One word of clarification: I don't adore Ancelotti. I think he, like the players, should be open to praise when warranted and criticism when warranted.

I will note, however, that in my opinion the criticism of him has been far too harsh. Which is why I've attempted to defend him. Ditto for players deemed to be uncool.

I also disagree with the consistent downgrading of Emerson. If someone dislikes him, that's fine and understandable. Just say 'I don't like this player'. But to say he brings no value to the team is, I think, as incorrect as stating that Kaka never has a bad game and should never be criticized.

I'm going to disagree that Flamini is worlds better than Ambrosini. Especially with regard to crazy fouling, of which Flamini is every bit as guilty as Ambrosini. I don't expect everyone (anyone?) to agree with me and would not be surprised if I were pilloried on this one. I think Ambro is a class player whose importance to the team is undervalued.

I also disagree with the consistent downgrading of Emerson. If someone dislikes him, that's fine and understandable. Just say 'I don't like this player'. But to say he brings no value to the team is, I think, as incorrect as stating that Kaka never has a bad game and should never be criticized.

There's a happy medium somewhere along the line. Nobody's 100% right and nobody's 100% wrong. Respectfully exchanging ideas as we've been doing in this thread is a very positive thing to me. Let's keep it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Who said that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) it looks similar to one of my comments, only I said while Kaka cannot be always be our best player, to criticize him for those few bad games when he's usually playing good is as unfair as expecting him to be at his best in every game!

@ Jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'm not going to even try to quote and respond to you on everything you said in that post. Because it would damn nere be impossible to do.

First of all I'm going to be jumping to my man zd's aid. He's never siad he hated Carlo (not directed at you acid, it's just the way the pro everything that is Milan people are treating him) I personally don't hate Carlo, and as zd said he doesn't hate him either, I'm speaking for myself here but I think zd would agree with me on this one. It's not that I hate him, but I do think he's overstayed his welcome. After Istanbul I was a bit wary of him but still decided to stick by him even if some were already sharpening their knives, and you could look through my earlier posts here, I was a firm supporter of Carlo, in fact Jack usually responded to my posts with "What han said, exactly what he said" (Wow times have changed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) But I decided to stick behind anyway. Then came Sheva's last season with Milan we came so close to winning the Scudetto after trailing Cappello's Juve for the entire season, plus craching out of the CL against Barca in such heart braking circumstances (Sheva's wrongly disallowed goal in the Nou Camp and all the chances we had at San Siro) But over all it was a season to be proud of imo. We played our hearts out, played good football (not our best under Carlo but still good football) But after the 06/07 season and last season where we have been a disgrace. And don't tell me we had tougher times. We had those tough times while basically having a cr@p team constituting of Ba, Helveg, R.Junior and friends, Carlo has always had a top qualithy squad under his hands, and like kurt says, with the players he's had he should have won more, simple as that.

As acid put it so elequently, after Istanbul Carlo's faults began to show themselves full force, they didn't come into effect in the season after that, becuase he had to maintaine the shape of the team since we still had Sheva and spent so much money to bring Gila in that summer. But after losing Sheva it's like the opportunity presented itself to him and he jumped at it. Revert to the old Carlo in his Juve days, play defensive football, try to get a 1 goal lead and hold onto it for dear life.



@ Jack and continuing with the theme of generations, who does Fergie still have from the old gaurd? Giggs and Scholes and both aren't starters anymore. We basically have the same backbone of the team we had 7 years ago. Dida/Abbiati, Maldini, Pirlo/Ambro, Kaka, Pippo.

I don't call that a new generation, and certainly not the 4th one. We do have the same team we started out against, many players have come and gone but we're basically still the same, I wouldn't call Dinho + Zambro a new generation, both are established player with a certain ammount of years left to play (especially Zambro) not counting Boriello since he's always been our player and he still hasn't established himself into the team like those 2 have, and neither has Flamini.

On Ambro, The fouls Ambro makes are not tactical most of the time, he just goes in without thinking 90% of the time. That's why he's been sent off on countless occasions. And sure you've always called Yoann talented, even a blind person would notice he's talented. But you've never really acknowledged the fact that he should play for Milan. You always say that he's not experianced enough and that he over complicates things. But like I said in the Torino thread you don't take any notice of it when Ambro does the same thing week in week out, because no matter how he plays Carlo assures him his spot. Flamini is twice the player Ambro is but Carlo will keep choosing Ambro be he is a personal favourite of his. Carlo doesn't like change simple as that ans all these players have gotten old and need to be replaced but still Carlo can't seem to grasp onto that fact.

You mentioned the guy I argued with some time back, and I still stand by what I said to him, you can't win every game 3-0, this isn't a video game, infact I believe that winning a hardfought 1-0 when things aren't really going your way and the team is off their game a bit is a mark of a team that is heading for the Scudetto. But having said that, we're not really doing that are we? We come onto the pitch we play at probably 50% of our potential, if we score he goal early we immediately try to close up shop and stop playing, or we start to rely on the ref doing us a favour, we've had 4 consecutive penalties awarded to us at home now and only one of them imo is justified. Not to metion the sending offs against Napoli and Samp. We just can't keep playing like this, we need to rely on ourselves, not luck or the referee. Simple as that. And Imo this attitude from our players stems from our coah. He is the one that guides the team, whatever he projects to them on a daily bases will reflect on the pitch.

On the youth aspect of it all, I find it arrogant that Carlo thinks that he doesn't have the time to gove these kids a chance. And we're not talking about who produces the best talents, but about coaches who actually give these kids a chance. Sure Barca produce the best talents but they also give them a chance, you don't see them loaning out Messi/Bojan/Iniesta/Xavi, etc They are first team regulars because they were given the chance. And sure Arsenal don't produce their own talents but they find them and give them the chances. I don't understand why we're buying kids like Yoann, Cardacio and Viudez, or even Pato for that matter when Carlo is so against giving them the appropriate time to gain the experiance and get the feel of what playing in games against tough opposition is like. You say it's the academy's responsability but there is a limit to what they can do and and some point the head coach either promotes them to the full team or they ship them off somewhere.

The xmas tree is not a formation that has to be used, contrary to that it's a formation that should be avoided. The 2 striker system is a system that is proven to work in te league. Carlo just prefers the xmas tree over it because it's more defensive simple as that. It doesn't make us play better. It doesn't help us defend beter, in fact we've conceeded more goals playing with it then we do while playing with 2 strikers.

I think it's more that I don't think things are balanced, han. There's very little praise of the good stuff that Bonera's done, for example (is anyone else aware he's supposed to start for Italy tonight?), while on the other hand volumes are written about players who don't seem to be popular, such as Abbiati and Emerson. I don't think everyone has acknowledged how well the Boneras and Zambrottas have been playing. Not at all. Add to this that criticizing some players who don't have good games (Kaka, except for the Chievo game) is liable to open one up to some not-very-nice attacks. We are ALL welcome to our opinions and we all have players we like and players we don't much like. But I don't think there's been a lot of balance in the way some players have been praised to the skies, some players ignored, and others on a permanent 'he sucks and should die' list.

It's all a matter of balance for me.

Again going to respectfully disagree, acid.

How do you know nobody else wanted Emerson? Can you cite sources? He was unhappy at Madrid but that hardly means no other club wants the guy. If Carlo wanted the player here, then maybe he saw something positive in his presence. I'm willing to give the coach the benefit of the doubt on this one. Granted, serious injuries have blighted most of his time here up to now, but that can happen to any player. As for his not being able to do anything other players can do, I also think that's a fallacy. The only players who I think are absolutely unique in what they can do on the pitch are Kaka and Pirlo.

As for the hole of the last two seasons, I disagree that it's ONLY because we didn't invest in youth. Actually, Milan has been far more active in bringing in youth players than it has been bringing in grownups - including this summer. The fact that we've yet to produce a new Maldini is unfortunate and regrettable and something I wish would change. Surely the transfer market - remember calciopoli and Silvio's odd reluctance to spend - also had something to do with the hole of the last two seasons. Yeah, the primavera could be better, but so too could the transfer market have been (not counting the summer of 2008).

See, this is where I see the difference. When things like 'he's not worthy' are said about a guy who plays a good game while at hte same time 'he's great!' is said about players who don't play a good game, I think it's inconsistent and unbalanced.

Would I prefer to see De Rossi here instead of Emerson? Sure. Am I going to cut down every good thing Emerson does because he doesn't fit the ideal of what I think a Milan player should be? No. I try to judge each player performance by performance even though I'm far from perfect at it (dst's kaladze post after last year's atalanta game remains probably my favorite post on this board).

han, you're one of those who does recognize when less-heralded players do well. Not everyone does that, however. All I'm suggesting is that we in general could all stand to be a little more balanced in our assessments.