Every fan of every club thinks their club is special.

Hah I can now see why Tennie left this place. If you don't know the philosphy Milan has been employing since Berlusconi took over, regardless of his personal and political shortcomings, then there is no doubt you don't see what makes Milan special in comparison with other top teams. Teams like Milan and to a good extent Man U have been competitive and treated their champions with care and respect. Speaking about Milan exclusively now, even recently with all the financial troubles the world hase been going through, we are holding on to something so precious and I hope we don't ever let go. The team that won the CL in 2007 was in no way comparable with other teams in terms of age and even quality. Yet, this team played like a classical piece on the pitch. Like a Beethoven masterpiece. Full of emotion, full of the color red. You can't explain a classical masterpiece as a scientist, it just moves through your heart. It's art. It's the art of humanity, passion, sacrifce. We had Maldini and Costacurta as our defenders inour recent history... Never saw these two behave less than a hero. And that also comes across in what they do off the field. Sheva was just a loveable footballer. That smile on his face, the passion, the spirit. Milan, the ideal, has always been the backbone behind Milan's success on paper as far as I can go back in Berlusconi's era.

Lord of the Rings triliogy is one of the most popular achivements in cinema. Why? Cool looking creatures? Well, that's just a platform to deliver a message. Aragorn could have spent day and night explaining to Boromir why they shouldn't use the ring on their quest to destroy it to no avail and as great a metaphore that is, I don't expect you x off and some others to agree or understand. So go ahead with your beliefs, I like a challange.

And saying things like shut the f@ck up and love him or put sentimental b/s aside can turn in to a war of words (how pathetic) and end up in one of us getting banned.

I can't recall getting in trouble on these boards, but you can try me

Brilliant post. Exactly what I've had in mind.

Very good post. But I stand by what I said before and this isn't a debate worth getting into.

Yes, because he's right

I'm just not interested in getting involved, it's something I'm not going to be dragged in to.

I've been a Milan fan for more than 10 years now, so I don't need you or anyone to tell me about the morals and values of this club. What you said is nothing but the truth. However, like I already mentioned, that doesn't make us more special than any other football club. A supporter's opinion will always be biased, no matter how hard they might try to see things from a different point of view. In the end, what distinguishes this club from the majority is the silverware. I highly doubt your poetic speech would had felt the same had we won just a couple of trophies in these 25 years of presidency under Berlusconi. Winning made us a family, or if you like, winning made us special.

I'm too new of a Milan fan to comment much about the history, but I do know that winning alone doesn't make a team special.

Look at the New York Yankees in baseball. They're called the "evil empire" for a reason, and even their fans don't really argue against it.

I personally think both sides of the argument are valid.

What Max says is true, x-off agreed as well, when saying that all supporters view their club as being special is also true. Imo what distinguishes one club from another is class. You hear people talking about classy clubs, and Milan has always fallen into that bracket, Real Madrid are just as successful if not more then us, but you never hear anyone talking about them being a classy club.

The family values atc, etc, are something that have been drilled into Milan fans by Galliani and co for years now, imo they are true to an extent but it's also a term that is abused by the management. I believe this simply because of the treatment Paolo got when he retired, imo, our management showed their true colours on that occasion and all the family BS they speak of got ruined in my eyes.

I believe the players when they say that they feel a special atmosphere at Milan, and the players are always treated well, but I believe the management like talking about Milan as a family to avoid moving forward with the team, "we won't abandon out champions etc, etc" to avoid having to start a new cycle. Our midfield has been the same for a decade now, that is not normal. Sometimes you just have to move on, give the players a respectful sending off and continue on.

Spoken like a true Han. Yeah well, I don't know about you, but a whole lot of the "classy club" comments I heard from other football followers for Milan were because of the players we had playing for us through the years. Not exactly the management, but fine chaps like Maldini, Kaka, Van Basten, Boban, Gianni Rivera and (countless other) friends. Of course, the management (mostly B&G) played their part, but the legend was built by the sweet and blood of those who wore the club colors.

As for the term being abused by the management, totally agreed. Where was the class when they ruined Paolo's last match. Same goes for respectively sending off players. Everyone wants to play as much as they can, not all players have the eyes to see that they are past it. And then there is the recent overall aura coming out of both the Milan clubs, I frankly feel we are the new inter, and the blue guys are the new Milan. Truth be told, this something that I have been feeling for a few years now:

inter team applauding us in the first derby match after our 2007 CL win, we signing egotistical maniacs at wholesale rates, getting beaten by EPL sides three times in a row and falling at the first hurdle in the CL, while this year they have left us in the dust literally after locking horns with Bayern. We surely look like a club that is going for the title by hook or crook (both it seems). I would never have thought I would see the day MvB 2.0 played in our shirt, so on and so forth.

It's not like we are 100% the new inter, and vice versa, but I have been sensing the winds of change for a while now. Partly because we have done some things that we wouldn't have say, at the start of the decade, and also inter got a new coat of personality after their consistent league wins, the good showing in Europe, topped with the treble last year. This probably irked B&G to no end, IMO, and we seem to have sold our soul, or part of it, at least.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The Yankees aren't exactly classless as they, like Milan, will hold onto their players longer than they should. The reason they Yankees are hated is because they spend far more money than anyone else and win more than anyone else. If Milan started to outspend everyone and win everything, we'd be hated by everyone - regardless of the way we look after our players.

I will say it's easy to be loyal when you're great. This goes for both a player and a club.

Excellent points. Well said!

This post sums up exactly how I feel about the recent changes Milan has undergone. I call it Interization

Nice name. Brilliant name, as a matter of pure fact.

You actually said nothing there... I agree with it but it has nothing to do with Milan being or not being special. Of course every fan of every club thinks their club is special, the point is some clubs actually are special. Every man in love thinks his woman is beautiful... that does not mean Marissa Miller is not beautiful because her man is just another guy in love who thinks so.


We're more special than Real Madrid and they've won as much as we've had since Berlusconi bought Milan. And personally, I picked this club exactly because of what it is and represents, they were not winning at the point I started following them.

Athletic Bilbao is a special club and I have not seen them win anything lately... Kurt's Aston Villa too... I fail to see how every winning team is the same and how every non-winning team is the same...

Your point about winning making us a family is wrong... why won't people accept Ibra as part of the family then, we're winning thanks to him at the moment aren't we?

Like I said above the fact that every fan of every club thinks their club is special is totally irrelevant because some clubs actually are special...

I don't see why there can't be special clubs anyway... using that logic one can say there's no special anything then, there is just popular and non-popular stuff.

I don't know how much of that is true, because I haven't read or heard anything about it in the Italian media today. Nevertheless, if it is true, then it's a clear fall from grace from Ricky boy. Begging us to get him back, when he could have easily declined Madrid's offer in the first place.



Silverware comes before values and class. If you have both, as in our case, then it's perfect. If you have only silverware, it's still OK. But if you have only values and class, I doubt anyone would care about you. For all we know, Albinoleffe could be a very respectful club, but does anyone care? Silverware is what makes a club important, not class. And I want Milan to continue remaining a successful and important club, by starting winning trophies again. With or without Ibrahimovic matters little to me. But if he's giving a big hand in the said aspect, then I'd greet him from the bottom of my heart.

So basically you're saying you wouldn't support a club unless you had bragging rights?

He never said anything like that.

He basically said he'd rather Milan have success than be classy and I agree 100%.

Ah okay. Well....to each his own.

Exactly.

I can't take anyone seriously who says they support Milan because of their class. Had they not won all these trophies under Silvio, the majority of people on here wouldn't support Milan in the first place. If it is all about class, then why not some other club? There's plenty of classy clubs out there, so why pick Milan?

As X-Off says, for all we know some lower league teams are just as classy as Milan, but we don't know. Why? Because nobody cares. They aren't on tv, they don't win things, they don't have flashy players. Outside of the city very few people will care about their club. It sounds disrespectful, in fact it is disrespectful, but it's true. I would say Villa are a pretty classy club. Our players are all linked with charities and the club make them do numerous events during the year and we recently gave up our shirt sponsor to create awareness for a local charity for 2 years. We also have a chairman that says nothing to the media rather than getting himself all over the papers and news all the time.. am I happy? Am I ****. I want to win. It's been 15 years since we last won anything and whilst it's all well and good that we're though of as a nice club, I just want to win something!

I supported Milan because of Maldini. I didn't even know what he'd won then.

And I support Newcastle in EPL....and it's not like they won anything ever since I started watching them. oh well...League One champs...I guess.

So then it's nothing to do with class, Newcastle have been about the least classy club in the country for a number of decades. You followed it because of Maldini but had no idea what Milan had won.. yet you knew how classly the club was? How exactly?

I'm not going to lie, I support Milan because of Sheva. Had he not been a great player on a good team, I highly doubt I would have grown any attachment to Milan at all.

Yeah, I think some of us started supporting Milan this way too. Not so much of class or success but a player you admire, a player you grow watching. That's how I became attached to AC Milan.

Milan is a club that is widely supported. Some of the fans are sentimental, some football philosophers, some of them gloryhunters. It's reality.

But X-Offs point still remains. The only reason the club is widely supported is because they're successful, not classy. It's easy to become sentimental after support a top club. I could just as easy sit here and say it's because of classy guys like Paolo, Billy and Franco, etc.

Actually, no. It isn't. But it's just like I've said in my earlier post.

If you say so. But I'm talking more about people on this forum, than the whole fanbase. And judging by the ages of the majority of this forum, most either weren't born or wouldn't exactly be avid tv watchers before Milan were successful.

Yes, there is a difference between supporting a successful team and supporting a team because of their success.. But even with the former, I don't think alot on here would support Milan had they been unsuccessful - like X-Off says, it's the reason people on here don't support classy Serie C teams instead.

I don't think anyone can argue that they know about Milan because they were successful, the only one's I'd really let off are the ones who were born near Milan. I guess compared to other major clubs they are a lot more respectful, I mean you look at Madrid/Barca, Chelsea/Liverpool etc the club is nothing like that.

If Milan never won the European Cups or Scudetto and resided in the Serie B all their existence etc are you telling me this board would be so popular because they have good ethics? There are clubs with just as good ethics all over the world, yet we don't know about them because they aren't successful or anywhere near as.

Like it or not Milan are a massive club, arguably bigger than everyone bar Madrid in terms of history. It would be like someone supporting Barca now and then saying solely it's down to when they ran the Unicef campaign, I mean how many truely would believe that? Many on here got into Milan because of Maldini, Van Basten, Kaka, Shevchenko, whatever the age range, these are massive, world-class players still.

It's good if you know the history/ethics of a club and there's a difference between being a glory supporter and following a team, a big difference in my mind. I mean for a start you wouldn't have much glory in the last few years and they've probably all gone to support Inter as their Italian team now anyway.

My last peice on this arguement..

Obviously Milan had success both in Italy and on the European stage before Silvio. But Milan really started to dominate in the late 80s. So even if you are 30 years old now, you'd have only been about 6 at the start of the Silvio reign. So how many 6 year olds follow a football team? Probably a few. How many 6 year olds follow a team in another country? Not many. How many 6 year olds follow a team in another country, who hasn't been that successful for decades? Again, not many. How many 6 year olds follow a team in another country, that hasn't been successful for decades, and now about how that club is run and how classy it is? Probably a handfull, not many at all.

The issue for me is that, even if you're 30 years old now (not many members on this board are), you'd still not have known a Milan before they were successful. Now, that isn't even the main issue. There was no internet back then, how do you find out about the club? Tv, sure, but even then there's going to be a language barrier and people aren't even fully fluent in there native language at that age, forget learning another language for football reasons! Tv shows really only show football stuff too, you won't really learn much about a club unless you maybe live in that City where they're likely to do many interviews. But living in a different country, I don't see how you're going to learn about it.

I just don't see how anyone on this forum even really knows Milan before they were successful to say they only support them because of their class. It's easy to say that now with the internet and all. But anybody my age and younger wasn't even born before Silvio took over, most people on this forum weren't old enough to talk or understand football properly. It's just a houllier than thou kind of attitude that's annoying.

I would move this somewhere than the Kaka thread but seeing as it keeps getting continued, I'm going to follow suit. I predominantly agree Kurt, I'll be up front the about the reason I followed Milan. When I was growing up we didn't have Sky Sports not whilst I was really young like say 7/8, and I remember watching games back then so I was mentally capable of following a club. So without Sky Sports, what was there, there was Football Italia on Ch.4 that's what there was, you know 'Goalllllll Lazio' at least that's what it sounded like. It was on Saturday mornings and they showed a live game on Sunday afternoon around 2pm like kick-off times now.

After watching that for a few years I grew an attachment with Milan, loved their style of play and obviously they were pretty successful which as a young lad was a bit more reason to follow them. Though do remember this was well after the early 90's when they were the best team on the planet. After that I continued to watch Serie A on there and always attempt to follow Milan by buying an Italian football magazine, the name escapes me now but it used to come out each month. As long as I caught the Saturday show I knew how Milan were doing and would see their goals and obviously if they were on, on the Sunday that was a massive bonus. Though even when he was like 17 and at Parma Buffon was my idol back then as I used to play in goal for school and a team of mine, I wasn't the greatest fan of Pagliuca. Just could always tell this guy was going to be amazing in all honesty.

Then I got older and Italian football became easier to watch and easier to follow with the mainstream birth of the internet. Oh, and a young Ukranian forward joined from Kiev... Need say no more.

The reason I watch Milan is this and that they were quite successful (that was when I was young, I'm not a glory supporter) If I were I wouldn't support Torquay I'd have supported Man United or something. I didn't really know about their history back then, it wasn't readily available to me and apart from a few articles in a magazine it was hard to find information on. Therefore I can't say I support Milan for it's history/ethics, obviously since the birth of the Internet I've been able to find out much more. In all honesty to the people who mainly support the clubs for it's ethics, I'd really like to know how. Unless you're like 12 or under or from Italy and have always had the net I really don't see how you could.

Gee, and I though "Interization" was off-topic enough. A couple of good posts above, nonetheless.

Good post.

I'll just add that I'm not saying you're all glory hunters either. Supporting a top team does not just make you a glory hunter if you continue to support the team through thick and thin. Just because I'm saying there's only a handful of people on here that even could support Milan purely based on an ethical basis, doesn't mean I'm saying the rest of you only support Milan for their success.

Like me. Did I support Milan through ethics? No. Did I support them because they were pretty successful? In a way, yes. Would I stop supporting them if they didn't win anything? No. The attachment for me to the club has grown over the past decade or so and I'm not going to just stop following them, just like I imagine nobody else on here will.

I don't buy the ethics thing in a way because Silvio and Galliani have done some rather embarassing things in recent years. Whether it be the "Haha, we stole Suazo off you Moratti!" disgrace that broke that morning or one of Silvio's.. 'adventures'. I'm sure there's classy clubs with classy players out there, who haven't done such bad things, Bilbao springs to mind.

As I said in a previous post, it's the way some members on here, in this thread, have tried to knock others based on the fact we don't follow them purely based on how classy the club is, that's pissed me off.

EDIT: Is it possible to move a group of posts? You could always put it in General Football Talk in Football Discussion if you can.

Just did it, was too lazy to before

And to think this whole argument spurred from Ibrahimovic's red card.

I am 39 this year. Growing up in scotland, when i was at Primary school, peer pressure was rife and still is. You had to be "rangers" or "celtic" and most times got a punch if you said the wrong team. **** that! Also at that time, late late seventies, early eighties, Dundee United and Aberdeen rose to the fore with legendary european wins against Barca etc.....So i remember when i was about 9 years old, i only supported the scottish national team and tried not to give in to peer pressure, the kids in my year at school and the ones older would play football at break time, and the teams would be picked on who you supported. So there were 30'ish Rangers supporters and 8 "rest of the world (scotland) supporters, these were aberdeen, dundee utd, hibs, hearts etc supporters. So out of sheer "**** you" attitude and a love of the underdog i always sided with the "rest of the world" team. 8 v 30 nice odds, i liked it. Trouble for them was most of the 30 were sheep, just following their peers and doing what they were told, so the 8 of us hammered them every single break time, we didnt run around shouting about it, we just (with a quiet determined air) hammered them every time and kept doing it every day. I struck up a great friendship with a wee lad, his dad used to play for Hibs as a goalie, they used to go on holiday to spain etc and my friend always came back with football shirts, barca, real etc etc and that opened up my eyes to football out of UK, it did seem so exotic to me as i was only 9/10 years old, but then you hear these names, then your ears prick up when something is said on TV, or that barca were going to be playing in scotland. It all made me see further afield than scotland and the UK, what i remember about british football was muddy pitches and Leeds United kicking lumps out of the opposition....Oh and Big Daddy on world of sport.

But my eyes had been opened and still to this day i am more interested in watching football from other countries especially brazil, argentina, spain, holland and Italy, after all the peer pressure in my youth i chose my own team, Marco VB helped a lot in that decision but i chose Milan, and thats it, end of story i am a Rossoneri!

I think ethics are one of the main pillars of sport. To behave in a prompt and correct manner in front of an audience that are stretched far and wide across continents. Many teams behave correctly on the pitch, leveraged by disciplinary measures taken by FIFA on fair-play conduct. Yet others take it to a whole new level, where ethics is embedded in the very core of the clubs management.

Now of course, trophies and medals do not come as a direct result of ethical conduct. Nor does one become ethical because of winning. Both are different, yet each represents a different success.

Today, I believe Milan is one of the very few clubs out there that has been able to build on two pillars of success & ethics.

First of all I’d just like to say that I’m an old fashioned idiotic f**k and am not expecting anyone to adhere to my standards. I was first attraced to Milan in 2002 when a close friend who is a Milanista directed my attention to how the club treated Albertini despite him getting long in the tooth.

Before that I bounced around from club to club following my favourite player(S). I first was a Manchester United fan- which was kinda obligatory for all Trinidadians since Dwight Yorke was one of their main protagonists for three years including their treble. Then I followed Gabriel Batistuta from Florence to Rome (Still have the Roma uniform) to Inter (apologies retroactively). As Batigol also began to decline I joined Milan primarily because of my second favourite player $heva. But since ’02 I’ve never seen players as tightly knit and friendly as the Milanistas. Maybe it was just Ancelotti’s charm maybe the stars aligned to give us the brightest constellation of stars at the time…..I dunno but I’ve never felt that love and brotherhood at any other club during my gloryhunting days. Up to the Leonardo firing/ Ibra transfer this is the only thing that has remained intact through all of our ups and downs over these past nine years. And this is only one of the reasons why I bemoan his very existence in the red and black.

Milan has stuck with Costacurta, Maldini, Cafu, Serginho, and MANY others long after they have past their best. One way of looking at it is us being too cheap to rejuvenate at the required rate to remain competitive but another way is as a club that does not simply abandon PEOPLE as quickly as your average club for only FOOTBALL reasons. Call me a sentimental c**t but I respect that. I like how we take risks on the long shots like Ronaldo, Cafu, Oddo, Stam, Beckham etc….even if these don’t always return as much as expected. Yes indeed it can be frustrating at times but it leaves Milan with a luster and ebullience that dare I say NOBODY else has.

When Ronaldo got injured the club stood by him….to the extent that he still has only knid words for us and Ancelotti. My favourite player Ronaldo was praised to the heavens by the squad of ’07 despite him being ineligible for the CL. Seeing the constellation of stars, who to me were by and large ALSO good men gave me a feeling of pride. It didn’t matter that we didn’t always win. We stood for something far loftier than JUST trophies or three points at a time. We had a genuine swagger about ourselves that was more beautiful than the standard variety of arrogance. It was confidence…..confidence that we could always rise to any occasion. We could lose to Piacenza one game and demolish Real or Bayern Munich the other….Now the Milan- with all of its glory from the previous decade is progressively being eroded not by ageing players but by the commoner philosophy (if his banal mentality can be called that) of Allegri and Ibra. These guys have both shined on the small stage consistently and believe that their blue collar methods can work in my beloved club. I’ve been opposed to iBra being here because I understand his nature. His ceiling is only so high and his mentality is infectious. Indeed he is a giant vs the small teams but he has historically been a midget on the big stage whether that be vs a BIG team or in a high stakes situation. He does not conform to the Mentality of Milan that I’ve grown to associate with the club. $heva aside, NONE of our past players was ever consistently as good as iBra and iBra in turn NEVER ascended to the heights of individual brilliance of $heva, Kaka, Weah, Seedorf, Stam, Maldini, Nesta and even Pato and Ronaldo

I'll just jump in with both feet here... I don't disagree with your points here, but I could make the exact same post by substituting the names (and the CL, admittedly ) with Arsenal names, and the post would be no less valid. Truth is, the sh*t has hit the fan at Milanello as much as it has hit most other clubs, just as Milan has seen some glorious moments which perfectly combines class and sporting supremacy.

There's very, VERY few clubs you couldn't say that about.

Sentimental c*nt.

Good post man! I think you hit a nail on the head that has been missing.

Again i feel this takes us back to the youth, and what seems to be the eternally burning question of why they are not being bloodied for milan, and almost always seem to be sent out on loan to get that experience.

Point from last game, Ibra suspended, left with 3 Forwards, no strikers, no goals, even with ibra there are never any forwards in 18 yrd box if a cross comes in. Seems like all we have is forwards, and with Pippo injured there are no natural strikers. With the amount of balls put into the area on sunday, Huntelaar would have had a field day, why wont Allegri call up the youth?

Well with the derby coming and suspensions and injuries he may have to.

Infact, he needs to!

Don't you remember him playing for us?! Hell, if I were upfront at Old Trafford we would have been in the lead in the first few minutes.

The club may be classy, the fans sure as hell aren't.

Can't disagree with this if I tried.

The words "fans" and "classy" in Italy don't hold any meaning if put together.

Ethics ,Success, style of football, favourite player etc etc all good reasons to follow a football team. i think a reason for someone following a football team ( i use the term follow as most people seem to have a prefered team and Milan is a 2nd team) is down to the individual and whatever reason they give they can alway validate it in their own way. now the reason about the age thing is to me neither here nor there i am probably in the top 3 when it comes to oldest members on the board but i've researched the history of the club to get a complete understanding of the team i support. i remember a conversation some months ago concerning seedorf and a certain member (who shall remain nameless) was slating him to the hills, and then when somone mentioned the fact he'd won the C.L 4 times with 3 different clubs the nameless member was shocked as this fact had escaped his attention...
so basically my point is this..the reason you follow a club is only important to you yourself but at least have the decency to do a little research and get yourself informed of it's past before you can make a balenced judgement!

but whatever your reason, however small or life changing it is welcome the the family of Rossoneri!!!
i for 1 welcome you with open arms and a cold beer FORZA MILAN PER SEMPRE!!

Welcome back, Mishie.


I think this is a big thing when supporting a club. It's sad how many people don't really take an interest in their clubs history though. I know a lad who's been a Wolves season ticket holder for years.. yet he didn't know until a few weeks ago that they'd been Champions of England before. Incredible really!