Forget the call, he should have blown the end of the game.

It was obvious he just wanted to give them the pen

I haven't been this p!ssed off in a while, We deserved that draw imo. We might have played with our tails between our legs but we generally contained them and Donna replied to whatever they threw at him

Absolutely disgusting stuff. Juve are the most despicable side in the league and it's just disgusting how they get constantly helped out even when they have everything going for them.

The time had expired by a minute when that was given and no way was that ever a penalty. It hit DS's stomach, and as you said, if it had hit his hand it should still have never been given

Are you sure you weren't watching a Juve-Milan of 2008/09 or something? Fixed? Low tempo? Agreed withe draw? No, just no.

I'm letting myself calm down. I have to, otherwise I'll break something. But that angered me. Fair enough if our defence had just been breached and they got a goal fair and square - heart breaking but at least fair. This was just a total rip off.

Only one who's convinced it was a pen. I'm always honest when it comes to this stuff - when our players **** up, I condemn them. If it was a foul, it was a foul. I like to be impartial when it comes to decision making.

And that wasn't, in no month of Sundays, a penalty.

PS raging on the Internet is a nice therapeutic way to unleash the fury for me without smashing my home into tiny bits.

Come on d'Arc, what are you talking about, we played how you'd expect us to play when facing a team with much better quality than our away from how where they have virtually won every game.

We got our equaliser and shut up shop, and while I thought it was a mistake for Montella to take off Bacca it generally worked out for us as we contained them better with the 5 mids. And whenever they did manage to break through Donna was absolutely incredible.

The penalty was an absolute gift to them because they were whining their asses off and as usual, they got the call.

Plus injury time had expired by a minute when that was given

Absolutely shameful display by the officials today. I'm truly p!ssed off.

Sosa red added 30 seconds, unfortunately. They add 30 for reds and subs as far as I know.

Ok, that is your opinion. I would write in Albanian and explain better what am I thinking, but that is not fair for others.

I can't remember when I was this chill after a loss though. Zapata and Pasalic made me angry from time to times, but I accepted that and just wanted to see the players acting.

It was still over 30. The clock had turned to 50 when that was called, taken at 51

Read Dybala's justification

“We are accustomed to when these things happen against us. I want to see if they say something about the penalty Cristian Zapata had on me. At Udinese we were denied two penalties and we didn’t say anything."


Even he knows it was a BS call, but was happy to take it because it "happened to them before" give me a f@cking break

The fact that we were very poor is not contested. But I think that since Juve is facing Porto in CHL, both teams would benefit if they treated themselves more softly. Galliani likes to see SerieA with one more spot in CHL and we were going to loose or draw (at best scenario) either way. What I think is that the refs were not part of it, that is why they accorded the penally. Otherwise I can't find a decent explenation for: 1) how bad at basic things we were, 2) low tempo by both Milan and Juve, 3) not showing will even at very risky situations, like Kucka and Bertolacci in more than one occasions, 4) the subs (not only Kucka for Bacca, you have a Lapadula who runs like a dog and you dont bring him instead of Ocampos but you go with Vangioni and double the LB position?!), 5) Galliani leaving the tribunes 4 minutes before the end, 6) loosing the ball on purpose especially from 75th minute, look at Sosa and other mids, and many other reasons. I am sure, this was fixed man. I know this for sure, it is actually my job to know this. I hope I am wrong though, 'cos that would be awful.

EDIT: Some match stats https://scontent.fprx2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1...amp;oe=592A463F

And, are we going to deny the fact that Zapata tackled Dybala on the box? Also Baccas hand ball after Pjanic's corner?

BTW, when Bacca scored, he was offside when Deulofeu passed to him. https://scontent.fprx2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1...amp;oe=5927690B

And DS's arm was not close to his chest: https://scontent.fprx2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1...amp;oe=5935E1BD

And Pasalic deserved second yellow too when he hit Kedira behind his neck with his elbow and he already had yellow. We are not that innocent.

Look, I think you're reading too much into certain things

1) We generally suffer at doing basic things any given week. It's why we're 7th and won't be any better until we get actual better players who can pull off doing the basic things. This isn't the first time that our players struggled to correctly execute a pass longer than a meter. It's something we see each week.

2) I don't think Juve were playing at a low tempo at all, when they were pressing us, we were struggling to keep up and get a breather at certain points. Yes we were deliberately lowering the tempo, but that's actually a smart thing to do when you know your opponents have far more quality than you and you're being run ragged, you try to keep hold of the ball by slowing the game down a bit so you can re-group

Side note: Forget the CL, Italy will be getting 4 spots come 2019, meaning the top 4 sides in the league next season will go straight into the CL (without even having to qualify). So that theory is baseless. Galliani has a foot out the door as well, he doesn't need to be fixing sh!t so Italy has more spots in the CL

3) How many times does Kucka make a numbskull decision in crucial moments? I think we've all figured out and accepted the fact that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. And aside from Sosa, and Deulofeu, all our other players seriously lack in basic technical abilities, Berto is half decent but get him on his right foot and he's handicapped

4) Montella went way too cautious way too early imo, but I still think the 5 mids helped us control things. Vangioni didn't matter in the end we played through that game and held on for as long as we could before the ref eventually and very expectedly screwed us over

5) He generally does that unless it's on a knives edge, I'm going to go ahead and assume that he thought we'd hold the draw

7) I don't think it was on purpose at all. We were just looking to punt it up and get it out of the danger areas. At least we weren't messing about with it in front of our defence like we tend to do

That wasn't a penalty imo, if he'd called it, it would have rivalled the one Suarez got in mid-week

Don't know if he actually touched it.

But fact is, if he had to give a penalty, he should have given either one of those and not the one he didn't even see at the death when he wasn't 100% sure that it was a penalty

Dybala practically says in clear Egnlish that it wasn't a penalty, but it was atonement for the ones they haven't been given before. Like that's a good excuse, and like he wasn't whining like a little b!tch as well to get the penalty the he knew was never a penalty


The tip of his boot was slightly offside sure, We've been on the receiving end of a handful of offside goals as well this season.

From the other angle it clearly hits his stomach not his hand, this one skews your judgement. And even so, it was still ball to hand, they were too close and in no uncertain terms should that have been given, especially when the ref didn't have a clear view of it, time had expired and it was a kick that would decide the game

Bit tired of some folk actually trying to take Juve's side in this thread.

**** them. Juve that is.

Little known fact about added time - whatever is shown on the screen is meant to be absolute minimum. Further delays IN that added time simply extend it. Purely refereeing discretion how much.

Either way we were totally screwed over tonight.

Ok now I know why people are not so active here anymore, thanks for reminding me. Bye

Sorry, but the 'f*ck them' was clearly aimed at Juve, not you. But yeah, if all you're going to do is take the side of our opposition and try to justify everything they did, I stand by my distaste of of your comments.

And people aren't active here for many reasons. I highly doubt I'm one of them given I wasn't on here for like 7 months and the place was already dying.

From what I gather, Bacca had to be restrained from assaulting the ref. Unnacceptable, and shameful - cannot behave like that even when everyone is against you. I understand his anger, most of us were filled with it last night ourselves, but you cannot attack the officials.

Montella's post match comments were good, and dignified, and defended the honour of the club without antagonising the officials.

In some ways, in the cold light of day, this was the best way for this match to end.

If we'd won, we'd be acting like we did last year, a bunch of kids, like a Crotone beating the mighty Juve, and it led to a slump we took a LONG time to get out of. A draw also would have have given us a little bit of ego that this team hasn't earned.

But a totally unjustified loss makes the players angry, defiant, determined, and eager to make up for it. It shows they will fight. It gives them the right motivation to do their talking on the pitch for the rest of the season.

Meh still think the draw would have been the correct result and would have been easier to move on from

But I agree about the part of this firing the players up. We have a decent schedule coming up now up till the Inter game if I'm not mistaken, we've come out of a pretty difficult run of fixtures with a decent point tally imo, so if we do our best in the upcoming games we should be in a good position come the end of the season, let's see what Inter and Atalanta do tomorrow. Either a draw or an Inter win would be best for us. We need Lazio and Atalanta to drop off so we can occupy one of their places imo if we want to place in a European spot. Inter imo will continue to win so I don't think we can overtake them

As for Montella, I agree, he's shown class throughout the season, exactly what I would expect from a Milan coach

And as for Bacca, he's disgraceful, no need to be acting like an idiot, it's not like he's going to reverse his decision

And it looks like we've lost Suso to a long term injury as well, just perfect...

All the things that were going right for us in the first half of the season are piling up into a mountain of sh!t luck now

I'm not bothered about Suso. I don't think he's that important - not now that we have Deulofeu giving us a completely different kind of outlet which is doing as much damage now as Suso was in his best form earlier in the season.

He has pace, can beat players, and is a team player - Suso definitely improved mentally this season but the past couple of months I saw a lot of his old traits creeping back in - and he has no pace, and can rarely beat players. His set pieces are also absolutely honking.

It's better to have them both though, no?

Deulofeu seems more like a counter-attacking player. He has great speed, but Suso has more vision. He could create chances at any moment.

Suso out, but we will get Honda and soon Montolivo too.

You always want your best players, of course, but I've been a lot less impressed with Suso in the past while. Only way we'll know how we do without him is seeing how the upcoming matches go, I guess. As for Deu, composure at high pace is something we haven't had for years. In fact, I can barely remember us ever having that at all since Kaka. We had the speed machine of Niang but absolutely no quality to go with it - and aside that I can't think of too many locomotives we've had who could actually do something with that pace. I'm probably forgetting someone.

I wouldn't call Suso slow, he just hasn't got that quick turn of pace like Deu does which can leave defenders in the dust, but he's quick once he gets in motion, not to mention I think as x-off said, that he's a better playmaker than Deu, his left foot can be magic at times.

Sure he's not been in his best form recently, but he's been playing non-stop all season, this being his first injury (unsurprisingly a muscle problem) his form was going to falter at some point as fatigue started to set in. The problem with having such a thin squad - even when playing in only 2 competitions - is that you can't give your players any rest. And we've seen the consequences of this now when we're deep into the season and we've lost Bonaventura, Suso and Romagnoli to muscle injuries in the last 2 months or so. Thankfully only one of them was serious. But it's no coincidence that these problems are cropping up now and to the players we rely on so heavily.

So as x-off said, it would be better if we could have all of our best players available. We'd definitely be stronger with Suso instead of Ocampos and Bona instead of Berto

Berto shouldn't be playing. It's something I intrinsically disagree with Montella on. Berto has done nothing in the past month or so to prove me wrong about his utter mediocrity.

My best trio in midfield right now is Sosa (best vision and passer we have), Pasalic (works so hard defensively and offensively), and Kucka (when on his game, a real powerhouse).

But yeah, I don't disagree with either of you on what Suso CAN bring and of course it's best to have your best at your disposal - but a little spell of bad form should be punished by using someone else, and right now while not shocking, Suso is off his best and a period on the sidelines (albeit this isn't ideal re: circumstance) could actually benefit him anyway.

PS a little harsh on Ocampos - he's another one who's actually done not bad - we weren't half bad with him on Friday.

Hahaha, OMG I had completely forgotten about Niang. What an utter pile of trash that guy was.

He's (Niang) actually doing well in England. Either like Danny says he can't bear the burden of consistency that is required to play in a top club OR he's a slacker who lazes off once he thinks he's 'made it'.

@Danny - I like Bertolacci man. I think he's a clever little passer and dribbler, but what we're missing is that midfield engine to make everything tick. Hence why I'm a huge fan of Milan Badelj. I thought Locatelli would do it, but the boy can't absorb pressure single-handedly.

An interesting note, is how Montella mentioned that he thinks Locatelli could actually play at CB eventually.

Considering how our midfielders are pretty much a bunch of square pegs and we're full of round holes - I'd be okay with your midfield. I'm still hugely in favour of seeing Honda deployed in that midfield three. He has a healthy workrate and pass accuracy - I must be missing something obvious, in case he hasn't been tried before.

Pasalic is average to me, except in the way he makes runs to the box. None of our other midfielders do that as lethally as him - probably thanks to the English influence in his coaching. I however wouldn't play both Pasalic and Kucka together, since defensively I don't trust their positioning (esp Kucka who is out of position and forced to make rash tackles). I would play a confident Locatelli failing which I'd go with Bertolacci in place of either Pasalic or Kucka. Sosa at the moment is untouchable. Having played so little over the season - he's not too fatigued either which is a huge help.

Can someone please explain the locker room issue that Juve has been raising? Did our players really trash their locker room after the game?

I also prefer Bertolacci to Pasalic. As of right now I think our best midfield is Kucka-Sosa-Bertolacci. That being said, they're all very average-to-mediocre players that could very well be starting for teams like Genoa, Sampdoria and other mid-tier clubs.

Unfortunately, Bona's injury was a huge blow. I think with Deulofeu he'd have formed a nice pairing on the left. And now that Suso is injured as well, we're left to cope with scraps.

I'd love to see Locatelli tried as a side mid with Sosa and Kucka. Bertolacci just doesn't impress me at all. He's slow, weak, gets knocked off the ball too easily, and his offensive contributions aren't enough to make up for his liabilities.

The report I heard was someone wrote 'thieves' somewhere in the tunnel - could have been the locker room, could have been the tunnel, but total speculation is it was Bacca. Whoever it was, and if there is any truth in our players trashing their locker room as well, it's totally unacceptable. Emotions did run incredibly high after that one, and I have never been angrier at a Milan loss in my life, but I cannot condone vandalism. We'll get fined, and rightly so. Idiots.

I did note you positing that theory - about young players who think they've hit the zenith at a club like Milan and slacking off purely on the grounds of thinking they've already done everything. Could be real merit in that idea. But there is also a lot to say for the pressure at Milan compared with Watford. Milan is MUST WIN EVERY MATCH and it's a club with unrivalled history and grandeur. So it takes mental strength to cope with that pressure and perform to the best of your ability. Niang is probably unrecognised in London/Watford when he hits the streets, whereas in Milan he'd be getting people in his face (negatively and positively) all the time. That's a whole different world.



Yeah Berto is definitely dividing us. We do need a new Muntari, I guess Berto is the man! I agree totally on the dribbling part of his game, he is surprisingly composed doing that, but it's not what you need in his position. Dribbling is for the wing, or the attack - not deep in midfield. I think his passing is hit and miss. Can be totally off the boil while then 5 minutes later he radars in a microbe in the penalty box. I think the problem is the debate over him sums up Milan - he can do it, sometimes, but mostly he doesn't stand out, and he's way below the level needed for a club like Milan. But he's where we seem to be at right now. I just don't want to see him in our midfield more than I have to.



Honda's problem is he doesn't suit Serie A. He has been a good trequartista for his other teams, be it Japan or CSKA, but the game in Italy is very different and he doesn't read it at all well. We've seen him play him that slot quite a few times for us and he looks lethargic, impaired, and has no vision. Unless you're meaning deeper?



So depressing to be debating between Pasalic, Kucka and Honda when it used to be Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf

TEAM PASALIC! I'm going to be his sole defender on here with pride!



It was a blow but we've been unbeaten in his absence, Juve aside.

Guess time will tell over the next few weeks how we normalise without these guys.

Locatelli is one I believe who struggles with the pressure. I think the lad has talent, but he tailed off in December quite dramatically, as if he realised 'oh sh*t I'm playing for Milan' and suddenly bottomed out.

I like him but I think he's another of the old 'Watford Genoa' syndrome - would look great at a small club but struggles at one like Milan.

I don't buy that at all. I don't think he really tailed off. It was mostly the rest of the midfield that failed. He's not able to be both the defensive shield and sole provider in the midfield. I don't think he should be asked to be that player. I think he'd be much better with a proficient ball mover next to him (if he plays in the middle) or as a side mid with increased license to move forward, make runs into the box, and press.

I don't see that player in him at all. I will say this; we're struggling to actually place his best position, and that is a big problem in itself.

But he WAS extremely good at defensive duties and regista tasks up till December - I find it a bit odd that rather than questioning his disappearance from form, you instead decide all other 8 (?) midfield players are to blame?