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X-Offender
post Mar 4 2015, 11:26 AM
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Gazzetta on the front page today:

- Many players will be leaving at the end of the season. Only Bonera, Abbiati and Abate's contracts will be renewed;
- Bocchetti and Destro will be signed permanently, although the fate of the latter will also depend on his performances;
- Baselli should be the first new signing;
- Defense and midfield will undergo a complete overhaul: in defense, only Lopez, Paletta, Antonelli and De Sciglio will be confirmed; in midfield, Montolivo, Honda, Poli and Bonaventura; in attack Menez, Cerci and Destro;
- Alex ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) ), Rami, Zapata and El Shaarawy will be be sold;
- The various Nocerino, Niang, Matri, Saponara and Gabriel will have to be placed somewhere;
- Inzaghi will be let go. Montella, Spalletti and Klopp as the possible substitutes.

Link

It's funny how we're keeping Bonera, Bocchetti and Paletta, arguably our worst CBs, and getting rid of Mexes, Alex, Rami and Zapata, who are better players overall. Huh...
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 4 2015, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 4 2015, 01:26 PM) *
It's funny how we're keeping Bonera, Bocchetti and Paletta, arguably our worst CBs, and getting rid of Mexes, Alex, Rami and Zapata, who are better players overall. Huh...

Hmh, no I don't see it that way. Bonera is an old routine who surely won't cost much and can cover all areas, sometimes with horrible mistakes, sometimes good. Paletta and Bocchetti probably cost us less then the others, so they're more then suitable to be subs and backups. This is what I've been talking all along. Mexes is finished any which way you look, Alex, Rami and Zapata have pretty much all the same problem, especially Zapata and Rami: they're too good to be backups but they cannot be defense leaders and don't suit our ambitions. Classic Valencia and Udinese level players. As soon as they sing for such teams, they'll flourish again. Alex? Not sure. Maybe his time is over, don't see any viable reason to prefer Bocchetti or Paletta over him? How is his salary?
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X-Offender
post Mar 4 2015, 12:08 PM
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By that logic, we're only keeping Bonera, Paletta and Bocchetti as subs, and getting rid of the others to sign two quality CBs. Because otherwise it makes no sense.
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 4 2015, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 4 2015, 02:08 PM) *
By that logic, we're only keeping Bonera, Paletta and Bocchetti as subs, and getting rid of the others to sign two quality CBs. Because otherwise it makes no sense.

Yes. This would be logical. Get rid of quantity (Alex, Mexes, Rami, Zapata), get more quality. And in the end we have 5 CBs (two of which can play a fullback) - the ideal number.
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X-Offender
post Mar 4 2015, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 4 2015, 02:03 PM) *
Yes. This would be logical. Get rid of quantity (Alex, Mexes, Rami, Zapata), get more quality. And in the end we have 5 CBs (two of which can play a fullback) - the ideal number.


Sounds good, if it happens.
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han2503
post Mar 4 2015, 08:12 PM
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By that logic, I'd rather keep Zapata and Rami as the backups instead of the horribly bad Bocchetti and the underwhelming Paletta. Add to that giving Bonera another needless extension.

He can play all areas? No, he's terrible at LB and an absolute nightmare in the centre. The only position he can pull off decent performances in is at RB. This guy is simply finished

Mexes and Alex imo are both good players, better than any of the others. But if them leaving means someone really good actually comes in, I'm all for it. I just don't see that happening. If we're letting both go just to sign players of Paletta level, than I'd rather just keep one of them
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 4 2015, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 4 2015, 10:12 PM) *
By that logic, I'd rather keep Zapata and Rami as the backups instead of the horribly bad Bocchetti and the underwhelming Paletta. Add to that giving Bonera another needless extension.

He can play all areas? No, he's terrible at LB and an absolute nightmare in the centre. The only position he can pull off decent performances in is at RB. This guy is simply finished

Mexes and Alex imo are both good players, better than any of the others. But if them leaving means someone really good actually comes in, I'm all for it. I just don't see that happening. If we're letting both go just to sign players of Paletta level, than I'd rather just keep one of them

Well, Bocchetti and Paletta have been recently signed and should be given a chance. I'm not sure how much they earn, but my guess is below Rami and somewhere around Zapata (1,6M).

I'd keep Alex. Mexes is our biggest earner, and for that (along with Montolivo) he hasn't shown much. He may be our best defender, but that only speaks of our defense.

Bonera? It's practical to have him around. I think he's a overall bad player, but I get why we still want to keep him. For a 4th choice LB and a 2/3rd choice RB and a 3/4th choice CB he's more then good and cheap.
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han2503
post Mar 5 2015, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 4 2015, 09:31 PM) *
Well, Bocchetti and Paletta have been recently signed and should be given a chance. I'm not sure how much they earn, but my guess is below Rami and somewhere around Zapata (1,6M).

I'd keep Alex. Mexes is our biggest earner, and for that (along with Montolivo) he hasn't shown much. He may be our best defender, but that only speaks of our defense.

Bonera? It's practical to have him around. I think he's a overall bad player, but I get why we still want to keep him. For a 4th choice LB and a 2/3rd choice RB and a 3/4th choice CB he's more then good and cheap.

I think we've probably seen enough to assess that both simply don't cut it. I didn't know Bocchetti before but after seeing him with us, I can't see what value he'd bring, even as a backup and at a lower wage, btw, 1.6m for someone of their level is sill too much imo. Paletta I knew before hand that he wasn't good enough after seeing him with Italy. What drove us to actually buy him is beyond me. Btw, Bocchetti is on loan last I heard, so we can still get rid of him without much hassle, if we do offer him a permanent contract, expect a saga along the lines of Mesbah, Constant and Traore the summer after this one when we're trying to offload him but he doesn't want to leave and clubs don't want him because of his big wage

Mexes' contract is about to expire, so the wage issue isn't one at all. If we decide to renew it would certainly be for something much smaller, less than half of what he's currently earning.

No, I simply do not agree about Bonera, what point is there of keeping him? He's no better than Zaccardo. He's not even good captain material as someone who's a stable force in the dressing room. Yes he is our most senior outfield player, but that alone is a ridiculous reason to give him an extension
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X-Offender
post Mar 5 2015, 11:43 AM
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I know people will disagree, but if it were up to me I would renew Mexes' contract and make him and Rami our starting CB pairing. They work well together, have shown it under both Seedorf and Inzaghi. I would focus all our financial resources into signing two quality midfielders: one to replace De Jong (even though if we were to hire a new capable coach, like Montella or Klopp, perhaps they might manage to change his mind?) and a playmaker (Witsel, Gundogan etc.). I feel confident that with these signings and an experienced coach we could easily fight for the 3rd spot.

Lopez
Abate - Rami - Mexes - De Sciglio
Witsel - De Jong(?) - Bona
Cerci - Destro - Menez
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 5 2015, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 5 2015, 01:19 PM) *
I think we've probably seen enough to assess that both simply don't cut it. I didn't know Bocchetti before but after seeing him with us, I can't see what value he'd bring, even as a backup and at a lower wage, btw, 1.6m for someone of their level is sill too much imo. Paletta I knew before hand that he wasn't good enough after seeing him with Italy. What drove us to actually buy him is beyond me. Btw, Bocchetti is on loan last I heard, so we can still get rid of him without much hassle, if we do offer him a permanent contract, expect a saga along the lines of Mesbah, Constant and Traore the summer after this one when we're trying to offload him but he doesn't want to leave and clubs don't want him because of his big wage

So one match made you decide on Paletta? Again, I don't think it's enough. And once more, if Paletta stays, acceptable would be to keep him as a backup.

But I think you're pretty much biased to your own forgone conclusions. For example, some players get to be marked as "good" and you say they should be doing much much better but it's the toxic Milan environment that makes them look out of shape and bad. But then you don't cut some slack for the new signings, but you still advocate Cerci, who's been so far our worst signing (which is the opposite of his potential).

So let's be honest and put the "toxic environment" argument for one second aside. What has Paletta so far done so bad with us that Zapata or Rami haven't already done? In fact, why do you think both Rami and Zapata are better then Paletta? Because, from my perspective it's like this: I've seen much more of Zapata and Rami over these years. My assessment is that they're useless, too good to be backups, to bad to be starters. They're very prone to mistakes and suitable candidates for a midtable club. Now, maybe Paletta will fit right into this description, but why is it that you already made up your mind on Paletta but still somehow rate Zapata and Rami who pretty much have a terrible season (especially Rami)?

QUOTE
Mexes' contract is about to expire, so the wage issue isn't one at all. If we decide to renew it would certainly be for something much smaller, less than half of what he's currently earning.

I think you're the only person around Milan who try to ignore the elephant in the room. Firstly, you make this sound like it's a piece of cake, like Mexes would agree on a lower wage in a blink of an eye, whereas potentially lucrative offers from the various US-teams, Monaco or PSG or who knows which team wouldn't count.

Secondly, you disregard his behavior. I think he's a "rotten apple" and it's better to part ways with him. He may be our best defender, but the guy isn't getting any younger while mentally he's still a rookie hothead. He's impulsive and unpredictable, and coaches seem to try to avoid him, which makes me question his influence on the team overall. I think everyone knows that...

QUOTE
No, I simply do not agree about Bonera, what point is there of keeping him? He's no better than Zaccardo. He's not even good captain material as someone who's a stable force in the dressing room. Yes he is our most senior outfield player, but that alone is a ridiculous reason to give him an extension

Well, in fact, IMO he is better then Zaccardo and always was. But as I said, for me it makes sense to have 1 such player who covers all the areas needed to be covered in a dire situation. Such situations usually happen 2-3 times in a season. And I'm positive Bonera could make a solid outing against the various Chievo's and Bologna's. He's better then all the other potential 3rd choices we have or could have (Zaccardo, Albertazzi...).

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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 5 2015, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 5 2015, 01:43 PM) *
I know people will disagree, but if it were up to me I would renew Mexes' contract and make him and Rami our starting CB pairing. They work well together, have shown it under both Seedorf and Inzaghi. I would focus all our financial resources into signing two quality midfielders: one to replace De Jong (even though if we were to hire a new capable coach, like Montella or Klopp, perhaps they might manage to change his mind?) and a playmaker (Witsel, Gundogan etc.). I feel confident that with these signings and an experienced coach we could easily fight for the 3rd spot.

Lopez
Abate - Rami - Mexes - De Sciglio
Witsel - De Jong(?) - Bona
Cerci - Destro - Menez

I don't know man. We haven many problems.

Firstly, I think Rami is by no means starter material. Mexes or no Mexes, he's a very average and mistake-prone player. So, I think we do need at least one very good defender. I'd release Mexes and spare his wage bill, sell Zapata and Rami (potentially even someone else in defense) and get one really good defender for the money.

In midfield we agree, but I think there's no way de Jong will be staying. It seems to me Milan and NDJ made up their minds. So yes, we need a quality destroyer/tactical player and a creator. Gundogan is a bit overrated IMO and would hardly join Milan, maybe only if Klopp would really come (which seems far fetched to me).

Now I do think we have a problem in attack. Your XI projection has Cerci and Destro, but may I remind you that they're on loan and it's really questionable if the two will stay? If they go, we have a problem in that department as well.
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X-Offender
post Mar 5 2015, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 5 2015, 12:03 PM) *
I don't know man. We haven many problems.

Firstly, I think Rami is by no means starter material. Mexes or no Mexes, he's a very average and mistake-prone player. So, I think we do need at least one very good defender. I'd release Mexes and spare his wage bill, sell Zapata and Rami (potentially even someone else in defense) and get one really good defender for the money.


I would be perfectly fine with your solution. I just went along with the Mexes and Rami one because it's simpler and I truly think our main problems lie in midfield, which needs the utmost attention this summer.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 5 2015, 12:03 PM) *
Now I do think we have a problem in attack. Your XI projection has Cerci and Destro, but may I remind you that they're on loan and it's really questionable if the two will stay? If they go, we have a problem in that department as well.


Isn't Cerci staying for another year with Torres in Madrid? Wasn't that the deal? As for Destro, yeah, we have to fork €16 million for him, part of which we should make up by reducing the roster to 23-24 players.

Investments are needed this summer, absolutely. This time around we'll really see what the ambitions of this so-called management will be. Another summer of loans, rejects and free agents and we can kiss goodbye to our hopes. Here's to wishing a new buyer takes over...
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 5 2015, 12:22 PM
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A new buyer. That's probably the only solution....

And by the way, I think €16 million for Destro is too much. I don't value him that high, but let's give him a proper chance.
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Danny
post Mar 5 2015, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 5 2015, 10:19 AM) *
I think we've probably seen enough to assess that both simply don't cut it.


Funny, barely 3 appearances for either and they don't cut it, when you dismissed the Alex & Mexes partnership failure based on one appearance.

Why is it few appearances is relevant for certain players, but not enough to judge for others?
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Danny
post Mar 5 2015, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 5 2015, 10:43 AM) *
I know people will disagree,


Count me as one of them. I don't want Mexes in our shirt ever again. That goes for Montoc*ntio too.
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