^ Thanks.

I'm currently reading that article,but something I noticed is a cycle(that most of you know).We sell a big player every two,three seasons to cover the loss,in the meantime we would either buy some cheap bargains(a la Ibra) or Brazilians with high potential,so we can sell them on a profit.So,I ask the question.How is selling Thiago Silva,and Ibra any indication of a restructuring of the club to become self sufficient?Can't it be just a start of another vicious cycle?

i already posted a link to that!! nice to know people are reading my posts....NOT!

@mishie not intentional my friend, but i went through it vigoriously when a friend emailed me the link.. And it was so well written, very interesting indeed.

@William, we only started selling players when their value appreciated and so did the wage on offer by the other clubs. Chelsea-Sheva at GBP30MM (some EUR40M at the time), City/Madrid-Kaka at EUR60MM (previous offer EUR100MM), PSG Silva/Zlatan at EUR70MM.. And what wages tempted them to make the switch?

Milan's most expensive purchase was Rui Costa at 30MM and that was at the turn of the millenium. We bought them through got a few titles along the way, we can not match what the market is offering them, so we sell. Milan ran at a loss to maintain the quality, as much as Berlusconi tried to support the club last title being in 2011, Milan can not depend on him anymore. So that wage bill that used to be payrolled from Silvio no longer stands (60MM to cover losses & transfer fees that brought in players). The club has to live within its own means now..

So to answer your question, its was a vicious cycle, something that had forced us to sell. We don't feel it, because we are the end users of this product Milan. We want it to be one of the pillars of European football, as we all knew it. But external forces do not support our ambitious appetite anymore berlusconi, an arab or chinese, doesnt make a difference this Milan has to bear tough times now. If a bid of 30MM comez for KPB followed by wages of 6MM consider him gone. Unless KPB deckined the massive pay increase and pledged his love for Milan. Ala Paulo Maldini.

Then again, Silva&Ibra could very well be the last of these mega deals on offer in the market, if FFP is followed through, come 2015 Milan could be in a better position than what we are on now.

Just read your post jack and then skipped to this page...havn't seen all of the replies yet. Anyways, brilliant work.

Wow, thank you for the detailed breakdown, Jack!

I think the major thing to look at is the risk of missing out on top 3 though. Sure, we could get there, but considering how tight our income is right now as you say, rolling the dice on getting ~39m or not getting it sounds foolish to me. Our squad is so thin on quality, a couple of key injuries here or there can easily derail that goal...and we all know about injuries at Milan!

Then, there could be future effects of missing out - lower sponsor interest, less gate revenue, players bailing, etc. By the time FFP does come into play, we might not be able to compete and qualify anyways (well maybe for Europa). Is Silva and/or Ibra the difference between qualifying or not? Of course there is no clear answer now.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens, cross our fingers, and hope for an overachieving, grinding out results type season like we had with Leo after Kaka and Maldini left. There's no use crying over spilled milk.

Milan Group results for FYE2012, our results are as follows:

-Revenue EUR329.3MM (2011: EUR266.2MM).
-*Operating Profit EUR5MM (2011: EUR74.2MM Loss)
-Net Loss EUR6.9MM (2011: EUR67.2MM Loss)

*Operating Profit comes after paying core operations of the group, wages inclusive.


UEFA start monitoring teams qualifying in its competitions from the 2013/14 season. And this will take into account losses that were accounted for in the two perceeding years (2011/12 and 2012/13). This will be known as the first monitoring season (2013/14, 2013/12 & 2012/11) and UEFA will allow for an aggregate loss of EUR45MM.

Milan so far have aggregate net loss of EUR74.1, while Uefa will only allow EUR45MM for the first monitoring season. Second monitoring season would exclude season 2012/11 reaults .. So on and so forth. As illustrated below:

So basically we've sold everyone and we're still doing crap in regards to FFP.

Why do they have to take into account the two preceding years? Stupid.

Does anyone have a breakdown of our finances? I know R7 posted the basic outlines before which resulted in a 7m loss, just curious as to where the money has gone.

To mitigate the risk of having huge losses in one season, they average it out over a span of three years so clubs have a chance to recover losses and remain within the parameters set forth in the matrix table above.

@Filippo: Since season beginning, Zed, Blue, R7 and I have been saying 5 years. You don't create business models just like that. We cannot expand our revenue streams so easily, because unfortunately the wise men in Serie A are not as far sighted as the boys in the BuLi.

Our goals next season? Here is what it is:

On paper, Galliani will talk about being competitive and about challenging for the scudetto and going 'as far as possible in the CL'. He will know that the truth is with some signings and assuming that there are no injuries; in other words a perfect season we can challenge. Otherwise expect him to cite misfortune and various other factors when we do lose out on the scudetto.

In reality -

1. The project of re-building the team by cutting off excess and bringing in VFM players with the odd quality player will continue. This will continue for another 2-3 years before we finally have a good solid spine of players we can rely on. I don't discount the possibility of a couple of marquee signings in the interim.

2. The targets will be to consistently finish in the CL places. Take advantage of any slip up by the other teams to make a scudetto run. Coppa Italia will continue to be neglected.

3. Keep working on commercial deals. Nothing will develop on the stadium front until Inter waive rights to the Siro.


For the upcoming season, 2nd to Juve will be accepted. We cannot be at risk to Fiorentina as we were this season though, and my guess is that signings will be made to ensure it doesn't happen.

Milan will not be a true challenger till 2016-2017. There is no way. We are not in the dark ages, but something akin to a limbo.

How much of an advantage does Juve's own stadium give them over us? Like, are we talking 10m, 20m, 50m?

If we were to say average ticket price is EUR45/-, with the stadium occupancy to be 41K (ie sold out), 19 home games. Juventus are expected to make EUR35MM per season just from those domestic 19 home games.

This does not include CL matches where prices are likely to be higher and other events organized in the stadium throughout the year and off-seasons.

Depending how far they go in Europe (ie home games) and non-football related events in the stadium, its safe to say they could reach well over EUR45MM just from their own stadium.

Less expenses, don't know how much their expenses are on the stadium, but you could say easily EUR40MM as net income from their stadium alone.

Do we not get anything from the San Siro then? Or is what we make basically counter-weighted by the cost of rent?

I think that at times we'd end up paying more considering the only times we manage to fill it up are the KO CL ties, and unlike in the past those type of games are very few during a season (1 or 2 if we're luck and get to the quarters)

Great post jack +1


We have to be patient.


Right now we have some of the best youth in our grasp. A couple days ago Serie B's president said saponara, jorginho and regini are some of the best talents in the league. Those 3 are essentially in our grasp.

Saponara is quality, I think he will start in our team.


---

We have DS, SES and Balo who don't need any more discussion. We cristante who will surprise many of you this season. Niang is only 18 and can only get better. Salamon is 21.

our targets:

Regini 22
Jorginho 21
Poli 23


This team is young, incredibly young.

The rebuilding is being done right. They are getting italians which is vital to our clubs growth and they are targeting youth who are good but don't have the superstar profile yet.

5 years and this team will be scary. The best part of it is, we don't even have to sell players as we don't have any debt.

True, true. He can't get any worse, that's for sure, the prick.

You can't say that. Five years is a long time, who knows what will happen until then. Just because we're pursuing a certain policy doesn't mean everything will turn out fine. It might very well backfire, badly.

Sadly we needed 3rd this year and next year for the foundation to be in place. After that we won't need the money as bad

Not really. In five years time Bluesummers will probably be the head coach of Milan, and everything will turn out fine. Besides, it's not like we've not been to the depths of hell before. Finishing fifth, losing out on CL in the round of sixteen, and all that. Besides, the numbers that are published are not usually the ones that play behind the curtains.

For now though, we should keep calm and trust In Blue. Just In Blue.

Yup, who knows ... ?For all we Know Allegri could be a CL winner with Milan in five years time

If I didn't know you better I'd say you're taking the piss out of me.



Or training Grosseto in Serie B.

more likley the latter

Apparently Juve's for 12/13...

Revenues
283m

Costs
300m

Net result
(17m)

Net debt
160m

Equity
47m

Is that as of June 2013 Kurt?

I'm not entirely sure, I saw it posted on the Juve forum I looked at. The source he gave was a big pdf in Italian so I have no clue what it says.

FFP doesn't take debt into account, does it?

Certain types of debt are exempt. Stadium debt payments I believe are exempted. Not certain though.

Capital expenditure, such as stadium, training grounds, headquarters and the likes are exempt. In addition, clubs can have debt on their books to fund cash-flow deficits, only if the debt is sustainable and that clubs can cover principle and interest installments by way of its operations.

From football-italia:

Juve had a net loss of 35m on transfers, a large increase in wages and still decreased their loss by 30m on the previous year.

The only thing that's made that possible is the CL money, they got a huge sum last season better than Bayern, Real and Barca. Without it they'd still be in deep sh!t even with their own stadium.

Why did they get more than the rest? And they'll be getting CL every year now so it won't be an issue.

Because there was only us and them in the CL last season from Serie A, so the money was split between a smaller amount of teams.

Yeah, it won't be a problem but it goes to show how much better numbers WE can have if we did have our own stadium. We have a wage bill similar to theirs, earned less money last season from the CL and don't have our own stadium.

A small correction. Our own stadium wouldn't solve the problem as much.

In fact if we could just fill in our existing stadium it would help. Our problem is that the San Siro is antiquated and uncomfortable.

If it's in a better shape, I'm sure we could have more people show up, including families. But I think that will not happen till 2014.

What Italy needs is a world cup. That would truly rejuvenate the stadium quality.

Couldn't agree more, a world cup is an excellent way of bringing life back to calcio.