AC Milan - Milanfan.com > Random Milan Stats

kurtsimonw

Apr 18 2013, 10:24 AM

I know some of you guys hate stats, some might find them interesting. This is just mostly for me to dump random findings that I find interesting.
=======================================================================

I'll just repost the midfielders defensive contribution stats here and them compare them when offensive contribution to see if stats can give us a decent idea of who's performing well this season overall regarding numbers.

QUOTE

Muntari makes an average of 2.6 successful tackles per game (Less than Montolivo (3.4), Ambrosini (3.1). More than De Jong (2.4), Flamini (1.9), Nocerino (1.3))

Muntari makes an average of 1.7 successful interceptions per game (Less than Flamini (2.4), Montolivo (1.9). More than De Jong (1.3), Ambrosini (1.3), Nocerino (0.4))

If you use these 2 stats as "winning the ball back", then Montolivo leads (5.3) followed by Ambro (4.4), Muntari & Flamini (4.3), De Jong (3.7) and Nocerino (1.7)

I've used other midfielders as a comparison merely to give the stats relevance. Muntari's numbers on their own could mean anything, but used against players of a similar position gives a clearer picture.

kurtsimonw

Apr 18 2013, 10:33 AM

Offensive contribution: Keeping hold of the ball, using the ball well, creating chances, etc.

QUOTE

Key Passes per game
Montolivo (1.1), Nocerino (0.7), De Jong (0.6), Flamini (0.5), Ambrosini (0.4), Muntari (0.3)

Through balls per game
Montolivo (0.2), Muntari (0.2), Ambrosini (0.1), Nocerino (0.1), Flamini (0), De Jong (0)

Average complete passes per game
Montolivo (65), De Jong (60), Ambrosini (40), Muntari (37), Flamini (35) Nocerino (30)

Passing %
De Jong (93), Ambrosini (87), Montolivo (86), Flamini (86), Nocerino (84), Muntari (84)

Accurate "long" passes (I believe it means of 30+ yards) per game
Montolivo (11.2), De Jong (9.8), Muntari (3.8), Ambrosini (3.7), Nocerino (2), Flamini (1.1)

Successful dribbles per game
Montolivo (1), Flamini (0.6), Ambrosini (0.5), De Jong (0.3) Nocerino (0.2), Muntari (0.2)

Times dispossed per game
Flamini (0.4), Ambrosini (0.6), De Jong (0.7), Nocerino (0.9), Muntari (1), Montolivo (1.4)

Chances created (key passes + through balls)
Montolivo (1.3), Nocerino (0.8), De Jong (0.6), Ambrosini (0.5), Muntari (0.5), Flamini (0.5)

Strength in possession (successful dribbles / disposessions)
Flamini (1.5), Ambrosini (0.8), Montolivo (0.7), De Jong (0.4), Nocerino (0.2), Muntari (0.2)

Passing rating ([passes + long passes] x pass %)
Montolivo (66), De Jong (65), Ambrosini (38), Muntari (34) Flamini (31), Nocerino (27)

kurtsimonw

Apr 18 2013, 11:05 AM

I've finished with 4 categories based on these stats that, basically, sum up a midfielders job overall. Strength in possession (being able to keep the ball, without losing it, before making a pass), your overall ability to pass the ball, chances created and winning the ball back for your team. I've worked out a share for each one then worked the overall number out. The number next to the name is basically an overall midfield effectiveness/contribution out of all of the players mentioned. So 100 would mean that a player is outstanding at every part of the game and overall superior to the others mentioned. Anything less than 50 and you would probably say the rest of the midfielders are carrying them.

1st Montolivo - 97.02
2nd Flamini - 81.40
3rd De Jong - 65.33
4th Ambrosini - 65.18
5th Muntari - 48.33
6th Nocerino - 41.82

It's all incredibly nerdy, I know. But I don't think this is an awful assessment. It tells us that Montolivo is easily our dominant midfielder, that Flamini plays very well, De Jong and Ambrosini do a decent job without making a huge impact on the game and that Muntari and Nocerino are poor.

CHU-LIP

Apr 18 2013, 11:53 AM

I wonder Boateng's stats as midfielder,

William405

Apr 18 2013, 12:05 PM

Hmm, yeah they seem pretty much expressive to the performances our midfielders on the field. Good work!

Zed.D

Apr 18 2013, 12:30 PM

Great job Kurt. he who hates stats hates the truth! these numbers speak for themselves. I must admit Flamini is doing better than I would have expected and I wonder how... must not have paid enough attention to him this season apart from the last two games where he made his presence felt.

kurtsimonw

Apr 18 2013, 01:20 PM

Thanks guys. Flamini was the surprise for me too, but then looking back he rarely seems to play bad when I see him play.

CHU-LIP

Apr 18 2013, 01:24 PM

Flamini is a good player, but he just needs to not do some certain things.

milanbuf88

Apr 18 2013, 02:51 PM

Thanks Kurt! I think your calculations are pretty representative of our current situation. Montolivo is the class of the group and we desperately need to get him worthy partners. My only concern with Flamini, who I admit is doing much better than expected, is that his sample size is fairly small. Also his stupid rash tackling might make his actual impact slightly below his rating.

han2503

Apr 18 2013, 03:30 PM

What do these stats prove exactly?

That Muntari is even worse then an Ambro on his last leg and De Jong who has played a measly amount of games with a new team in a new league??

As for Nocerino, his stats are messed up because he's had a bad season in terms of form but a blind man can still acknowledge that he's the better player and is being ignored out of spite by Allegri because he was improving a lot before he was suddenly benched again when love child Muntari returned from injury

han2503

Apr 18 2013, 03:36 PM

Btw, thanks for the stats kurt, they really show a horrifyingly clear picture about our midfielders. I think the stats for Nocerino are the only ones that don't really illustrate the quality of the player, the other numbers are very spot on imo

CHU-LIP

Apr 18 2013, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 18 2013, 05:36 PM)

Btw, thanks for the stats kurt, they really show a horrifyingly clear picture about our midfielders. I think the stats for Nocerino are the only ones that don't really illustrate the quality of the player, the other numbers are very spot on imo

OMG on Nocerino bit

han2503

Apr 18 2013, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Apr 18 2013, 03:50 PM)

OMG on Nocerino bit

Oh please, you were constantly on his back when he was one of our best players last season and scoring more then most of our strikers aside from Zlatan.

You've always had a weird thing about Nocerino, but you can't deny that he's a good player who's had a rough season which has been worsened by the treatment from Allegri.

X-Offender

Apr 18 2013, 04:21 PM

Yeah, I remember CHU slashing him constantly last season when he was great, so what do you expect him to say now that Noce is an easy target?

kurtsimonw

Apr 18 2013, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 18 2013, 04:36 PM)

Btw, thanks for the stats kurt, they really show a horrifyingly clear picture about our midfielders. I think the stats for Nocerino are the only ones that don't really illustrate the quality of the player, the other numbers are very spot on imo

These stats are just for this season and Nocerino has been terrible which the stats show. But I do agree with you that he is capable of much better than this - as showed last season.

And as for Muntari, yes, it sort of does show that Muntari has little input in our team when he plays.

X-Offender

Apr 18 2013, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 18 2013, 08:51 PM)

And as for Muntari, yes, it sort of does show that Muntari has little input in our team when he plays.

Some people need a 'I told you so' slapped in their faces for defending him.

CHU-LIP

Apr 18 2013, 11:50 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 18 2013, 09:34 PM)

Some people need a 'I told you so' slapped in their faces for defending him.

And others for defending Nocerino.

milanbuf88

Apr 19 2013, 12:33 AM

QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Apr 18 2013, 07:50 PM)

And others for defending Nocerino.

The difference with Nocerino is that we have proof of his ability to play better than he has this season. Muntari has only ever ranged from terrible to almost decent.

CHU-LIP

Apr 19 2013, 12:35 AM

QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Apr 19 2013, 02:33 AM)

The difference with Nocerino is that we have proof of his ability to play better than he has this season. Muntari has only ever ranged from terrible to almost decent.

Meh

X-Offender

Apr 19 2013, 08:35 AM

QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Apr 19 2013, 02:33 AM)

The difference with Nocerino is that we have proof of his ability to play better than he has this season. Muntari has only ever ranged from terrible to almost decent.

That's too much logic for CHU to handle.

CHU-LIP

Apr 19 2013, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2013, 10:35 AM)

That's too much logic for CHU to handle.

Hah!

milanbuf88

Apr 19 2013, 03:11 PM

Haha Kurt any chance you can do the same analysis for last season to help our doubting friend?

CHU-LIP

Apr 19 2013, 03:16 PM

QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Apr 19 2013, 05:11 PM)

Haha Kurt any chance you can do the same analysis for last season to help our doubting friend?

If only

kurtsimonw

Sep 1 2013, 07:05 PM

I'll just reply here instead of cluttering another thread.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 1 2013, 07:33 PM)

Pazzini scored how many goals last season with the non existant Milan midfield behind him and how many goals did Matri score with Juve's world class midfield behind him?

Last season Pazzini scored a goal every 109 minutes, Matri scored a goal every 125 minutes. Pazzini's record is better. But that doesn't really mean Matri's is bad. He scored 8 goals in 1,000 minutes in Serie A which is a pretty great record.

For reference, SES scored a goal every 174 minutes last season. So nearly an hour more per goal than Matri. He's not World class, I don't think anyone is debating that. I think people are here are far too quick to throw around the "mediocre" tag though. Mediocre players don't finish as top scorer for Juventus in a title winning season. He's a good player and will chip in with some goals for us this season - something we desperately need with SES's poor form over the past 6 months and Pazzo injured. We cant just rely on Super Mario.

I can see, and agree with, the arguement that the money could've been used elsewhere (AM), but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.

kurtsimonw

Sep 12 2013, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 12 2013, 12:27 PM)

Just because you rate mediocre players that don't play for Milan very highly and underrate our players does not mean that I have to agree with it, especially when we spend millions we don't have to finance Juve's move for an ACTUAL top player to bring in said mediocre player.

If he's so great explain to me why he's never called up for the Nazionale, why Juve were so quick to sell him at the first decent chance they gor, why Juve fans were foaming at the mouth at the prospect of selling him, why basically 99.99% of Milan fans absolutely cannot stand the fact that we signed him.

A goal every 125 minutes last season is still 8 goals in a total of 22 appearances in the league with 0 assists as well. Osvaldo for example who had a similar number of appearances scored 16 and made 2 assists. Pazzini who had 30 appearances in total (15 of them off the bench) scored 15 and made 3 assists. Emeghara with 7 goals in 17 appearances.

On stats Matri is simply similar to the likes of Gila, and Pinilla. Boriello ad Muriel both did better than him, one not even being a pure striker with the same amount of appearance as Matri.

Worst of all, Alberto Paloshi, who is OUR player had less starts and 7 goals.

Matri - goal every 125

Osvaldo - goal every 145
Paloschi - goal every 183
Muriel - goal every 126
Borriello - goal every 194
Gilardino - goal every 234
Emeghara - goal every 194

You're using stupid logic in "appearances". By your logic, someone who plays 1 minute in 38 games should have a better record than someone who plays 90 minutes in 1 game. That's why minutes are used. Matri's record is better than all those you mentioned - in comparison to the top strikers:

Di Natale - goal every 117
Cavani - goal every 103
El Shaarawy - goal every 174
Klose - goal every 145

So he fits in with the better strikers, comfortably better than the man he'll likely replace in some games this season.

As for Italy, coaches don't always make the correct decisions. Andy Cole barely played for England despite his ridiculous scoring record, it happens. I'm sure when I point out that Abate still has less than 15 caps there will no doubt be some backtracking.

han2503

Sep 12 2013, 06:10 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 12 2013, 05:51 PM)

Matri - goal every 125

Osvaldo - goal every 145
Paloschi - goal every 183
Muriel - goal every 126
Borriello - goal every 194
Gilardino - goal every 234
Emeghara - goal every 194

You're using stupid logic in "appearances". By your logic, someone who plays 1 minute in 38 games should have a better record than someone who plays 90 minutes in 1 game. That's why minutes are used. Matri's record is better than all those you mentioned - in comparison to the top strikers:

Di Natale - goal every 117
Cavani - goal every 103
El Shaarawy - goal every 174
Klose - goal every 145

So he fits in with the better strikers, comfortably better than the man he'll likely replace in some games this season.

As for Italy, coaches don't always make the correct decisions. Andy Cole barely played for England despite his ridiculous scoring record, it happens. I'm sure when I point out that Abate still has less than 15 caps there will no doubt be some backtracking.

Why should I backtrack on Abate? He is someone who took time to find his true identity in football, yet he's only 26, Matri is 29 and has no chance of being in that side. And yeah, every coach in the Azzurri these last decade or so made a simple mistake by avoiding Matri for the NT while guys like Gila get picked regularly, and not just by Prandelli

Also, El Shaarawy got those numbers by playing on the wing, NOT as a striker. Goals per minute is just one way of looking at it nothing more, The other players which are on your first list also have assists to their names (Palo aside) which means they contribute more to their teams. Goals aside, Matri brings absolutely nothing to the team.

Anyway, I know you won't change my mind and I won't change yours on this, let's discuss how he does around January when he'll have played a good amount of games for us and we'll see what he can contribute to the team aside from a couple of poached goals

kurtsimonw

Sep 12 2013, 06:19 PM

You make it sound like goals mean nothing. He's mobile and can hold up the ball, he'll be fine.

CHU-LIP

Sep 12 2013, 06:37 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2013, 10:35 AM)

That's too much logic for CHU to handle.

Yet you seem to agree with me now...

X-Offender

Sep 12 2013, 06:50 PM

QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Sep 12 2013, 08:37 PM)

Yet you seem to agree with me now...

Agree about what? That Nocerino's been crap lately? Even a chair would agree with that. But he did have a great season two years ago, when you kept bashing him regardless.

han2503

Sep 12 2013, 06:52 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 12 2013, 06:19 PM)

You make it sound like goals mean nothing. He's mobile and can hold up the ball, he'll be fine.

He's mobile?? I've watched him MANY times for Juve (can't say the same about his Cagliari years) and he's far from a mobile player, and even for someone who just watched his 20 minutes for us against Cagliari it's clear that he's not a very strong target man - especially in the air - and is far from being mobile. He does certain simple things well but to say that he should be taking SES's spot is just ridiculous.

Goals can mean winning 3 points for your team or making a score line look pretty. I didn't say they don't mean anything, but like I said previously, unless you're Pippo and have some seriously amazing returns, a player like Matri is becoming extinct in football. Simply because their game doesn't offer much else from a couple of goals a season, this is why Gila was sold first and foremost because he had a pretty good scoring record for us

X-Offender

Mar 25 2014, 07:11 PM

We have received €229.5 million from players sold from 2008 till now, more than any other Italian club.

Link

acid911

Mar 25 2014, 08:02 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 26 2014, 12:11 AM)

We have received €229.5 million from players sold from 2008 till now, more than any other Italian club.

No wonder we are in deep shtick, more than any other Italian club.

kurtsimonw

Mar 25 2014, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 25 2014, 08:11 PM)

We have received €229.5 million from players sold from 2008 till now, more than any other Italian club.

Link

I'm logically assuming we've gotten rid of the most wages of any club too. Yet we're still having to sell...

han2503

Mar 25 2014, 09:13 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 25 2014, 09:11 PM)

I'm logically assuming we've gotten rid of the most wages of any club too. Yet we're still having to sell...

We still have the second highest wage bill in the league. Mostly thanks to inflated wages to players who aren't worth it and a pretty large squad. That's why we still have to sell our best each year

kurtsimonw

Mar 25 2014, 09:16 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 25 2014, 10:13 PM)

We still have the second highest wage bill in the league. Mostly thanks to inflated wages to players who aren't worth it and a pretty large squad. That's why we still have to sell our best each year

and our answer is to sign player on a free on inflated wages...

X-Offender

Mar 31 2014, 10:00 AM

With his last two goals, Kaká become our 9th highest scorer ever, and he only needs an additional two goals to reach Santagostino.

Gunnar Nordahl - 221
Andriy Shevchenko - 175
Gianni Rivera - 164
José Altafini - 161
Aldo Boffi - 136
Filippo Inzaghi - 126
Marco van Basten - 124
Giuseppe Santagostino - 106
Kaká - 104
Pierino Prati - 102

han2503

Mar 31 2014, 12:03 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 31 2014, 10:00 AM)

With his last two goals, Kaká become our 9th highest scorer ever, and he only needs an additional two goals to reach Santagostino.

Gunnar Nordahl - 221
Andriy Shevchenko - 175
Gianni Rivera - 164
José Altafini - 161
Aldo Boffi - 136
Filippo Inzaghi - 126
Marco van Basten - 124
Giuseppe Santagostino - 106
Kaká - 104
Pierino Prati - 102

If he scores a couple more this season and stays the next I think he'll surpass Van Basten and maybe even Pippo.

acid911

Mar 31 2014, 12:54 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 31 2014, 05:03 PM)

If he scores a couple more this season and stays the next I think he'll surpass Van Basten and maybe even Pippo.

You mean a couple more seasons, right?

He'll need at least two or more.

han2503

Mar 31 2014, 01:58 PM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Mar 31 2014, 12:54 PM)

You mean a couple more seasons, right?

He'll need at least two or more.

He's 20 short of MvB

3 to 5 more this season and if he's still in good shape the next there's no reason why he can't reach it imo.

X-Offender

Mar 31 2014, 02:10 PM

I can't see him doing that.

han2503

Mar 31 2014, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 31 2014, 02:10 PM)

I can't see him doing that.

We'll see, depends on his physical state more than anything else. He's on 9 in all competitions this season (I think), not 100% sure on that though, so I think it's doable the he scores at least 3 to 5 more this season.

But like I said, it's mostly dependent on his physical state next season.

acid911

Mar 31 2014, 05:18 PM

He's a midfield Han, it is unreasonable to expect Kaka pulling in 20 goals a season.

More so now that he has really aged and our team isn't performing at its peak. He'll get close next year be my bet, and then in 2016 he probably can hit the 127 mark and maybe even the 137.

Either way hard to tell, he just might hit a purple patch or something. But I'm with X-Off here, can't see it.

han2503

Mar 31 2014, 06:23 PM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Mar 31 2014, 05:18 PM)

He's a midfield Han, it is unreasonable to expect Kaka pulling in 20 goals a season.

More so now that he has really aged and our team isn't performing at its peak. He'll get close next year be my bet, and then in 2016 he probably can hit the 127 mark and maybe even the 137.

Either way hard to tell, he just might hit a purple patch or something. But I'm with X-Off here, can't see it.

I'm hopeful like that

I'm not saying he'll score 20 a season

But he's hit 9 this season, and we have 7 games to go. So I don't think that it's completely out of the realm of possibility that he manages 20 between this season and the next should he stay in good physical condition

acid911

Mar 31 2014, 06:32 PM

Let's hope for the best, then.

And I really want to see him climb higher, now that he got a chance to come back. And for me he's been performing almost as well as I expected or wanted. He's 30 plus, after all.

kurtsimonw

Apr 10 2014, 12:16 AM

Milan vs teams in the top half

Wins - 3
Draws - 5
Defeats - 9
Goals scored - 22
Goals conceded - 29
Clean sheets - 3

han2503

Apr 10 2014, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 10 2014, 12:16 AM)

Milan vs teams in the top half

Wins - 3
Draws - 5
Defeats - 9
Goals scored - 22
Goals conceded - 29
Clean sheets - 3

I'm surprised we even have 3 wins...

But I guess it's because it's the entire top half, I think that number would just be reduced to one if the stat was based on just teams above us

CrazyMilanFan

Apr 10 2014, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 10 2014, 10:49 AM)

I'm surprised we even have 3 wins...

But I guess it's because it's the entire top half, I think that number would just be reduced to one if the stat was based on just teams above us

we are 11th.. so everyone in top 10 is above us

Jack Bauer

Apr 12 2014, 10:20 PM

kurtsimonw

Apr 13 2014, 05:10 AM

He's definitly improved recently. Though he needs to stop losing too. Lost as many as Max this season in much fewer games.

Jack Bauer

Apr 13 2014, 07:04 PM

I still can't believe how poorly we performed under Allegri this season, even by his low standards. Even without a coach we should better than 22 points in 19 games.