I share your enthusiasm, Ry. But when has hope counted for much in these times? The only way he'll come back is if he gets a guarantee of playing time. If not, then I don't think he'll abandon his new found fans and countrymen friends, if it comes down to him. Every match I watch, Gourcuff seems more and more happy and confident.

Still I can only hope things work out between all parties. If he has to, he will.

agreed

I don't agree with the bold part though, each one of those players has their own unique ways of taking a freekick andd all are great at it. As far as I'm concerned this is a problem that I'm happy we have, it keeps the opponents on their toes not knowing who is going to take it, therefore it give us the element of surprise.

I think Dinho is better at taking them when they are near the edg of the box, Pirlo better at the ones that are at longer distance and Beckham can take them from anywhere because of the way he bends them.

Like I said this is a great problem to have, let's not complain about it


The sprint and change of pace is more of a Ronaldo quality, the finish reminded me of some of the old Sheva shipped goals back in the day.

It's great to see Pato coming into his own, I think that huge hole that Sheva left behind when he went to Chelsea is finally filled now after so many miss-hits


Rijkaard, Spaletti, Prandelli. I think all 3 would be good options.

I still don't like the tactical makeup of the squad.

Borriello was a big investment this season, and he was meant to be a lynchpin, yet he has been completely useless. (I don't mean in the gameplay, but he hasn't been able to contribute)...and this has affected us a lot. And what's worse, they are not the kind of long-term injuries you can plan for. He gets fit, he plays a match (without match fitness) and then gets injured for another 3 weeks. Rinse repeat.

And we have exactly the kind of team makeup that requires a target man. The presence of Pato as a sole attacker means, now we're dependent of playing balls to his feet, which work if we are given space.

I'm starting to think we really should get a new target man. So many crosses being whipped in, with no one who can really worry the defenders.

By the way it's funny have all of Roma's injury woes and how they're weaker was put up coz they didn't have Totti. The other players missing were Tonetto and Menez.

We don't have Nesta, Bonera, Kaladze, Gattusso, Ambro(half fit), Borriello. It isn't funny anymore. These injuries are worrying, their frequency even more so. You can't get any consistency if your key players keep getting knocked out. And none of them are our much criticised 35+ year olds senile retirement home inmates. In fact I find it ironic that Favalli and Maldini have so far been our fittest players in the defence.

So far in our squad the only consistent players have been Kaka, R80, Seedorf, Pato and Abbiati. Is it any wonder that our defence and mid-field are in relative shambles with no consistency.

What's happening with MilanLab.


@han2503:

Prandelli: A good coach for the long term. But coaches from Viola haven't worked as great for us, because of the sudden rise. It's like going from the Sundance Festival to the Oscars. But Prandelli is certainly a good coach, and has earned respect here. But don't forget, the kind of pressure he will face will be unbelievable. At Fio, he's kinda like Wenger with carte blanche. Not in Milan. 7 years and Carletto can't do what he likes. Besides I don't like Prandelli's European credentials one bit. Frankly I think they're bad.

Spalletti:For me the best of the bunch. But why would he come? Especially with the kind of faith and support the board and the players have shown him. But Milan is the logical next step. He's worked with a few stars, so can handle them. He has a good personality, he's young as well. But his negatives, are his teams are seldom able to graft like a typical Italian side should. Which also explains why his record against English sides is abysmal. I don't think his team are capable of dealing with full blown in your face athleticism. And he's nowhere near the CL master that Carlo is. Spalleti could never do that 3-0 against Manchester. Not with that team, in that state of mind, and that much pressure.

Rijkaard: Best European pedigree, but as I'm beginning to suspect useless for a long term project. He's one of those 'sing when you're winning' types. Also not as tactically astute or as great a manager as the earlier two. Let's not forget that he'll be meeting up with Ronaldinho. Of course the big plus is he's ex-Milan. Which automatically puts you in contention for the job. I still think MvB is slightly better than him, but it's my gut feeling. We'd have to have an even playing ground.


What I mean is for me, all the above coaches are going to have the Scolari effect. An initial honeymoon, when it will seem like all of the old problems have been resolved, and then hard reality sets in, leaving people wishing for the older days.

For big clubs, it's always best to bring in someone who came from the 'system'. Rather than having someone build a whole new one. In the case of Inter, there's an exception. They have NO system. So it was perfect for Jose.

I'd like to think I was wrong but carlo has been doing this for too long now.

Bring him back and give him Seedorf's position and drop R80 for Flamini.

@ Jack: I agree with you about the mentioned manangers available but what about Lippi? carlo said he would love to manage Italia so a swap would be possible, and IMO Lippi would be the best choice.

Also wouldn't a target man nullify Ricky? If we were playing long balls then we wouldn't be able to utillise Ricky's pace. What we need is pace and the abillity to counter attack like we used to, unfortunately we have too many slow players now(Seedorf, R80 etc) and when we have the chance to counter we end up turning back and giving the defending team time to organise.

I fear the answer will be Roberto Donadoni, which would be drasticall after 7 years under Ancelotti. The three coaches above, as we see, have their pro and cons.

My solution would be Costacurta in 2011 - after he get's Serie A experience. But I'm not sure. What about Tassotti? He's been a while under Ancelotti, he has experience and...maybe could just do it.

Anyway, don't think it's time yet for the move.


Exactly. You know, it's been really a while since we could guess our starting formation. And not because our coach like to mix and rotate a lot. This injury situation is getting worse and worse. We're soon be the Werder Bremen of Italy. Some players that were expected to make a sudden impact did just fail out. It's frustrating.

As far as I see it, this 2-2 is a result of our defensive trouble. No typicall DM's wasn't the real issue. The stats speak for itself - we are the only team in the top 5 that has conceeded so many goals (20).

Anyway, I think we're coming close to a final ending of our struggle. I've seen many of those Milan comebacks in the past to be experienced and confident enough to predict one. Even if this season goes lost with us ending up 3rd (I'd rather that we end 3rd then 2nd, you get were I'm coming from?)...next season should be a perfect one - with or even without Ancelotti. Only real trouble is Milan Lab.

I don't like the assumption that Carlo is the only coach on planet that can coach Milan and that everyone who replaces him will fail! I don't think he's irreplaceable at all. in fact I think a new good coach will be enough of a shock for our players to start playing like they should again.

It needn't nullify. It just provides us more options. See, now teams realise they can just crowd Ricky and Pato out.

The pace and counterattack is useful, but to have it as our only weapon is useless. We don't have too many slow players. Pirlo's game is not based on carrying it forward at pace neither is Beckham's. That's not their role either. Ronaldinho and Seedorf are more of playmakers than goalscoring forwards. And Carlo is still not happy with the way R80's integration is coming. He's said it in the interview himself, that R80 still has adapting to do.

Pato and Kaka are meant to be the fast guys, while Borriello is the added threat to take people off from nullifying Pato and Kaka with a double team.

See, if the ball is with Becks or Pirlo or Seedorf, the defenders now know that they can crowd out Kaka, and block Pato (which is easy if you're parking the bus)...but throw Borriello in it as well, and now they don't know whether the ball is going to be played to the feet or up in the air.

The target man is a desperate requirment now. With our defence in shambles, the teams will park the bus and hit us on counters even for our away matches.

Maybe. But I heard a eerily similar statement from someone(not on this forum obviously) when Capello left. And it only took us like 7 years to get back on our feet again.

What we need is not a rebuilding. We need someone who can take us to the next level, and for me those options are limited. You just need to look at Carlo's CV. For instance, it makes sense to hypothetically replace a UEFA cup winning coach with a CL contending coach. (For instance, Ramos with say Rijkaard). How do you replace Carlo?

I think the answer would be to pull a curve ball. If he must be replaced, we need someone fresh, with new ideas, who is entirely 'virgin'.

That's what usually works.

For eg. In the olden days, Sacchi was replaced by Capello (who was a nobody at the time, just a fresh coach)
Recently I can think of Guardiola replacing Frank.

Like I said, the benefits of brining in someone new, yet someone familiar with the system. Because you see the machine is not broke, it doesn't need rebuilding. It did when Carletto came in @ 2001. It did when Mourinho went to Chelsea, coz a whole new animal was being built. Same with Frankie @ Barca and Ranieri @ Juve. But after that to have a new system is to risk massive failure.

I see what you're saying and do agree in parts, but I also remember the lightning quick counters we used to be able to make with Ricky and Sheva(when he was Sheva ), we scored a lot because of them IIRC. I think one of the main problems is our defence is far too soft and can't be relied upon(hence the 20 goals conceded). Secondly I think we miss the maurading(sp?) runs of Cafu along with Ricky and Sheva etc as now when Seedorf or R80 get the ball they usually turn back and our attack stops and gets labourious(is this a word?).

That is also a massive gamble as well. The difference with Don Fabio was that he had balls and what he said went, whereas carlo just says yes. I remember Silvio doing all he could to tempt Fabio to stay even though Fabio was so set in his ways. That is why we need someone who is singleminded and who know what they want, they also need full backing from the management.

Agreed. While I think Pato replaces Sheva in your lineup. (And as per Carlo, Pato is potentially the greatest striker in the world ). The fullback situation is spot on. We have nothing from our fullbacks anymore. Forcing Carlo to put more pressure on the mid-field to create.



And Guardiola? Remember he wasn't Don Fabio to start with. His first stint with us, gave him that title. Yes, he's a personality. He was a different personality. Which is what I'm saying we need.

The ways of Capello though are a little difficult. Remember what R99 said when he came here, about how Capello should realise the old ways are dead. Players no longer depend on the team, they know the market means they can just up and leave. Never has the player had so much power in the club as he has now. Capello is perfect for the NT. Coz, it's not like Rooney can say, gimme the day off or I'll put in a transfer request. If Capello drops Rooney, that's it. There's nothing that can be done. He's exactly what those mollycoddled Pommies need.

Look how R99 has turned out....

IMO the best managers are the most disciplined as they usually get the best out of their players. If the player can't handle the discipline then he's surely not good enough to play for said team and should really up and leave.

I personally think R99 turned out really well for Milan, except for the injuries, which are neither his nor the coach's fault.

IMO he never really fulfilled his true potential. I realise that he suffered with very bad injuries but his lifestyle was what did the most damage, a strict manager would have put a stop to it.

What irritates me the most is that we will probably trash fiorentina next week and merda will win too, and as soon as they slip up , so do we .

Its like last year with fiorentina , to think about the silly points we lost ...


@ I _rossoneri : I dont believe Pirlo is a good free kick taker at all , with no R80 last season he tried and tried and tried , and once in a while the ball went between the posts. Im not fooling myself and neither should he . Between Becks and R80, i wouldn't care . But he should just stay away concerning free kicks. Also , whats i noticed is that he is slowing our game down. Just look at janku , powering himself forward , while pirlo just tries endlessly for that perfect cross again and again. I dont believe in giving players a free ride just what they did a few years ago and I do realise now , that Pirlo is starting to become a weak link in our team.

So d@mn slow with everything and we even need kaka to come and pick up the ball in our own half to start the attack...

^^^



Et tu Nova! Then fall Jack Sparrow!!

m1ke...I'm tendering my resignation!!

hey heyyyyyyyy , im still one of the good guys its just between me and pirlo

You have got some good points there and TBH I agree partly. As for Pirlo I believe he is played far too deep hence always looking for the perfect pass. The biggest problem is Seedorf, bench him and give someone else his position(Pirlo?) and play Flamini to give us cover at DM.

And as for R80, I am yet to see him add anything to our play other than the occasional freekick or pass. And I feel playing both Ricky and R80 stifles Ricky, and Ricky is the player we should play around, he is our jewel in the crown

You mean in general or just yesterday ??

Starting to become in general. The most frustrating point is that on his day he is one of the best in the world but he seems to pick and choose which games he wants to play in. That is why I would drop him first.

But we cannot bench Ronaldinho, he's a jersey-seller...

What a sad state of affairs, we are getting more like circus by the day!

Much as it pains me to say it, I Rossoneri, I think we're already there.

I have criticized Pirlo sometimes, but I don't remember if any of them was related to his pace and whether it's slowing down our game. now in Pirlo's defense, I have to say I don't think he's slow! it's his role that makes him slow. he just can't be useful as a deep lying playmaker anymore, it's over, he's lost it. now he needs to change his position and play further up front, like the World Cup. you can see he still has something to offer when he goes forward once in a while.

But he can't do that with #32 on the pitch.

Hopefully the #32 will be long gone before the start of the new season!

I wouldnt say a circus , this is still my beloved Milan we're talking about here !!

All im saying , it wouldnt hurt benching the players who dont perform and are only playing cause what they did before.

Seedorf IMO , should be benched cause of his terrible performance yesterday and wasting that golden oppurtunity in the end , wich was a great chance if he just let it go to ambro. Its a shame , cause he is technically one of the best players we have.

Pirlo , cant remember him the way he was , he was match deciding , stellar and beautifull to watch. Now he's a lazy bum on the field , and should be benched. Since he's back we start doing bad again. Let Flamini take his place , hell he'll fight for it.

We are no circus Tennie . This is milan we're talking about , not Real "oh lets buy him and him and him" Madrid !!

Doesnt matter how much you dislike Beckham tennie , the second he's our worst player on the pitch , then you might have a point . But i think its just blind hate towards him , especially since he was not even close being the worst player out there.

Nova, if you'll look back through the thread, I commented that he was the best midfielder out there. No, I dont' like the player and no, I don't think he should ever have been brought to MIlan, but I like to think I'm at least fair enough to recognize when a player (even one I really dislike) has a good game.

Not, yet, not yet Capt'n. I'm still here with you on most battles...


Why so serious? Dammit, the man will go away in a few weeks. It's easy to say we hate consumerism and we wouldn't sell our name/reputation/clubs reputation for money. Why don't we all take over then, invest our own money and refuse the shirt-selling deals? C'mmon, let's talk about our own economic structure for Milan?

I think we should never field that mid-selection again. Seedorf and Dinho in particular should be rotated. But what's the point? As far as I see it, the injury-situation still has a crucial role in our team selection. That way, everything is relative.

well your signature isnt exactly fair either tennie , since he's allready part of the squad. Saying he was the best midfielder last night and still having that (sorry) childish signature , doesnt make sense to me. I think a Milan player should be criticised on his performance only. Give him at least a chance.

I would rather worry about seedorf & pirlo instead of beckham.

heyyy d@mn it , im still here too !!

Not long ago we were proud of our club being different in this aspect. Now you're saying it does not matter? Then it won't matter either when we'll become one more club with a billion euro debt!
As long as Athletic Bilbao exists everyone will be able to say we've sold our soul!


There is no injury problem in midfield. Only Gattuso is out and I don't think his absence has anything to do with Seedorf and Ronaldinho playing together. Flamini and Ambrosini were both ready to play last night!

ah yes , the mighty Athletic de Bilbao ... All other teams tremble in their presence ...


Why do people always think so romantic about football , its a filthy multi billion industry . The only difference between teams is the way they present themselves. In the end , they're all the same . Bilbao , Milan , juve , barca ... Money comes in , money comes out .

It went wrong since they went to a commercial whenever the ball went out for a throw in or corner

(Personal attacks are against the rules. This is your last warning.) Max

(Counter attacks are also against the rules. This is your last warning. You and Nova are both good members, if you disagree on something, either take it up in the PM or be civil to each other.) Max

No it's not at the end that they are all the same, it's where it begins. A team is a team just like a footballer is a footballer. But saying they're all the same is nihilistic. Just before you said this is Milan, not Madrid. Why did you make this demarcation? You did it because apart from the purpose of a team's existence there are many more things that are more important and must not be overrun by the aspect of money. Some of us don't like Madrid because of the exact way they conduct their ventures! Would you not mind if we functioned the way they do (something that's starting to happen)? After all you said that in the end they are all the same...

Personally, I'm glad Athletic Bilbao exists!

Blasphemy! it's because the management/coach are Gods (or something like that). they don't take a wrong step. let's say they are ( ) thing is, the same people would mock other clubs for doing exactly the same, but when it comes to Milan? it's perfectly alright.

No offense meant, but I'd call that a laughable bias.

--

How come Bilbao? what'd they do?



You're my hero

What a post!

I think that, due to stuff that's happened in the last few years, we as Milan fans have pretty much lost the right to finger-point (except at the cugini).

Not meant not taken. Point is, no one (or let's be candid and more precise, I myself) ever said the managment guys are gods and cannot be wrong. They sure can!

1. I think Beckham was a mistake! But what now? He plays for Milan - I can either stop chearing for Milan or accept that fact, and like Nova said, give him a chance, the same I gave all others, from Taribo West to Zeljko Kalac.

I don't see any alternative to those choices pointed out.

2. The management has done great things for Milan before me and most of us here even learned to walk. I take that as credit and IMO they have the right to do mistakes. They just have the credibility in my eyes to buy Beckham, Ronaldinho, to make a few gaffes now and then, and get away with a clean exit. That does not mean I'd tolerate them buy Carragher, Matterazzi and a few others...there is a line. It just isn't crossed yet IMO.

3. Talking about double standards is meaningless in a fan board. What is this? The Puritan Milan fan board? Where you cannot love a player, cannot show appreciation to the board, cannot say you like italians and get away with it?
Where's the line?

On one hand, we don't give a damn about fans who chear for Milan because of let's say one player, do we? You'd say I'm wrong? What if someone joins here MF who's a Beckham or Emerson or Favalli fan? You think he'll feel alright here? He'll have a pleasent stay...? But I know, it's freedom of speech and we cannot dissaprove criticism. And I'm not against it, I just wan't to point out how some of them could feel.

For me it's quite logical - a man who loves Zeljko Kalac, were should he go an talk, praise his hero, other then here?

But we love hardcore fans. Oh wait,...they too don't feel so well...after all...they are a bunch of rosy-eyed, racist, unreasonable, biased bunch of posters who just are a general pain in the @ss to normal guys with their deluded way of seeing this linear and perfectly rational, one-dimensional world. Of course no one said it in those words, it's just me see things that don't exist.



They don't buy foreign players.


That's what I wanted to say - I think we are still different, even after the shirt-sell players and the media magnetes...

I think it's pointless to keep talking about this whole Carlo = predictable thing and why players like Beckham and Dinho are brought in.

We all know the type of coach Carlo is, he has his positive side and his negative side, and I know (this including myself) that these days most only see the negatives, but with the way things are going it's normal for people to feel this way about Carlo and his time as Milan coach being up after this season.

As for Beckham and Dinho, we all know why these 2 have been brought in, the management have made no secret of it. Fact is we lost major money with missing out on the CL this season and one way or another that money had to be recouped, it was either to sell a couple of player or go this route, and imo I think it's been a very good investment both in the aspect of the game as a sport and the commercial aspect. Ronaldinho has single handedly won us more points then any other player on the team, I know he sometimes plays below par and doesn;t give his all, but he pops up at the right moments and gets the job done, imo I think he's been one of our best transfers and best players in terms of effectiveness, as for Beckham, he'll only be with us for 3 months, he does help out a lot in moving merchandise and tickets, plus from what I saw against Roma, he looks really determined to play well and to me that's all that matters, I don't care who his wife is and what hotel suite she's asking for in Dubai, as long as Beckham plays well and does his job for the team all the other stuff doesn't matter.

Like I said it's pointless to keep discussing things like Carlo's predictability when we know he won't change, yes he has his short comings but what's really a major issue atm is the defence. We have a major crises back there, imo one of the major reasons for not winning the scuddetto this season is because of the mid-table quality defence we have. Yesterday Roma were barely touching the ball in the first half except for the occasional long shots, they get one chance to cross the ball in and we conceed, 80% of the goals we've conceeded this season have either come from set-pieces or crosses.

They do this!
No, not a team of only Spanish players, this is a team of only Basque players! Since 1912... and they've never been relegated! Can you imagine it, a club with this policy has achieved something that only Real Madrid and Barcelona have managed to do... and in the age of cold professionalism they still resist! They still fight with no other players but their own lads... a truly special philosophy not only for football but for life too is what they have! I can't thank them enough...


Yeah we did not change in just one day but still... I can't but be worried that things might get more and more towards that direction! I believe in our management and I think it's what han said, in this particular period, after missing out on the CL, we had to do it.

@Pana: Ambro wasn't fully fit. The Becks thing I believe was a pre-planned decision whether from upstairs or not, we can only assume depending on our individual prejudice. But that being said, I don't think Beckham played all that badly with Pirlo. The problem I think was our fourth choice defensive pairing took on Roma's second choice attack. And our second choice attack (minus Borriello) took on their first choice defence (Mexes-Juan).

What exactly were we expecting? Of course we're Milan and we should be able to beat teams even if we were hopping on one foot...but that's the Giancarlo philosophy, which I don't think you subscribe to entirely.

it's the kinda goal Kaka would score imo

I have rarely seen Kaka lobbing the ball like that

oh i was referring to how he attacked space and drifted past Mexes with 1 touch,but yeh the shot is definately something Ronaldo would do.

Ambro was not fully fit? And how do you know that? You're telling me Beckham was in a better condition? He only did the basics in the last 20 minutes as he was out of gas...
We had 3 players in Seedorf, Ronaldinho and Kaka misplacing most passes, that was the problem! Pato was our best player and had they managed to get the ball to him more effectively he could maybe have scored more.
Our CBs had a flawless game (apart from a dangerously misplaced pass by Maldini), both goals were the result of poor defending by our regular full-backs and non-existent cover-up by the midfielders (Seedorf and Becks respectively).
Also, what again was disheartening was the total immobility of the team off the ball and the inability to take the ball forward when they put pressure on us. Especially the first one, is something I'd expect a Greek league coach to have done something about after such a long time... it's been happening for two and a half seasons! Carlo should have done much more than that...

I don't know what you mean by asking what were we expecting... I'm just here to discuss what I think went right and what went wrong.

Yeah the way he accelerated was something that Kaka probably taught him to perfection but the finish was... Duckesque!

I'm a fan from now on!!!! what a beautiful philosophy!!



( )