and Pirlo in the midfield three. If you remember once Rino lost his legs, we immediately put in Ambrosini and pushed Zee up while taking off an additional striker.

I wonder if we're making the mistake of thinking De Jong is a Gattuso type who can do the work of two people in midfield. Because he absolutely isn't.

For me I think Honda in his current position is fine. He 'starts in position' on that right wing, but the system has allowed him a lot of freedom to make runs at will, and run in to the centre. I notice that is very different from Zee who had a very rigid implementation of the 4-2-3-1.

Probably to get his 'best' which is to say to get the best position he has played in from past record, we'd have to go to an X-Mas tree or a Pyramid/Diamond 4-3-1-2.

I don't like that personally, because to play Honda in position we often end up having to play 2 players out of their favoured position. I'm more hopeful Honda will be able to stylise his play to become more effective where he is.

Simply cannot disagree more Jack!

"Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time." No, that's our coaches, Allegri was the one who didn't like having a pure creator in the midfield, he used f@cking Boateng as a trequartista FFS!! That's how allergic he was to playing a creator in midfield. He ousted Pirlo and mostly relied on Seedorf who I wouldn't call a pure creator like Pirlo or Kaka were under Carlo. He even used 3 DMs at times.

It is actually the complete opposite of that, our midfield is absolutely DESPERATE for a creator, someone who can actually use the ball smartly and not pass it sideways/backwards or lump it forward. This mentality was only introduced by Allegri.

Carlo reverted to using both Ambro and Rino when we sold Sheva and started using the xmas tree. He pushed Seedorf up and played Kaka as a SS behind the poacher (Pippo/Gila). And that's why we started struggling a lot in Serie A because we just couldn't break down opposing teams when they parked the bus.

With Seedorf we're talking a completely different system so he shouldn't factor in the discussion. Pippo is going to be using a 3-man midfield, just like what Carlo did and what Allegri did.

The Rino type of player is extinct these days, and no top team can afford to have someone who's just in there to break down the plays, they want all rounders, players who are great on both sides of the ball. Look at Barca, they have Busquets, every other pure DM they ever had they used in the defence, Real have Khedira, Chelsea have Matic or Ramires, etc, etc.

This obsession we have with DMs is incredibly ridiculous, we have De Jong, who's a pure anchor player, no need for any other player who does the dirty work and makes the simple pass. Ideally our midfield should be De Jong, 1 pure creative CM (Monto, Honda, Jack) and 1 two-way player who's good on both sides of the ball, that obviously MvG for me and Poli his immediate sub with Muntari being able to sub for all 3 when needed.

Any combination that involves De Jong and Muntari or Essien is just over kill, especially for Serie A, when you need your midfield to be fast and fluid to break stubborn teams down

I think it's X Off that's the only one who wants Honda as CM rather than the majority.

Actually I'm all for it.

He's a relatively slow player who is pure shite at dribbling imo. He absolutely shouldn't be used on the wing. Yes in an ideal world he'd be used in the traditional AM/trequartista role, but we're not going to be playing with a system that makes use of that position this season, so imo, if we want to get the best out of him he needs to be in an area where his best attributes can be put on show, and imo, he'd be great at CM. He's capable of tracking back, probably even better than that lazy @ss Muntari. And he'd be in a position where his passing and vision can be of great use to the squad, because I do think he's probably our best passer and creative mind in the side

[Jack Bauer]

http://www.football-italia.net/55777/milan...-torres-trident

Stephan El Shaarawy suffered an ankle problem on international duty with Italy and has still not fully recovered

[han2503]

http://www.football-italia.net/55777/milan...-torres-trident

They said he could be ready for the Norway game... How come they're now saying that he's a doubt for Sunday? I seriously hope this is not going to be a Pato type situation with SES.

[X-Offender]

Oh? Because I believe he has played as a LM? In the leftmost position of the 4-4-2. Most important thing with Jack Bonaventura is he gives us cover for either of our wingers.

Firstly, are you certain that he has played as LM? Because for what I know he's always been used as a pure attacking player at Atalanta. Secondly, even if has played as LM, there's a difference between that role and a CM. Would you have played Nedved as CM? Or Nani? Or Ribery? Two completely different roles, Jack.

He could possibly adapt to that slot but I'm explicitly NOT advocating him for CM. Only as AM. CM would be MvG, and DM De Jong.

It doesn't strengthen your case for Honda as CM when I didn't propose Bona for that slot either.

Then you're proposing a 4-2-3-1 formation, as 4-3-3 advocates for a 3-man midfield with no AM.

And Honda has played as CM at CSKA in the past, so there's that.

Simply cannot disagree more Jack!

"Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time." No, that's our coaches, Allegri was the one who didn't like having a pure creator in the midfield, he used f@cking Boateng as a trequartista FFS!! That's how allergic he was to playing a creator in midfield. He ousted Pirlo and mostly relied on Seedorf who I wouldn't call a pure creator like Pirlo or Kaka were under Carlo. He even used 3 DMs at times.

It is actually the complete opposite of that, our midfield is absolutely DESPERATE for a creator, someone who can actually use the ball smartly and not pass it sideways/backwards or lump it forward. This mentality was only introduced by Allegri.

Carlo reverted to using both Ambro and Rino when we sold Sheva and started using the xmas tree. He pushed Seedorf up and played Kaka as a SS behind the poacher (Pippo/Gila). And that's why we started struggling a lot in Serie A because we just couldn't break down opposing teams when they parked the bus.

With Seedorf we're talking a completely different system so he shouldn't factor in the discussion. Pippo is going to be using a 3-man midfield, just like what Carlo did and what Allegri did.

The Rino type of player is extinct these days, and no top team can afford to have someone who's just in there to break down the plays, they want all rounders, players who are great on both sides of the ball. Look at Barca, they have Busquets, every other pure DM they ever had they used in the defence, Real have Khedira, Chelsea have Matic or Ramires, etc, etc.

This obsession we have with DMs is incredibly ridiculous, we have De Jong, who's a pure anchor player, no need for any other player who does the dirty work and makes the simple pass. Ideally our midfield should be De Jong, 1 pure creative CM (Monto, Honda, Jack) and 1 two-way player who's good on both sides of the ball, that obviously MvG for me and Poli his immediate sub with Muntari being able to sub for all 3 when needed.

Any combination that involves De Jong and Muntari or Essien is just over kill, especially for Serie A, when you need your midfield to be fast and fluid to break stubborn teams down

Actually I'm all for it.

He's a relatively slow player who is pure shite at dribbling imo. He absolutely shouldn't be used on the wing. Yes in an ideal world he'd be used in the traditional AM/trequartista role, but we're not going to be playing with a system that makes use of that position this season, so imo, if we want to get the best out of him he needs to be in an area where his best attributes can be put on show, and imo, he'd be great at CM. He's capable of tracking back, probably even better than that lazy @ss Muntari. And he'd be in a position where his passing and vision can be of great use to the squad, because I do think he's probably our best passer and creative mind in the side

Agreed on everything.

[Danny]

Then you're proposing a 4-2-3-1 formation, as 4-3-3 advocates for a 3-man midfield with no AM.

No I'm not. No it doesn't.

And Honda has played as CM at CSKA in the past, so there's that.

Yeah? Well plenty players get used out of position and we whine. Now you're advocating it. The guy's an AM. I don't buy him as CM at all.

His best slot, as seen at the WC and pre-season is trequartista or one of the flanks with the freedom to cut in. Which is why he doesn't really work to his full potential at Milan.

[Danny]

They said he could be ready for the Norway game... How come they're now saying that he's a doubt for Sunday? I seriously hope this is not going to be a Pato type situation with SES.

It's what I feared. I hope I'm wrong as he's had a very productive start to the new season.

[X-Offender]

No I'm not. No it doesn't.

Care to explain?

Yeah? Well plenty players get used out of position and we whine. Now you're advocating it. The guy's an AM. I don't buy him as CM at all.

His best slot, as seen at the WC and pre-season is trequartista or one of the flanks with the freedom to cut in. Which is why he doesn't really work to his full potential at Milan.

I'm proposing him as CM only because I think he's wasted on the wing. Whether as CM or winger, he's out of position, but at least as CM his abilities are used to a better extent.

[Danny]

Care to explain?

The modern 4-3-3 is the DM/CM/AM as a flat 3 in the middle - the 'Barcelona' model, if you like, with one holding DM, one all-round CM, and one attack-minded AM. With the 3 prong attack up top. That's what Pippo's playing, not your 2-3-1 you seem to be changing my formation to.

I'm proposing him as CM only because I think he's wasted on the wing. Whether as CM or winger, he's out of position, but at least as CM his abilities are used to a better extent.

I agree he's wasted on the wing, and I agree in principle as a CM his abilities might be better deployed but neither is him at remotely full capacity. And there's no point putting a 60-70% Honda in over a 100% van Ginkel, for example, just for the sake of getting 'more' out of Honda.

Why drop a dedicated CM for a trequartisa who is weaker in CM?

And we wouldn't sign Bonaventura for 7M if he wasn't going to start so I don't think his place is up for grabs in Honda's favour.

This post has been edited by Danny: Sep 11 2014, 10:28 PM

[X-Offender]

The modern 4-3-3 is the DM/CM/AM as a flat 3 in the middle - the 'Barcelona' model, if you like, with one holding DM, one all-round CM, and one attack-minded AM. With the 3 prong attack up top. That's what Pippo's playing, not your 2-3-1 you seem to be changing my formation to.

Is it? What team other than Barça have played an AM in a 3-man midfield? And how can you say that's what Pippo is playing when our 3 midfielders have been De Jong, Poli and Muntari up to this point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I agree he's wasted on the wing, and I agree in principle as a CM his abilities might be better deployed but neither is him at remotely full capacity. And there's no point putting a 60-70% Honda in over a 100% van Ginkel, for example, just for the sake of getting 'more' out of Honda.

Why drop a dedicated CM for a trequartisa who is weaker in CM?

And we wouldn't sign Bonaventura for 7M if he wasn't going to start so I don't think his place is up for grabs in Honda's favour.

The idea here is that if Bonaventura can play as CM, so can Honda. And between the two, I'd choose Honda.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Sep 11 2014, 10:44 PM

[Danny]

Is it? What team other than Barça have played an AM in a 3-man midfield? And how can you say that's what Pippo is playing when our 3 midfielders have been De Jong, Poli and Muntari up to this point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Because we didn't have the archetypal model to play the Barca midfield - that's WHY we brought in MvG & Bona. But to be pedantic De Jong was playing DM, Poli the CM and Muntari the AM. It wasn't the most ideal solution but it did seem to work.

And other teams using 4-3-3 with an AM? Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool does, with Allen or Henderson taking turns to be the Xavi or the Iniesta. Jose's Lampard Chelsea did too, Lampard being the AM.

The idea here is that if Bonaventura can play as CM, so can Honda. And between the two, I'd choose Honda.

My idea is he's the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice.

[X-Offender]

Because we didn't have the archetypal model to play the Barca midfield - that's WHY we brought in MvG & Bona. But to be pedantic De Jong was playing DM, Poli the CM and Muntari the AM. It wasn't the most ideal solution but it did seem to work.

And other teams using 4-3-3 with an AM? Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool does, with Allen or Henderson taking turns to be the Xavi or the Iniesta. Jose's Lampard Chelsea did too, Lampard being the AM.

How can Muntari ever be considered an AM???

Lampard has always been a CM rather than an AM. The same can be said about Allen. They aren't perfect attacking players, which what a typical AM or trequartista is about. Rui Costa, Kaká, Totti, Boban, Savicevic, these are players deemed as AM that cannot be imagined in a 3-man midfield.

Maybe you and I just have different definitions of what an AM is, but when I think of a 3-man midfield, I think of an anchor and two CMs, one being creative and one being more of a box-to-box type of player. In the context of our team, I consider Poli and MvG to be the latter, and Honda to be the former. Bonaventura, not so much. He strikes me more of the above mentioned category of Rui Costa and the others.

My idea is he's the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice.

Wait, what? If Honda is the AM, and MvG is the CM, how can it be a choice between those two? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Danny]

How can Muntari ever be considered an AM???

Because he's explosive. He's got no creativity but he is extremely powerful in the final third, however much you dislike him. He also gets back as well, which helps the team, but the guy scores goals and he poses a threat. This is why I say him being AM is a bit crude and is why we've dipped into the market to buy a proper AM.

Lampard has always been a CM rather than an AM. The same can be said about Allen. They aren't perfect attacking players, which what a typical AM or trequartista is about. Rui Costa, Kaká, Totti, Boban, Savicevic, these are players deemed as AM that cannot be imagined in a 3-man midfield.

For a CM it's a hell of an achievement that Lampard is Chelsea's all-time top goalscorer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd also argue Totti is not a trequartista but a second striker. Maybe nowadays that he is slower he sits deeper in front of the midfield but when he was younger he was definitely a striker/supporting striker.

Maybe you and I just have different definitions of what an AM is, but when I think of a 3-man midfield, I think of an anchor and two CMs, one being creative and one being more of a box-to-box type of player. In the context of our team, I consider Poli and MvG to be the latter, and Honda to be the former. Bonaventura, not so much. He strikes me more of the above mentioned category of Rui Costa and the others.

I think we do disagree on what an AM is. For me, it's the DM/CM/AM combination:

DM: Your dirty destroyer. Breaks up play and supports defence. De Jong.

CM: Contributes to this but supplies the flanks and uses vision to make the right pass forward and backward. van Ginkel. Also contributes to:

AM: Completely forward thinking - bursts forward, provides support to the CM but focuses mainly on supplying the wings and being an auxiliary forward when an attack is underway. Also responsible for the 'killer pass'. Bonaventura.

Wait, what? If Honda is the AM, and MvG is the CM, how can it be a choice between those two? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

It isn't, it's a choice between Honda or Bona as AM. In my 3 De Jong and MvG are DM and CM respectively. The area we're arguably contending is AM. And Bona gets my vote.

[han2503]

My idea is he's the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice.

I was following the convo and I was like "Huh" at this part.

We have 3 spots in midfield, one of those is locked down by De Jong, that's the centre position.

Now, we have 2 other spots, and they should be assigned as follows; one to a pure creator (that's either Honda or Bonaventura) and one to a midfield all-rounder (that's either MvG or Poli)

Monto can play either position when he returns

But the point is that what you're saying doesn't make sense because you're saying that it's a toss up between MvG and Honda for that all-rounder position, when it simply cannot be the case because we can't even have both Jack and Honda on the pitch at the same time.

[han2503]

For a CM it's a hell of an achievement that Lampard is Chelsea's all-time top goalscorer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd also argue Totti is not a trequartista but a second striker. Maybe nowadays that he is slower he sits deeper in front of the midfield but when he was younger he was definitely a striker/supporting striker.

Lampard is definitely a box-to-box CM for me. He was just brilliant at bursting into the box and scoring or shooting from range which is why he has those crazy numbers for a midfielder imo

And Totti has been used as CF/SS now, in the twilight of his career, at his peek he was a pure No. 10. I remember there was this huge issue about him and Del Piero when it came to the Azzurri, when there never really should have been. Totti is a pure creator, he's the definition of a trequartista imo. Del Piero is an SS.

AM: Completely forward thinking - bursts forward, provides support to the CM but focuses mainly on supplying the wings and being an auxiliary forward when an attack is underway. Also responsible for the 'killer pass'. Bonaventura.

I don't think you can call that position the "AM" position, you're describing the role of a CM who has the characteristics of a box-to-box player, hence Lampard

[han2503]

Probable line-up according to most sources (Milan Channel included)

Lopez
Abate--Alex--Bonera--De Sciglio
Poli--De Jong--Muntari
Honda--Torres--Menez

I really do not want to whine and question Pippo as of yet.

But Bonera??? Muntari????

Bonera along with an equally slow Alex in the centre of defence is just asking for it imo. I seriously wonder why most coaches are so obsessed with him, that is until he completely lets them down and has a nightmarish performance, both Allegri and Seedorf had to go through this (Allegri twice over). Now Pippo is doing the same thing. I wonder when the calamity show will ensue... Hopefully not against Juve

And Muntari! Again! We have many options in midfield now, please Pippo! Do not make us suffer in watching this lazy idiot start anymore games for us unless it's a dire injury emergency he should be kept on the bench

[Danny]

I was following the convo and I was like "Huh" at this part.

Then you're in slow mode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

We have 3 spots in midfield, one of those is locked down by De Jong, that's the centre position.

Now, we have 2 other spots, and they should be assigned as follows; one to a pure creator (that's either Honda or Bonaventura) and one to a midfield all-rounder (that's either MvG or Poli)

Monto can play either position when he returns

But the point is that what you're saying doesn't make sense because you're saying that it's a toss up between MvG and Honda for that all-rounder position, when it simply cannot be the case because we can't even have both Jack and Honda on the pitch at the same time.

No, FFS!

I'm not saying it's a toss up between anyone, X-Off is. I'm just pointing out I'd have those 3 in midfield while X would have Honda there.

In fact if neither of you gets my point by now I'll just bow out this debate and lie in a dark room.

[Danny]

Probable line-up according to most sources (Milan Channel included)

Lopez
Abate--Alex--Bonera--De Sciglio
Poli--De Jong--Muntari
Honda--Torres--Menez

I really do not want to whine and question Pippo as of yet.

But Bonera??? Muntari????

Bonera along with an equally slow Alex in the centre of defence is just asking for it imo. I seriously wonder why most coaches are so obsessed with him, that is until he completely lets them down and has a nightmarish performance, both Allegri and Seedorf had to go through this (Allegri twice over). Now Pippo is doing the same thing. I wonder when the calamity show will ensue... Hopefully not against Juve

And Muntari! Again! We have many options in midfield now, please Pippo! Do not make us suffer in watching this lazy idiot start anymore games for us unless it's a dire injury emergency he should be kept on the bench

Think it might be you who needs to lie down (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

About 1 of every 100 predicted lineups actually happens.

[X-Offender]

Because he's explosive. He's got no creativity but he is extremely powerful in the final third, however much you dislike him. He also gets back as well, which helps the team, but the guy scores goals and he poses a threat. This is why I say him being AM is a bit crude and is why we've dipped into the market to buy a proper AM.

I don't think Pippo ever intended on playing Muntari as AM. In Pippo's 3-man midfield, up until now, there hasn't been an AM. Just an anchor and two muscle players. Not every 3-man midfield is built in your vision, Danny. Allegri used to play Ambro, Gattuso and Flamini together!

For a CM it's a hell of an achievement that Lampard is Chelsea's all-time top goalscorer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd also argue Totti is not a trequartista but a second striker. Maybe nowadays that he is slower he sits deeper in front of the midfield but when he was younger he was definitely a striker/supporting striker.

I think we do disagree on what an AM is. For me, it's the DM/CM/AM combination:

DM: Your dirty destroyer. Breaks up play and supports defence. De Jong.

CM: Contributes to this but supplies the flanks and uses vision to make the right pass forward and backward. van Ginkel. Also contributes to:

AM: Completely forward thinking - bursts forward, provides support to the CM but focuses mainly on supplying the wings and being an auxiliary forward when an attack is underway. Also responsible for the 'killer pass'. Bonaventura.

Yeah, I just don't see it that way. For me a 3-man midfield will always encompass a DM and two CMs. One of the CMs might be a creator or offensive-minded, but not an AM. I have another definition for that role.

And as Han said, Totti was a typical trequartista back in the day. If anything, it's now that he's being played as a striker.

It isn't, it's a choice between Honda or Bona as AM. In my 3 De Jong and MvG are DM and CM respectively. The area we're arguably contending is AM. And Bona gets my vote.

OK, I perfectly get that, but what you said earlier doesn't support that view. You said "Honda is the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice". How can it be a choice between Honda and MvG when they have different roles in your view? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[X-Offender]

Probable line-up according to most sources (Milan Channel included)

Lopez
Abate--Alex--Bonera--De Sciglio
Poli--De Jong--Muntari
Honda--Torres--Menez

I really do not want to whine and question Pippo as of yet.

But Bonera??? Muntari????

Bonera along with an equally slow Alex in the centre of defence is just asking for it imo. I seriously wonder why most coaches are so obsessed with him, that is until he completely lets them down and has a nightmarish performance, both Allegri and Seedorf had to go through this (Allegri twice over). Now Pippo is doing the same thing. I wonder when the calamity show will ensue... Hopefully not against Juve

And Muntari! Again! We have many options in midfield now, please Pippo! Do not make us suffer in watching this lazy idiot start anymore games for us unless it's a dire injury emergency he should be kept on the bench

Mediaset has Zapata over Bonera. Remember most line-ups before the Lazio game had Bonera starting too, but then Zapata played.

[han2503]

Mediaset has Zapata over Bonera. Remember most line-ups before the Lazio game had Bonera starting too, but then Zapata played.

Bonera started against Lazio as well.

I think Bonera will start on Sunday, Pippo seems to rely on him as a leader in the team

[Danny]

I don't think Pippo ever intended on playing Muntari as AM. In Pippo's 3-man midfield, up until now, there hasn't been an AM. Just an anchor and two muscle players. Not every 3-man midfield is built in your vision, Danny. Allegri used to play Ambro, Gattuso and Flamini together!

X-Off in 'using Allegri to support his argument' shocker (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yeah, I just don't see it that way. For me a 3-man midfield will always encompass a DM and two CMs. One of the CMs might be a creator or offensive-minded, but not an AM. I have another definition for that role.

And as Han said, Totti was a typical trequartista back in the day. If anything, it's now that he's being played as a striker.

I disagree.

OK, I perfectly get that, but what you said earlier doesn't support that view. You said "Honda is the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice". How can it be a choice between Honda and MvG when they have different roles in your view? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

It isn't, that's what I've been saying the past 3 or 4 posts.

I said that in rebut to your contention that Honda had to play as CM. I am NOT proposing him as CM, but YOU are, and then applying it to MY 3 man midfield he's contending with MvG, and not Bona.

Let's put this in plain English - what is your choice for 3 man mid. Mine is NDJ, MvG & Bona. DM, CM, AM. What's yours?

[X-Offender]

It isn't, that's what I've been saying the past 3 or 4 posts.

I said that in rebut to your contention that Honda had to play as CM. I am NOT proposing him as CM, but YOU are, and then applying it to MY 3 man midfield he's contending with MvG, and not Bona.

Let's put this in plain English - what is your choice for 3 man mid. Mine is NDJ, MvG & Bona. DM, CM, AM. What's yours?

De Jong, Poli/MvG and Honda.

And when I said I'd play Honda as CM, I obviously meant as AM in your view of things, cos like I said, in a 4-3-3 there's no AM/trequartista for me.

[Danny]

Fair dues, we agree on NDJ/MvG at least. I'd choose the last one as Bona while you want Honda.

This all seems to have cleared itself up nicely!

[William405]

Well, that wasn't a very fruitful discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[han2503]

I'm hoping Pippo plays at least one of Van Ginkel or Jack on Sunday, really excited to see how both of them fit into the squad and what they bring to it

[Jack Sparrow]

Expect MvG to come on for one of the midfield three and Jack B to come on for one of the wingers. With El Sharaawy out, this is exactly what we got him for.

[X-Offender]

Expect MvG to come on for one of the midfield three and Jack B to come on for one of the wingers. With El Sharaawy out, this is exactly what we got him for.

+1

[Danny]

I'm clearly missing something here. Jack?

[Jack Bauer]

Giacomo "Jack" Bonaventura.

[han2503]

I'm clearly missing something here. Jack?

It's Giacomo in English. Much less of a mouthful than Bonaventura.

Although we might have some issues with all the Jacks we'll be referencing now

[Danny]

I just call him Bona (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jack Bauer]

Pippo:

"El Shaarawy is out with an injury. He is very important for us, but we will try to replace him in the best possible way. I was hoping that El Shaarawy would recover, so that he at least could sit on the bench vs. Parma, but he won't be called up."

"Alex will play from the start against Parma tomorrow. I still haven't decided who the other central defender will be."

"Rami is a very good defender. I have no problems with him. I'm counting a lot on him."

"Torres? We will see if he plays from the start tomorrow. I will decide it after today's training session."

"Bonaventura and Torres are both in great shape. One of them will play from the start and the other will be on the bench tomorrow."

"Pazzini? I hold him in high regard. He will be important for us. I will try to use the whole squad in this season."

"Van Ginkel will be on the bench tomorrow. He still has to settle in, but he can play in all the 3 roles in midfield."

"Bonaventura in midfield? Not tomorrow. But he could play there during the season. We also have Saponara for that role."

"Honda has recovered from the long trip from Japan to Italy, so I think that he will play from the start tomorrow. Honda is an exemplary player. He always arrives on time for training, and I think that he also works out at home."

[Danny]

Going by all that tomorrow's team is:

--------------Lopez

Abate-----Alex---Zapata----Bonera

Poli------De Jong-------Muntari

Menez------Pazzo/Torres-----Honda

No Bona or MvG. Can't express how disappointing that midfield selection is. Or how bewildering Bonera at LB again is. Yes, that's my conjecture but I have a feeling.

PS @ X Off - Pippo talking about the 'three roles in midfield' is kinda what I've been getting at.

PPS: Could all be mind games and he's going to select all the new players.

[han2503]

Going by all that tomorrow's team is:

--------------Lopez

Abate-----Alex---Zapata----Bonera

Poli------De Jong-------Muntari

Menez------Pazzo/Torres-----Honda

No Bona or MvG. Can't express how disappointing that midfield selection is. Or how bewildering Bonera at LB again is. Yes, that's my conjecture but I have a feeling.

PS @ X Off - Pippo talking about the 'three roles in midfield' is kinda what I've been getting at.

PPS: Could all be mind games and he's going to select all the new players.

Yes there are 3 roles but I don't get the AM bit you were referencing tbh. The only teams that actually do/did that were Real and Barca (Di Maria/Iniesta), every other side that uses a 3 man midfield usually has a creator, a box-to-box guy and a DM. For me personally those are the 3 roles. Honda or Jack would be the creators

[Danny]

Er, creator = treq = Bona
B2B = CM = MvG
DM = De Jong

I honestly don't understand the issue you two have grasping this!

[X-Offender]

Er, creator = treq = Bona
B2B = CM = MvG
DM = De Jong

I honestly don't understand the issue you two have grasping this!

There's no issue, I grasp it perfectly, I just think the terminology you use is inappropriate. Had you said creator instead of AM I would have been more than fine with.

[han2503]

Er, creator = treq = Bona
B2B = CM = MvG
DM = De Jong

I honestly don't understand the issue you two have grasping this!

A creator is not necessarily a trequartista. imo it's even more inappropriate to call him a treq because the word is derived from the position on the pitch as far as I know

A creator can be a pure CM, Pirlo, Modric, Xavi, Cesc, Alonso, etc are all CMs who create

[X-Offender]

A creator is not necessarily a trequartista. imo it's even more inappropriate to call him a treq because the word is derived from the position on the pitch as far as I know

A creator can be a pure CM, Pirlo, Modric, Xavi, Cesc, Alonso, etc are all CMs who create

Precisely.

[Danny]

A creator is not necessarily a trequartista. imo it's even more inappropriate to call him a treq because the word is derived from the position on the pitch as far as I know

A creator can be a pure CM, Pirlo, Modric, Xavi, Cesc, Alonso, etc are all CMs who create

Even De Jong creates and he's a flipping DM.

The point is with the three you have the different positions, DM, CM, AM. But the dynamics of a three sees all 3 of them able to cover for EVERY ONE OF THE OTHERS when need be.

Primarily Honda/Bona is an AM but he can defend on occasion, like a DM, or feed players ahead of him, like a CM.

Primarily De Jong is a DM but he can get the passes out like a CM or score a belter of a headed goal V Inter, like an AM.

Primarily Poli is a CM but he can defend AND attack as well as work in the middle.

And that is my last f*ckin' post on this drivel. Had enough!

[han2503]

Even De Jong creates and he's a flipping DM.

The point is with the three you have the different positions, DM, CM, AM. But the dynamics of a three sees all 3 of them able to cover for EVERY ONE OF THE OTHERS when need be.

Primarily Honda/Bona is an AM but he can defend on occasion, like a DM, or feed players ahead of him, like a CM.

Primarily De Jong is a DM but he can get the passes out like a CM or score a belter of a headed goal V Inter, like an AM.

Primarily Poli is a CM but he can defend AND attack as well as work in the middle.

And that is my last f*ckin' post on this drivel. Had enough!

We're all going to talk in circles because we're arguing about completely different things imo, so we're never going to have a consensus

One last final point, I agree with everything you said above about the players' roles and contributions.

But for me, in a midfield 3 you have a CM, DM, CM. Honda or Bonaventura would have to play the role of a CM if they were to play in the 3. That's my main point because for me, there's no AM in the midfield 3 of a 4-3-3 formation. An AM for me only exists in a 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1/4-2-3-1, all of which he's playing behind the striker/s

[Danny]

I agree with everything you said

Just reply to me with this from now on old friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jack Bauer]

Danny, Bonera almost certainly won't play as LB while DS is available. If he plays tomorrow (hope he won't ), it will be as CB.

This post has been edited by Jack Bauer: Sep 13 2014, 09:15 PM

[X-Offender]

Bonaventura might play instead of Torres tomorrow, Mediaset reports.

Jack-Menez-Honda? Not enough striker potential in there. Since SES is injured, Torres has to play.

Also, I really hope Zapata or Rami play instead of frigging Bonera. This guy must have a special charm or something for coaches to select him so often...