Refuse was the wrong choice of word, they don't sing it because of their background, not out of hotheadedness or for political reasons. yes I too have seen players who don't sing their national anthem (very seldom, though) but these are not the same thing.

This discussion started after Fillipo said Tasci isn't a Turkish player but German. if by that he meant the country Tasci represents, yes, it's Germany. other than that, that's something I'll never accept no matter how long we argue over it. as I said, one can't change their identity. in the end the most politically correct way to call these players would be German-Turkish. Italian-American. Algerian-French, etc. because they belong to both in some ways.

This post has been edited by Zed.D: Jul 16 2012, 03:35 PM

That obviously is most fair, and respresent everyone's feelings about this subject. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think we've gone unnecassarily off topic here. Who cares about the German NT, they'll never beat Italy anyway so lets move on!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Give us an update blue!

It was an interesting discussion. And seeing how it seems like Zed's main issue was being Fillipo denying Tasci being a Turkish player, I actually tend to agree to an extend with him, while I do believe if anything his identity is a mix of both Turkisch and German. Though I would call him a German player since he chose for Germany, but that doesn't mean he is just that I guess.

Which made me think about a discussion I saw the other day on tv (a nice while back). Some Dutch football experts, on a football talk show, talked about this player playing for a country and he didn't celebrate when he scored against the country of his parent(s). They talked about how this was a discrage, while he picked for this country so he must act like it. Obviously the ones who said that were 100% Dutch (as in so are their parents), so I'd say they are ignorant! They don't know how it is to have parent(s) from a different country than yours. The player obviously didn't want to disrespect his family, so he didn't cheer. What's the problem with that? Afterall, he did his best for his national team, hell, he scored.

Maybe this has not much to do with the discussion (but I was so upset about it so love to rant about it), except for I guess it does show someone like that could have feelings for both countries. So I guess his identity is a mix of both, and it's good that one can choose himself to play for which one.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Jul 16 2012, 04:12 PM

It's a sensitive issue on these forums as this debate has been exhausted beyond reason. I tend to agree with zeddie a bit, but kept my mouth shut about it as it's not worth the arguments. At least kurt's not here because then things would seriously heat up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

If you want to continue it at least take it to the national football thread, I'm not trying to stop a discussion or anything like that, but to have it in this particular thread which already tends to get over crowded doesn't seem like such a great idea.

Oh, I already was done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So.... who are we going to sign? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Roberto Carlos from Anzhi. We are gonna pay him 10 million a year. Saving 2 million from Ibra's wage and we plug in the hole at LB.

I intended to end this debate, but just one reminder. I most certainly did not deny Tasci being a Turkish player, I rather implied that he's more a "German" player and also used "" to make it more clear. But anyway...


I agree with you here, which brings me to a related, yet different, matter. I noted for the last couple of seasons a real boom of examples where players refuse to celebrate against a club they played for in their past. I certainly understood players who for example played for years at Milan or Madrid or Köln, then changed their team and refused to celebrate after they scored in a direct clash. I'd be a bit hurt to see Kaka or Sheva celebrate like crazy after scoring against us. But the matter has gone too far. I recent years you can name players who don't celebrate goals against their youth teams, teams they've played for a few months or long in their past. It's not just a personal decision, it's becoming more and more a usus or unwritten rule, a "political" gesture someone is expected to make. I find it annoying.

That's what I originally thought you meant. And also with that I agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Your wish is my command, so sit down grab some popcorn and roominate while I illuminate the possibilities.

(IMG:http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/515/57308914.png)

I believe important players will arrive this summer. Whenever there is silence like this coupled by an exodus



Well, the owner for one is QIA, that changes everything doesn't it?

News:


-We have sent Rodrigo Ely on loan to Reggina.



-Official: Young player Innocenti has been sold pro veralai



-Uefa has scheduled a meeting with PSG regarding their recent transfer market activity.



-We are linked with Xabi Alonso




-Preziosi (genoa): "If I manage to buy out Destro from Siena, then he will join Roma. I already have an agreement with Roma."



-PSG have concluded deals for Ibra and Veratti. Tomorrow should be the official.

leonardo: "Tomorrow will be an important day for PSG"




-Chelsea are close to signing Brazillian playmaker Oscar. 28m euros




-Apparantly reports suggest that Santos may just want a straight swap between Rafael and Robinho. They don't value him over 10m. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)



-We could potentially pull out of the Dzeko/Tevez race as City might demand too much for them (25m+). Damaio is no longer an option as hes worth 30+.

We may pull out of the Rolando deal as other clubs have joined the race for him and his price tag is just too high for us (15m+)


Robinho to santos seems like the only deal that is possible but we haven't contacted Santos yet, only Rafael's agent.


-You can cross Ogbonna out as Torino won't sell him this year as they wish to try and stay in Serie A.


-No news on Kaka yet, we should find out in a couple days.









cds/mn/sky/fi

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jul 16 2012, 09:42 PM

Nice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

@R7


Milan finances in the last couple years, lets see.


Overall profit/loss:


2006 +11.9 million
2007 -31.7 million
2008 -66.8 million
2009 -9.8 million
2010 -69.8 million
2011 -67.3 million

Wages budget:


2006 - 137.8 million
2007 - 166.1 million
2008 - 176.5 million
2009 - 178.8 million
2010 - 192.8 million
2011 - 206.5 million


A steady decline in the overall loss were taking each year is directly related to our wage budget. Hmm....I wonder who is responsible for that. Italy's economy? The state of Serie A? Or our management?


70m increase in wages over the last 5 years and we haven't even improved that much in quality. This guys is an example of poor management. Brilliance from Galliani and co.