[X-Offender]

As an aside, Monaco had the best defence in the group stages. In six matches only one goal conceded.

They're not the pushovers they're being dismissed as.

Nobody saying they're pushovers, but from all eight clubs qualified, they are the weakest of the bunch. Can't deny that much.

[han2503]

Looked more complacency to me that they thought the job was done.

Nah, they set out to defend what they had from the start. They didn't even want to play, just defend for their lives. Luckily for them it worked because if Arsenal had 10 more minutes, they'd have scored the other goal they needed

[X-Offender]

Bayern's defending... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Guardiola is a charlatan.

[Danny]

Nobody saying they're pushovers, but from all eight clubs qualified, they are the weakest of the bunch. Can't deny that much.

Well Juve blew their chance to dispatch them in Turin. 1-0 just isn't enough at home in this tournament.

[Danny]

Guardiola is a charlatan.

Who was missing Ribery, Schweinsteiger and Robben.

And Alaba, Benatia and Martinez.

Bit ridiculous to dismiss him as a charlatan when he was missing half his first team.

[Fillipo Simone]

Who was missing Ribery, Schweinsteiger and Robben.

And Alaba, Benatia and Martinez.

Bit ridiculous to dismiss him as a charlatan when he was missing half his first team.

Nevertheless he is. Trading Kroos for a half-dead Alonso, experimenting with fire, keeping Götze out of the game for questionable tactics and rotations. No, today wasn't just about Robben and Ribery missing. It was about Bayern not having a plan, not doing things correct. It happened this season so many times, always against the potential threads: City, M'Gladbach, Wolfsburg. But no, Guardiola keeps scoring passing records and rotation sheets, he keeps on trashing the poor Hamburgs and Werders. Well guess what, he got humiliated again. Just like last year, when the winning team sipped 7 goals from Madrid.

[Danny]

Nevertheless he is. Trading Kroos for a half-dead Alonso,

£20M profit and he gained a player about as good as the one he sold.

This season's ratings:

Alonso: 7.45 average

Kroos: 7.45 average. (whoscored.com)

I think calling Alonso half dead at 33 is a tad OTT. Still got a few seasons of top class football left in him. Or is Pirlo half dead too!?

experimenting with fire, keeping Götze out of the game for questionable tactics and rotations. No, today wasn't just about Robben and Ribery missing. It was about Bayern not having a plan, not doing things correct. It happened this season so many times, always against the potential threads: City, M'Gladbach, Wolfsburg. But no, Guardiola keeps scoring passing records and rotation sheets, he keeps on trashing the poor Hamburgs and Werders. Well guess what, he got humiliated again. Just like last year, when the winning team sipped 7 goals from Madrid.

I don't watch Bayern terribly closely, but your lack of credit to Porto and dismissal of 6 world class players missing from Bayern's team is curious.

PS Atletico, the La Liga champions, also lost by 4 goals to Real last season in UCL - not really fair to chastise someone based on a humbling from Europe's best one-match team last season.

This post has been edited by Danny: Apr 16 2015, 02:24 AM

[han2503]

Well Juve blew their chance to dispatch them in Turin. 1-0 just isn't enough at home in this tournament.

Yep, they should have done a lot better, scraping through on a penalty is hardly convincing, still they should have more than enough to go through. Juve have so far faced the average sides in this competition (please don't mention Dortmund, they've been absolutely awful this season).

Not going through in France would be a huge failure, especially since they're taking a slender lead with them

[Danny]

Yep, they should have done a lot better, scraping through on a penalty is hardly convincing, still they should have more than enough to go through. Juve have so far faced the average sides in this competition (please don't mention Dortmund, they've been absolutely awful this season).

Much better in UCL than in Bundesliga but yes, not the Dortmund of last season.

Not going through in France would be a huge failure, especially since they're taking a slender lead with them

Again, you're dismissing Monaco. Everyone's dismissing Monaco!

When they beat Arsenal everyone slagged off Arsenal. And if they beat Juve I'm guessing everyone will slag off Juve.

Suspect if they make the final everyone will just discredit the teams they beat.

[Fillipo Simone]

£20M profit and he gained a player about as good as the one he sold.

This season's ratings:

Alonso: 7.45 average

Kroos: 7.45 average. (whoscored.com)

I think calling Alonso half dead at 33 is a tad OTT. Still got a few seasons of top class football left in him. Or is Pirlo half dead too!?

What are you talking about? Surely Pirlo is half-dead, he's 35 by God!! And yes, Alonso may have the same average, but whereas Kroos has lots of room to grow and seasons to come, Alonso can give them 1 more or maybe two top seasons. We've seen him yesterday. It's one thing to star against HSV, that's my main point, another to play top consistently.

I don't watch Bayern terribly closely, but your lack of credit to Porto and dismissal of 6 world class players missing from Bayern's team is curious.

PS Atletico, the La Liga champions, also lost by 4 goals to Real last season in UCL - not really fair to chastise someone based on a humbling from Europe's best one-match team last season.

Sure, Porto deserve credit. Man, did I say they won in an unfair/undeserved matter? No. But I think this match was Guardiola's to throw away, and boy did he do it in his style. Sure, he lacked Ribery and Robben. But he knew that and he had time to integrate world class players he still has in his team. But no, he's much more eager to tamper with Lahm, Bertat, Alcantara etc. Well, here we go...

And don't bring up Atletico. They are no match to the ambitions of Bayern. Bayern were the defending champion. A year ago they humiliated Barcelona, the tika-taka Barcelona; then the Germans went nuts and thought of implying the very same system they demolished to their own team. And it's backfiring.

[Danny]

So a year ago they humiliated Barca but got humiliated by Real?

Your argument both defends and crucifies them.

Both illogically!

[Fillipo Simone]

So a year ago they humiliated Barca but got humiliated by Real?

Your argument both defends and crucifies them.

Both illogically!

The humiliated Barcelona with Heynckens and his tactics. Then all of a sudden, they changed to a German tika-taka, an voila, they lost their first big game with a great margin.

[X-Offender]

I'm with Fillipo on this one. Guardiola has never convinced me with some of his choices at Bayern. Letting go of Kroos for Alonso, playing Lahm and Alaba as DMs, going with different formations week in and week out, never utilizing a stable line-up etc. Heynckens had a very firm idea about his Bayern and he sticked with it, whereas Guardiola keeps experimenting.

And really, Bayern did have many absences last night, but if you're telling me that a team with Alcantara, Goetze, Muller and Lewandowski isn't good enough to beat Porto (or at least draw) then you're simply trying to find excuses.

Again, you're dismissing Monaco. Everyone's dismissing Monaco!

When they beat Arsenal everyone slagged off Arsenal. And if they beat Juve I'm guessing everyone will slag off Juve.

Suspect if they make the final everyone will just discredit the teams they beat.

And what are you basing your conclusions on? Just one game? That doesn't prove anything. It could have easily been a fluke, and it probably was considering Arsenal nearly KO'd them in the return leg.

Monaco are good, no doubt about it, but it's not like they're dominating the French league or destroyed everyone in their relatively average CL group.

I saw the game against Juve. Monaco were inferior. Defensively they were super, but that's mainly because they cared about defending and counterattacking. They have very good and smart players, but they cannot impose their game against superior teams.

The only reason people are "dismissing" them it's because among the eight quarterfinalists they are the underdogs, simple as.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Apr 16 2015, 03:39 PM

[Danny]

The humiliated Barcelona with Heynckens and his tactics. Then all of a sudden, they changed to a German tika-taka, an voila, they lost their first big game with a great margin.

Then you meant two years/seasons ago. The Barca drubbing was early 2014.

Hence I was confused. Because I didn't remember Pep humiliating Barca with Barca tactics.