I didn't watch the game but I wasn't surprised when I looked at the result.
Until Milan play great football and win by more than 2 goal margin, there isn't much hope.

simply put kaka dint do enough for to us win, while emerson contributed to us losing.

emersons mission is prettty simple out there, dont do anything stupid which he seems to every match now.
all we ask of him to not foul at every callenge, dont conceed penalties, cover space and mark, make short passes to our midfield and thats about it. but he's not able to do that.

kaka on the other hand is expected to be the difference pretty much all the time, which he hasnt and yes he has played poorly, but at least he doesnt do incredidebly dumb things out there.

Top teams need match winners. Notice the plural. We do seem to rely on Kaka' to perform in order to win games, so when teams just stick to him like glue and let him do nothing, we need somebody else to step up. We've not been getting that of late. Ronaldinho has been playing well, but he isn't doing that much from open play in the last month or so.

I don't know where this "Kaka didn't even care" come from as I think he was trying. Emerson and Favalli tried too. that's not the point. the point is, their destructive mistakes led us to defeat, while Kaka couldn't win us the game.

A big difference there.

I think this is when we need the Online Chat thing to be working can clear some stuff up!!!

2-3 gr8 through balls came from r80 yesterday imo he is doing quite well overall

hmm. tennie, i get why your growing weary of hearing the same thing repeated match in, match out. after every match we play the consensus is emerson sucks and kaka didn't have enough support.

but I pose this question in the spirit of civil discourse.

has there been a game yet this season where emerson has helped us win, where we can say wow, without emerson we wouldn't have won that game?

the way i see it, while yes, every game it boils down to criticizing carlo for playing emerson and the other underperforming veterans, and that can be tiring to read week in week out, I also don't remember us winning a game for a few weeks now! which is also a bit tiring/frustrating.

clearly something we're doing is not working. Benching Kaka even though he's dipped in form would be ludicrous. I am a realist, and i know that benching our World Player of the Year would be like shooting ourselves in the foot. so sure he takes a little blame for the dip in form, but he still must play. in reality its Emerson and Favalli and these types of players whose performances COST us matches. Kaka never COSTS us a match. There's never been a match where I have thought, wow kaka's performance is costing us. Emerson and Favalli on the other hand DIRECTLY lost this match against lazio for us..

have you seen our team play when kaka isn't playing? Palermo. Even when he IS playing we struggle. i mean its BAAD when he doesn't play, and we're mediocre when he does..

doesn't that in itself show that something else with the team is wrong besides his slight dip in form. He is far from the reason this slump is happening. He's a World Player of the Year type talent, so even on his off days he can be a match winner for us..

a huge reason as to why we want Emerson and Fav benched is because we actually HAVE players that can be more useful that end up just sitting and riding the bench while Emerson goes and plays like that. Who would come off the bench for Kaka and do his job better? Kaka on his off day still does more good for us than what Emerson and Fav have been doing..

on the other hand what HAS emerson truly done for us since he's been here? Do you really think he's done more than say a Cardacio or Flamini would have, had they been playing instead?

..and ultimately, it's not EMERSON's fault persay. He's trying his heart out for the shirt and I respect that. This is where the questioning of Carlo begins. and it goes back to zd's old sig "lack of courage/creativity" - the courage to play Flamini and Cardacio a little more rather than go for the 33 year old veteran just due to seniority. Hey, maybe show some creative flare and move Flamini to Left Back for cover rather than use Favalli! maybe that would pay off! Carlo is set in his ways. so that's why he's criticized. He stubbornly will play players that hurt us more than help us, rather than trying something new that could work. How else do you explain the christmas tree against teams like lecce?

This post has been edited by vnata001: Dec 4 2008, 07:41 PM

Well, you cuold say SOMETHING like that for the Atalanta and Siena games. Weak forwards, weak Kaka/Dinho, incredible Rino and Emerson. Weird games, but those are the facts.

The way I see it, Kaka' is playing a bit wider than usual, with Seedorf alternating between Ronaldinho and Kaka' reshuffling that trident behind the striker when in possession.

Kaka' off-forum can be a match winner for Milan ? yes.

But I don't think he is off-form. Rather he is one of the two, either the new tactical setup upfront derives him of doing the most damage "with more balls under his feet" and/or the operation that he did on his knees is setting him back from doing his bold dashes right through the defenses of the opposing team .

If there is a player on this current team that is truly untouchable, it is Kaka' !

I was not talking about last night.


Well... I think he was not, that's where it comes from... I'm talking about his season so far not this game. We disagree on what's fundamental here (if you also were talking about Kaka's display as a whole this season) so there's no need to reply to the rest of your post.

If you were talking about this game then I agree with you.

Ok I just saw this several times ... And its just like the old Sheva knocking in the most amazing of goals (against Lazio (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) ) .. I hope he keeps this form up, Milan needs what he has to offer !!

@vnata:

See man, you've got some points there...but I'm just a little confused about this argument of yours..



See theoretically, an offensive player can never lose you a match, only win matches for you. Similarly for a defensive player, he can never win you matches, just stop you from not losing. Of course with exceptions.

Emerson and Favalli are people who do the dirty work, and most of what they do go unnoticed. Personally, I'm against Favalli playing as a LB, I don't think he has the legs. I agree with whoever said Flamini is better off as LB.


I think mine and Tennie's gripe is how players are not measure relative to their merits. For instance, why is Favalli who we all agree is a third choice squad player expected to turn in the performance of a Nesta or a Roberto Carlos and if he doesn't he is reviled and booed.

The same thing with Emerson. He is third choice too, behind Rino and Ambro. As for Cardaccio and Darmian, it's the Italian tradition. Unless teams are stuck for players, you'll rarely see youngsters given much of a run about. In the EPL it makes sense, since it's an athletic game and the only way you learn to take the knocks and deal with the speed is by playing. But in Serie A, which is a tactical thing, it's all about training.

I don't consider Darmian truth be told, as a first XI. He was just considered good enough to train with the big boys and learn what he can from there. Perhaps as a mental preparation as well. Let's not forget that the boy does play with the primavera still. So he's not kicking his heels rusting away.


I just have another general question. If we purchased Viudez, and made him a primavera player, would that free us our Non-EU spot??

First of all I just want to say vnata, GREAT post. Top class there.


I appreciate you admitting this. Even if I don't agree with some of you views on things, I respect you oppinions, and I definately respect what you've said here. Even though you still stand by what you believe in you admit that Carlo is not the perfect coach and that his flaws are effeciting us negatively.

And I do agree with you also that removing Carlo now would not be the answer, if Galliani wants to change coach then he should have thought of that before the start of the season because changing coach now imo would do more harm then good.

And I personally can only speak for myself but I've witnessed Milan go through tougher times then this, but with the squad Carlo has you'de expect far better then what we're getting and sometimes you can see that the play is just lacking something and it's just an adjustment or 2 away yet Carlo refuses to make those slight adjustments because he likes to stay in his comfort zone.

As for cursing this and that player. I think should Carlo use such players as Favalli and Emerson for what they are, back up to the back ups and not let them jeopardise a younger talented players' carreer then I don't think anyone on here would have a problem with the Favallis and Emersons of the team, it's not like we're paying their wages out of our pockets.


I'm not saying he's beyond criticsm Tennie, try to understand where some of us are coming from. I said myself that he's not playing well and not even reahing half of his potential best atm. But let's give the guy a break, we can't just crucify him for having a dip in form, to me that's very unfair. What he has done in the past to me also factors into things. What had Emerson done for us in the past? Perhaps injured one of our own while playing for Roma or Juve because he's always been a dirty play that would rather go for the legs then the ball.

If he was one of our long serving players that everyone should be thankful for like Paolo then I would have no problem with him, even if he get's a game or 2 more then he deserves (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Paolo shouldn't play but I used him as an example of a player that has served the club for so many years and would have been happy to sink with the club even when he was the world's best defender in his prime, just putting this out there incase dst decides to come at me with the forks and fire) Emerson on the other hand is nothing but a mercenary and a teacher's [et he was hated at Roma and Juve for being Capello's favourite and now he's hated at Milan for being Carlo's favourite.

And I think it's highly unfair to think that Kaka should be criticised for dipping in form and not winning us games like he used to do (even though he's won us a couple this season already even when not at his best) yet Emerson should be defended for costing us matches and playing the way he plays. I'm sorry but I don't understand how you think that's fair


Yes Kaka has had some indifferent gaes this season, but that's only what we see. But so have most of our other players, Kaka only get's the brunt of it because everyone expects him to do the crucial things when all the others around him (save for a few) are slacking. And maybe it's still a confidence issue for him, maybe sometimes he chooses to make a pass rather then blaze through the defence like he used to because he's sub-conciously thinking that the next hit to his knee that he gets could end up ending his carreer.

I compared Carlo to Kaka because both have been lacking. Kaka is not playing as well and Carlo keeps making tactical decisions that cost us matches. Yet Kaka's dip in form is not winning us as much matches so people start slinging mud at him for not being at his super human best and Carlo makes these decisions that cost us matches yet people still find it in them to defend him. And we might all be yelling about Emerson but ultimately it is Carlo's decision to play him, no one else's and if your coach asks you to play, you play.


Exactly!!!!!

And here I was slipping through the pages the latest issue of the 'Han Magazine'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Top post.

I'm not talking about not playing well. That is only logical, I'm not insane to expect someone to do great every week. What I'm talking about is lack of effort... and I'm not saying he's always like that but in my view he has been and for that he deserves some criticism.