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X-Offender
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Oct 25 2012, 12:12 AM) *
The team is in a such big psychological hole that with delying the inevitable we will keep digging even a bigger hole.
I hope Galliani and Berlu like what we have become - a big (not funny) joke. They have a big part in it.


I think they've accepted what we've become. You don't see any signs of reaction from anyone.
Jack Sparrow
One last match for Allegri. Then it's time to maybe beat a dignified retreat.
X-Offender
Mediaset suggesting Rijkaard has already been contacted.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 25 2012, 02:26 AM) *
One last match for Allegri. Then it's time to maybe beat a dignified retreat.

Dignified retreat? I think a dignified retreat wagon is long gone by now.
Jack Sparrow
If he leaves now, he can still hide under the "Hey, they completely destroyed my original team,and gave me nothing to work with" and not too many people can blame him.

The flip side is he'll probably end up back in the mid-table clubs. Perhaps Palermo or someplace.
Zed.D
Allegri is definitely not the only one at fault. can't expect an ordinary coach to get us good results with an ordinary team.

Yes we're capable of doing better than this, I remember the pre-season, we weren't bad at all before that damned Madrid game. we still were confident and that's what we hugely lack right now.
GULLIVER
I logged in again to agree with han's comment

"It's not first class but it's certainly not as bad as Allegri is making it look."

i was thinking - ok ok 1 month or 2 months and team will be formed which will play more or less as a Team, but no sh!t - Allegri and especially Galiani and Berlusconi absolutely don't care about the team..
Jack Sparrow
Apparently Allegri says resigning is not his style. Of course not, it's all about ethics and sticking to your duty and totally not the fact that resigning means you forego your severance pay. dry.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 25 2012, 10:14 AM) *
Apparently Allegri says resigning is not his style. Of course not, it's all about ethics and sticking to your duty and totally not the fact that resigning means you forego your severance pay. dry.gif

That's what I was thinking. Of course he won't resign! It's not about morals, it's about the compensation he gets for the ineviatable firing he's about to receive.
acid911
Ah, a man of style, huh?! happy.gif We never can have enough of these guys.
Danny
Not read the post-blues of the thread so no clue what opinions folk have, but...

I actually thought that was our best display of the season. Certainly away from home. While we didn't do sweet FA up front, our defence was good, and we looked pretty composed. Attack was feeble, and midfield didn't really grab the game but I expected a bona-fide trashing and Malaga didn't come close to giving us one.

But, I did say we were NOT playing a 3 at the back and I really wish people would stop saying we're going to play one. IT ISN'T HAPPENING!

Points of note:

1: If Boateng has been useless this season, at least he's tried. The anonymity of Urby was criminal - he had zero impact or even possession. I know he's no right winger but he didn't even pretend to try.

2: Ambrosini should not be selected bar a severe injury crisis. He cannot pass or do anything now. Flamini should have had his slot.

3: Constant. Why? What exactly did he bring to the game?

4: Both FBs had good games - for ones so young they looked pretty comfortable.

5: It was not a penalty and justice was done.

6: SES is a good prospect but as we're increasingly seeing, he cannot come close to carrying the side's attack.

7: Pazzini really needs to stop whining at everyone.

8: But for the one moment of magic Malaga produced, Allegri would have deserved credit for a well-earned point via a team selection no one predicted. I didn't feel Max did a lot wrong last night, even the subs were pretty good and well-timed.

9: Bojan is turning into such a total disappointment.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 25 2012, 03:34 PM) *
But, I did say we were NOT playing a 3 at the back and I really wish people would stop saying we're going to play one. IT ISN'T HAPPENING!


Huh? Of course we were playing with a 3-man defense. And Allegri said we might continue to play with such formation again, so what exactly are you trying to say?
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 03:13 PM) *
Huh? Of course we were playing with a 3-man defense. And Allegri said we might continue to play with such formation again, so what exactly are you trying to say?


We were 4 at the back! Bonera and Mexes with Acerbi LB and DS RB.

If both you and Allegri think that's 3 at the back we're in a shitload of trouble.

And if you're trying to say Acerbi was on the left of a bank of 3 then it was the worst attempt at a back 3 that I've ever seen.
Jack Sparrow
Nah Dan-O...it was a 3-5-2 sort of formation with 2 wingbacks.

In attack:

----Bonera------Mexes-----Acerbi-----
--DS--------------------------Constant--
---------Montolivo------Ambro------
---------------------SES-----------------
--------------Pazzini------------------


But it wasn't exactly like this. In defending, we were defending with 5 as usual. So 3-5-2 in attack, and 5-3-2 in defence. Your usual traditional way.

Things changed a lot in the second half I think. It was almost a 4-2-4. Which is basically Allegri's way of throwing the kitchen sink.


Of course this meant our bank of 3 CBs sometimes spread out a bit. In a way I feel sorry, I mean he's doing everything he can to play to the strengths of Pazzini with more crosses and stuff like that...but...well... nothing's working.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 25 2012, 04:28 PM) *
We were 4 at the back! Bonera and Mexes with Acerbi LB and DS RB.

If both you and Allegri think that's 3 at the back we're in a shitload of trouble.

And if you're trying to say Acerbi was on the left of a bank of 3 then it was the worst attempt at a back 3 that I've ever seen.


You forgot Constant. He was acting as LB, not Acerbi. We were intended to play 3-4-3, but because Malaga crushed us in our own half and because we suck so much, we ended up playing 5-4-1.

And no, it's not just me and Allegri who think that. Mediaset's title after the game was "Joaquin sinks Milan. Allegri's 3-man defense doesn't hold. Malaga win 1-0". And a shitload of articles mention it as well. wink.gif
Jack Sparrow
Tbh...I don't think it was our defence that failed X-Off.

It has been as in the past our offence that's failing. As an Italian coach, Allegri's got our defence drilled pretty decently as far as the timespan of the team and our quality allows. The problem is the same problem he has always had.

The transitions from the zones of defence to mid-field to attack are just not there anymore and well we can't make anything to score.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 25 2012, 04:40 PM) *
Nah Dan-O...it was a 3-5-2 sort of formation with 2 wingbacks.

In attack:

----Bonera------Mexes-----Acerbi-----
--DS--------------------------Constant--
---------Montolivo------Ambro------
---------------------SES-----------------
--------------Pazzini------------------

Who got red?
Jack Sparrow
LOL. Thanks Chu-Lip. I forgot to put in Urby. I don't remember I think he was playing on the right.
Jack Sparrow
And I have to apologise a bit. Apparently his post-match interview was not exactly as reported earlier.

QUOTE
Massimiliano Allegri’s declarations to Sky Italia after the 1-0 defeat to Malaga at the Rosaleda stadium:

“I don’t think that there’s anything to throw away from this match. Currently, it’s the result that counts. We weren’t attentive when they scored. Their goal happened during a moment where they were pressing but they didn’t have any shots on goal before the goal. On those occasions we need to be better at keeping the ball and passing it around. We need to be more direct and clever in the final 30 metres of the pitch.”

“I’m not thinking about being at risk. I must analyse the performance and now we need to the simple things and try to get a result despite a bad performance. We had some great chances today, and they only had long shots in the first half, while we had at least 3 or 4 good chances, but we failed when making the final pass. But Malaga is a good team and if you leave them too much space, then they will punish you.”

“We have been thinking about using a 3-man defence for a while now. We’ve also tried it in the past, but then I went off it. I thought that we could be better at passing the ball around with this formation seeing as Malaga were pressing very well. We did well in the first half but in the second half we made too many misplaced passes.”

“The strikers? I can only make them as calm as possible by pointing out the good things that they did tonight, but we need to improve offensively. It was the first time that we played this way, but we will improve.”

“On Saturday we have a very important match in Serie A against a club who’s not in the same position as we are and who will give us a hard time.”

“If I want to leave Milan? Absolutely not. I’m not the type that leaves when it gets difficult. I have a lot of faith in my players. I believe that we will rise again in the Serie A. In the Champions League, we’re still in the race to qualify for the knock-out stage, but like I already said: it’s a very balanced group.
We’re optimistic with regard to Serie A. We have delivered some great performances and we will get back on the right track, because things must get better.”

We will continue with the 3-man defence, which is also because we need more security and coverage defensively, but we could change the tactical set-up during the match. We can do better with this tactical set-up than we’ve done before”, declared Allegri.


Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 03:43 PM) *
You forgot Constant. He was acting as LB, not Acerbi. We were intended to play 3-4-3, but because Malaga crushed us in our own half and because we suck so much, we ended up playing 5-4-1.


I didn't forget him, he just appeared to do nothing on the left of midfield.

QUOTE
And no, it's not just me and Allegri who think that. Mediaset's title after the game was "Joaquin sinks Milan. Allegri's 3-man defense doesn't hold. Malaga win 1-0". And a shitload of articles mention it as well. wink.gif


This pdf makes for interesting viewing:

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2013/2009525_tl.pdf

It agrees with you all that we did play a 3 at the back but disagrees with you regarding Constant. And so do I.

Still, it looked quite clearly to me like a 4. Which gives some idea of how badly our backline is organised these days. That said I still thought it had a good game, no matter what formation we disagree on.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM) *
Tbh...I don't think it was our defence that failed X-Off.

It has been as in the past our offence that's failing. As an Italian coach, Allegri's got our defence drilled pretty decently as far as the timespan of the team and our quality allows. The problem is the same problem he has always had.

The transitions from the zones of defence to mid-field to attack are just not there anymore and well we can't make anything to score.


Agreed.
Rossoneri7
I really do miss Seedorf.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 25 2012, 08:10 PM) *
I really do miss Seedorf.


I miss Ibra and Thiago, not Seedorf.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 25 2012, 05:35 PM) *
I didn't forget him, he just appeared to do nothing on the left of midfield.



This pdf makes for interesting viewing:

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2013/2009525_tl.pdf

It agrees with you all that we did play a 3 at the back but disagrees with you regarding Constant. And so do I.

Still, it looked quite clearly to me like a 4. Which gives some idea of how badly our backline is organised these days. That said I still thought it had a good game, no matter what formation we disagree on.


It disagrees with me about Constant? I'd say it fully agrees with what I said. From those schemes, you can clearly see that Constant is playing on the same line with De Sciglio, even more retracted for that matter. Come on man, it's a clear 3-4-3! Look more closely. Sheesh...
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 07:19 PM) *
It disagrees with me about Constant? I'd say it fully agrees with what I said. From those schemes, you can clearly see that Constant is playing on the same line with De Sciglio, even more retracted for that matter. Come on man, it's a clear 3-4-3! Look more closely. Sheesh...


Same line with De Sciglio? How does that prove your argument? They both played on the flanks. How does that prove your point that Constant played as an LB? It shows to me it's a 3-4-3 and DS and Constant are playing as right and left prongs on a midfield 4.

I didn't say it wasn't a 3-4-3, indeed I willingly admitted to you, despite what a mess it was on the pitch, that it's been projected by all as a 3-4-3.

I just said Constant wasn't a LB. WB maybe, but not one who got back a lot.
X-Offender
Hah, when I said LB, I obviously meant as part of the midfield wingers. Call it WB if you like. Little misunderstanding there. wink.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (GULLIVER @ Oct 25 2012, 11:26 AM) *
I logged in again to agree with han's comment

"It's not first class but it's certainly not as bad as Allegri is making it look."

i was thinking - ok ok 1 month or 2 months and team will be formed which will play more or less as a Team, but no sh!t - Allegri and especially Galiani and Berlusconi absolutely don't care about the team..

Well, do try log in more often. I remember you as a sharp and good poster from the old MF times, back then in the Carletto days.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 25 2012, 08:10 PM) *
I really do miss Seedorf.

That makes two my friend smile.gif
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 08:57 PM) *
Hah, when I said LB, I obviously meant as part of the midfield wingers. Call it WB if you like. Little misunderstanding there. wink.gif


Ha smile.gif that said for a wing back he seemed to spend most of his time on the half way line barely involved in the game.
Danny
Loving all the pro-Seedorf stuff when he was one of the most vilified figures in our dressing room in decent seasons.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 09:12 PM) *
I miss Ibra and Thiago, not Seedorf.


... to his defense he had already won the CL 3 times in 4 CL finals when he was in their current age - 30 to 28 age bracket. While they have not. It is a matter of experience that we lack, more than a stellar striker or the best defender in the world.

But to each his own opinion wink.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 25 2012, 02:40 PM) *
Nah Dan-O...it was a 3-5-2 sort of formation with 2 wingbacks.

In attack:

----Bonera------Mexes-----Acerbi-----
--DS--------------------------Constant--
---------Montolivo------Ambro------
---------------------SES-----------------
--------------Pazzini------------------


But it wasn't exactly like this. In defending, we were defending with 5 as usual. So 3-5-2 in attack, and 5-3-2 in defence. Your usual traditional way.

Things changed a lot in the second half I think. It was almost a 4-2-4. Which is basically Allegri's way of throwing the kitchen sink.

Of course this meant our bank of 3 CBs sometimes spread out a bit. In a way I feel sorry, I mean he's doing everything he can to play to the strengths of Pazzini with more crosses and stuff like that...but...well... nothing's working.

Can't agree Jack.

It was a clear 3-4-3 on the pitch, a total mess of an attempt but it was a 3-4-3

It basically looked like this

Mexes--Bonera--Acerbi
DS--Monto--Ambro--Constant
Urby--Pazzini--El Shaa


However, the problems were endless with it, and sure we managed to hold them at bay by deploying a basic mid-table team, park the bus approach, but does that really mean that the defence was working? No, it was mostly the players doing what they could to keep the cleansheet at times. There was no clear tactical plan in terms of how we should be defending, or as you so rightly put it in a later post how to transition from the defence to midfield to attack. The tactics are just non-existant at this point, which is why when I read that Allegri wants to continue with a 3-man defensive system I want to cry out in agony, because the man has absolutely no clue as to how to deploy such a system.

@ Danny, You're wrong when saying that it was 4 at the back, because it was a very clear 3-4-3 shape on the pitch, however you are 100% right in saying that it was the weakest attempt at deploying a 3-man defense in history. Because that's what it was. Sure you can put out a formation, I could be the coach of Milan myself if all it takes to occupy that position is to spew out a formation and send the players on! But the key is in how you approach that formation and what tactical plan you have for using that formation, and it was clear that there simply was no plan.

And I repeat, no we did not look defensively sound, defensively sound means that the defense is working properly and coheisively as a WHOLE unit, not a bunch of guys throwing their bodies around, because that is what was happening yesterday. That's not what you call a good attempt at fixing our defensive problem, that's called asking for your @ss to be handed to you should you come up against better opposition
Jack Sparrow
You can't put that blame on Max tbh. biggrin.gif

Gee han....I think till one of us dies, we shall play this drama all over again. You attacking the coach, and me saying, "Hey, he's not all bad!". biggrin.gif

Anyway back on point, I think that this is probably the first time in 11 years that Milan has played with 3 at the back. There was bound to be miscommunication, and of course the players not being used to it, meant they were out of position and rushing to cover- meaning not only last ditch tackles but also getting fatigued.

For me, a 3-4-3 with wingers instead of wingbacks is a bit silly and unbalanced. If we are going to play 3 then I would:

-----Yepes----Mexes----Zapata-----
Abate------------------------------Urby
------Monty----dJ------Noce/Prince---
-------Bojan/Pato-----------SES/Robinho-------
-----------Pazzini/Pato-----------------


Who would have thought start of the season that SES would be the first name on the team sheet. biggrin.gif

The above formation is the most balanced I can think of. It is a little weak down our right flank, because if Monty is busy doing creation, we are a bit open to a counter. But Abate is our strongest wingback since Cafu... so rolleyes.gif

Finally, if Allegri is staying:

- Europe is not optional.
- He needs to decide really quickly what his chosen formation is.
- Because we have to buy in December based on that. Oh yeah Unc. Fester. That's not optional too.
- If we're sticking with the 4-3-1-2, then I guess we're stuck because we need to buy in at least 3 top players, and outlay of at least 35 million.
- If we're going to stick with the above, I would probably get someone in that mid-field who is truly magical even if we need to splash out 20. After that hope to get into Europe with all our might.
Zed.D
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2012, 10:42 PM) *
I miss Ibra and Thiago, not Seedorf.


thumbup.gif
X-Offender
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 26 2012, 11:08 AM) *

-----Yepes----Mexes----Zapata-----
Abate------------------------------Urby
------Monty----dJ------Noce/Prince---
-------Bojan/Pato-----------SES/Robinho-------
-----------Pazzini/Pato-----------------


Really Jack, 12 players?
X-Offender
Milan-Genoa tomorrow. Anyone care to open a thread?
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 26 2012, 05:00 PM) *
Really Jack, 12 players?

He's making up for that time he forgot one (Urby), I guess.
X-Offender
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Oct 26 2012, 05:12 PM) *
He's making up for that time he forgot one (Urby), I guess.


laugh.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 26 2012, 05:00 PM) *
Really Jack, 12 players?

Naah, Jack is just suggesting the legendary Hungarian tactic of the 1920's with a player-goalie (Mexes) tongue.gif
Jack Sparrow
Err yeah...exactly. smoke.gif

laugh.gif I'm just not gonna post tactics for some time. Lol. My brains' not in it when I'm at work.
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