THIS is what's so frustrating about Menez!

Menez is so selfish...clearly exhausted after that run and still doesn't pass to open teammates.

Goal Pazzini on the penalty 2-0!

Is it just me or does it not even feel satisfying anymore to see us win...

What to say, very underwhelming performance. We did the bare minimum, and we got the 3 points against a very poor Cesena side. Had it been any other team and this would have been 3x times harder.

Still, at least we looked a bit more balanced and organized with this 4-3-1-2. I guess we have to start from here...

Against a poor Cesena? Hardly.

I can't take anything from that just like I couldn't from the win v Parma.

They are the worst teams in the league by a mile, and in the way Han refused to judge the defence based on a loss to Lazio, you can't judge it (or the team) based on a win against two such horrible, horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE teams.

For me the standout performer was Antonelli. Best signing Pippo made in January, think he's slotted in absolutely superbly and is clearly our best defender right now. Well, of those available. I'm not saying he's Maldini, but he's clearly eased into the role well.

Monto stank. End of.

There's your match day poll already answered Pippo

Ehm, not doing them for the time. I think it got a bit too much of a routine

Agreed about Antonelli, the guy is a very capable player. MOM goes to Bonaventura for me. Poli worked his @ss off as well.

Monto is really what's holding us back. He's just not good enough for a playmaker, and that's where we fail mostly at. If we had someone like, say, Modric, our game would improve threefold.

Never mind Modrić. If we had a Verratti or a Gündogan, hell a Felix (brother) Kroos, we'd be better off. Montolivo is simply put not up to it.

Might I add that Destro was completely AWOL today. Pazzini did more in 25 minutes than he did in 65.

I think if we go by the "if we had A instead if B" arguments we'd be here for days as many of us would prefer someone else over who we currently have in each position.

For me Monto was okay, not good not bad. Just there. He was much worse throughout January.

But to say he's holding us back? Nah, what's holding us back is our coach, and our relatively average to decent players don't help in that regard when we don't have a Mourinho coaching us.

For us to improve we need either 1 of 2 things:
- Bring in a proper coach who's capable of building a team out of these players and getting the best out of them
- Sell every last player and bring in superstars so Pippo can win something thanks to the great player he has

Under this management, both options seem far fetched, but at least the first is a bit more attainable

For me, the flop had to be Menez, focusing on Monto when Menez played like he did for me is a clear double standard. I think Menez needs to sit a game out for all our sakes

You and Monto...

Almost as bad as me and Zapata

This is what I said: "For me Monto was okay, not good not bad. Just there. He was much worse throughout January"

How is that in anyway defending him or praising him?

I thought he was absolutely unwatchable throughout the games he played in January and said so. Today though? No, he was not our worst player, neither our best. He just isn't doing what we're expecting of him and the captaincy is pushing that fact in our face more so.

No Han, he was trash. For his role, he did absolutely jackshit, just simple passes and lost plenty of balls. Such an uninspired player he's turned out to be... Aquilani was miles better. I wish we had kept him.

Um, no Aquilani wasn't better, I think you're altering your recollection because it suites the situation now.

And really, in the midfield today Monto was simply playing the side CM position, just as Poli was.

As I said, he wasn't good or bad, he was just there. He didn't do anything that really influenced play, which I'm assuming is what your problem is with him, and I agree there, but to say he was cr@p is pushing it to put it mildly.

I don't think there were any cr@p performances today out there, obviously that's down to Cesena never really pushing us or troubling us.

The only player I have any gripes with today was Menez, and as always, that's down to his selfishness. He makes an awesome run with Bona running wide open right next to him, instead of passing he beats another man but loses control of the ball and shoots at row Z. And many other occasions where he shot instead of passed, which were just plain frustrating along with our inability to simply close out a game

For me he was, totally. Feel free to disagree.



But that's the main problem here. He's not just your average CM. He's supposed to be the brains of our midfield, the playmaker, the guy who moves the ball and creates chances. So, when I say he was crap it's entirely based on that. You don't expect that sort of thing from Poli, whose main job is to huff and puff, press, win balls etc. which he does fairly well. But Monto fails in his duties, and that's why we all criticize him. Just because he wasn't terrible in the very sense of it doesn't apply here.

Agreed there, but I'd also have to say that when we bought Poli, it wasn't to huff and puff, but he's regressed into that sort of player.

Of course I want more from Monto, and I do criticise the fact that he has not been doing that job. My problem with this is that he usually does do that, even last season when he was mostly struggling for form throughout, he did that, not to the good effect he did in his first season but the point is that he still did. So I don't understand why now he seems reluctant to swing passes but always tends to keep it simple and safe

Aquilani, like so many in our shirt, wasn't really given a fair crack, but for all that he failed to cope with the pressure of being a Milanista (I don't think he had the mental strength to play for us) he offered more than Monto.

He tried, and he did pick out Pirlo-esque passes even if they rarely hit the mark. Those two already make him better. I didn't rate him massively at the time tbh, but then that was in a Milan with much better players in it. In a Milan with way worse players, Monto looks a tenth of what Aqui looked in said better team.

Monto is just complete shite now. He is 30, and clearly past his best. His attitude is rubbish too. But he's a Milan management favourite and will always play.

Look, everyone has got a soft spot or a player he likes. It's time you admit to yourself you like Montolivo and defend him more passionate then some other guys. It's evident.

That being said, Aquilani isn't better nor worse. I remember we had this discussion years ago, and you were nit-picking by saying Aqua is average, Monto above mediocre. May it as it be, I think both suck. Look at Aquilani, he can't get his act together ever since Roma. Montolivo is just a lost cause. A player caught between always being mediocre and always tempting you to show more. But it usually never arrives.

I really don't have a soft spot for Monto. Maybe the fact that I try to play the devil's advocate with him may make it seem that way but I don't.

You know what I personally think this Monto business is? I think people love to hate on him because he's wearing the armband. And in our heads the armband is sacred because that was worn by guys like Paolo and Baresi in the past, and a decade ago we had it in our heads that we had a long line of potential captains ready to take over for when Paolo hung his boots. First it was Sheva, then Rino, Ambro, Pirlo, Kaka, etc. But no, all those players are gone and now it's ended up on the arm of average Montolivo of Fiorentina fame.

So we expect him to rise up to it and fill the boots of those players who were supposed to succeed Paolo. But in reality, Monto was never good enough to wear it, and still isn't. He's captain in name only, we don't really have a team captain. Monto is just another player in this team as far as I'm concerned so why we expect more from him is beyond me.

If you gave me the opportunity to remove him from the squad and bring someone better in, I'd absolutely bite your hand off. But that's not going to happen under these circumstances and that's the reality we're living in.

So why people complain and complain about him is beyond me, it's not like he's benching someone better simply because he wears the armband! It's just like with SES. People complain and complain, expecting him to suddenly become Ibra, simply because he had an amazing 5 months at a young age. He's a young player FFS!! Being played as a winger who's expected to score as much goals as a striker because 5 months gave people unrealistic expectations of him. And because he's not doing that people want him out, say he's cr@p, etc, etc

Iturbe is always the contrary example when you raise SES. Around the same age but clearly living up to his price tag and the expectation. Of course he's not the finished article, but he's having a very good time at Roma.

I refuse to ever give age as an excuse for poor performances. Unless it's a case of an aging player who's past his best.

PS: you would be surprised how much support SES has among the fanbase. He and Rami are two of our most popular players. And they're two of our worst, IMO!

Not for me. Absolutely. Has nothing to do with it.

Maybe, but I kind of feel it.


Maybe, but only to an extent. Look, everyone here knows there's no Baresi, no Maldini or no Billy as the perfect vice. And people like Kaladze, even Rino, wearing the armband got us used to some opposite things.

Anyway, maybe people expect more heart out of him because of the armband (which he fails to deliver as well). But other then that? I don't think so. People expect him to be creative, to make our team smarter, more sharp and with a creative spark. He's failing at that, armband or no armband. He's rarely dangerous, he doesn't make assists, his tempo is not dominant or strong enough to be a metronome. He's simply put inadequate on (too) many levels/aspects.


That's been one of your arguments in favor of Monto for a long time. But thing is, I really think he's pretty much useless and unimportant. Bring in any young talent or player with vision and he'd do more - maybe more bad, but more good as well. Montolivo is the perfect Fiorentina player. Responsible enough not to make terrible mistakes and fatal blows, but never consistent enough to be more then a squad player. And this kind of player we do not need. I'd rather we kept Cristante and given him a full learning season the keep on hanging with this dud, making no real step forward.


People complain because in a terrible midfield fielled with mediocrity and without creativeness, he's perfectly blending in.

What I hear about Monto most, is "he's our captain...".

You say we can bring anyone in that's better but sadly we won't be bringing in anyone that is. If you want to call it an excuse when I say we have no one better coming in, suite yourself but the reality is that we don't.

And Cristante? Really what is he even doing at Benfica nowadays? Because I have not heard one peep about him since we sold him. Even from those who were outraged about it and acting as if we sold the next Xavi.

I guess these are the types of posts that make you think I'm some sort of Monto fanboy, but really, what have I said that is not true?

@ Danny, not all players are the same. Ronaldo spent years at Man U being a 1 trick pony before he really came into his own and started to produce. Zlatan had some horrible months at Juve after a good first few, I remember Juve fans complaining endlessly about Cappello playing him game after game when he wasn't scoring and was a general nuisance to the team while he left ADP on the bench.

I'm not saying SES is remotely anything like them, but comparing him to Iturbe is pointless. First off Iturbe IS actually a winger and is being played as such. He's also playing in a far better team that actually functions and was/is being well coached, both before at Verona and now at Roma.

SES's only real stable coaching came under Allegri for a few months

"Han in 'giving Allegri praise' shocker"

Think I need a lie down

Is it really praise though?

It is a fact that he was the last stable coach SES was under. Then he got injured for most of last season and now with Pippo... I don't think the seniors even know which way is up at this point

The captain thing is just a bonus. It makes people notice Monto more often, while earlier on he usually passed below the radar.

How do you know we won't be bringing in someone new? We simply must. There's no real alternative. Montolivo has been piss poor. The difference with our without him playing is hardly notable. We all waited for him to heal and come back like he's the key ingredient. But in fact, I dare say Milan plays better without him.

Yes, Cristante is very questionable. But at least we'd got an alternative. This now means we're stuck with Monto who himself shows no signs of improvement all season long.

I think the fact that we signed Baselli already shows our "ambitions" for the summer

This is what we always do. We're hopeful before each summer and each summer we're simply let down

That's about the only thing we can do. You wanna take that away as well? What's the point then?

I'm willing to give anyone a chance right now, because you can't be much worse then Montolivo already is.

This is the issue I'm currently having.

He's no worse than Poli or De Jong imo. They all did their job in midfield on Sunday, none of them really stood out to me, so why all this big talk about Monto is beyond me. No he's not doing what we really want ( or in some cases wish) him to be doing but people talk as if he used to give Pirlo/Zavi level performances or that we have a Modric on the bench and Monto is playing just because he's captain.

Wanting better is okay, but wanting that level of performance from a midfielder is pure delusion imo, especially when we have no chance for it.

I really do wish and hope that we get a talent CM in this summer (I think I've said this about a 2
100 times already in the new transfer thread), but atm, we don't have better than Monto and we have to live with that fact

I'd rather have Bona in the midfield three alongside De Jong and Poli than Monto there. Pippo should just drop him. Have Menez and Suso behind Destro and we're good to go.

He was. But in any way, don't you see the difference between de Jong and Monto? Not just in displays, but in position occupied as well. Montolivo isn't a DM, he's our main creative force in midfield, at least he's supposed to be that. Unlike de Jong.

Compared with Poli, Andrea does a better job at creating or trying to create.

Of course I see that, but for me, their performances in general were all on a par. De Jong has been far from great this season as well imo

And Poli? Poli does not create, it's why we brought him sure, but I do feel like he regressed with us. He's now a midfield runner. He huffs and puffs all game long. And it is useful, but it is not what he originally was. Last season he was a lot better in the more limited time he was afforded. I really thought that he was a far more dynamic midfielder but so far he hasn't shown any of the potential he sowed last season

X-off, I agree with you there. I'd love to see Bona in midfield, for either Monto or Poli, doesn't matter all that much to me. However, Pippo seems to view him as an attacker, which is a huge waste

Chievo-Milan probable line-up:

David Lopez; Bonera, Mexes, Paletta, Antonelli; Montolivo, De Jong, Poli; Bonaventura; Menez, Destro.

Mexes and Paletta will probably be worse than Alex Paletta. Is Alex still not fit?

Oh and I'll open the new thread tomorrow as early as I can

Bit out of position ain't he

He's been fit the entire time, Pippo just doesn't want to risk worsening his healing nose and to an extent I can accept that. But that is what faceguards are for.

Blame Sportmediaset, not me.

I don't get it.

They misspelled his name as David. It's Diego.

Good God.