[han2503]

He played 60+ games in the last 2 seasons. Silva/Nesta/Mexes compared to Mexes/Zapata/Bonera is a hilarious gap in quality.


They still need replacing as squad players. Now we're seeing the likes of Traore, etc.

Our Scudetto winning season Nesta had his best season in terms of remaining injury free in years, he nearly played every game that season which helps that number out a lot. Nesta had a bit of trouble last season with niggling injuries, Silva as well had a couple of months out. So yes those 3 compared to the other 3 are a huuuuge difference but you mentioned Nesta and I told you that Nesta had injury troubles last season and Mexes stepped in without too much fuss.

Who's fault is it that Traore comes on to play as a winger FFS?

Sure some of those guys need replacing but like I said, Allegri had already fazed most of the senators out by then, we also needed to reeduce the number of the squad and he sill has a pretty large squad to choose from especially because we have not been hit by the magnitude of injuries that we had last season.

If he chooses to put on Traore over Nocerino for example which he HAS done then what do you really want me to say to you? Traore could be easily not used or not even called up and he still has option to go with. For example, limiting our quality in midfield to play Boateng as a LW and then chosing f@cking Muntari to start. That's what's really the problem, not that he doesn't have enough quality

Just Nesta? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

As if not legends and the true backbone of Milan for over a decade ripped out last summer. And the man says TWO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Like I said. Most of the senators had already been fazed out and not even considered as viable options by Allegri, with only Seedorf getting a couple of games here and there. In terms of the starting 11 he has to pick from he's basically lost 2 players only. Nesta was an expected loss and we had covered for that with Mexes just like last season when he was injured and Mexes stepping in.

The true backbone? The true backbone of Milan had already been ripped apart when we started losing true world class stars like Sheva, Kaka, Paolo, Pirlo, etc. Rino, Seedorf and Ambro were barely on their last legs by last season and fazing them out was one of the things that Allegri did very well.

No matter how much you love a player sometimes you have to simply admit that he can no longer produce for your team, out of the senators we had last season only Nesta was still playing at the highest level, the rest simply could no keep up anymore.

[Rossoneri7]

Our Scudetto winning season Nesta had his best season in terms of remaining injury free in years, he nearly played every game that season which helps that number out a lot. Nesta had a bit of trouble last season with niggling injuries, Silva as well had a couple of months out. So yes those 3 compared to the other 3 are a huuuuge difference but you mentioned Nesta and I told you that Nesta had injury troubles last season and Mexes stepped in without too much fuss.

Who's fault is it that Traore comes on to play as a winger FFS?

Sure some of those guys need replacing but like I said, Allegri had already fazed most of the senators out by then, we also needed to reeduce the number of the squad and he sill has a pretty large squad to choose from especially because we have not been hit by the magnitude of injuries that we had last season.

If he chooses to put on Traore over Nocerino for example which he HAS done then what do you really want me to say to you? Traore could be easily not used or not even called up and he still has option to go with. For example, limiting our quality in midfield to play Boateng as a LW and then chosing f@cking Muntari to start. That's what's really the problem, not that he doesn't have enough quality


Like I said. Most of the senators had already been fazed out and not even considered as viable options by Allegri, with only Seedorf getting a couple of games here and there. In terms of the starting 11 he has to pick from he's basically lost 2 players only. Nesta was an expected loss and we had covered for that with Mexes just like last season when he was injured and Mexes stepping in.

The true backbone? The true backbone of Milan had already been ripped apart when we started losing true world class stars like Sheva, Kaka, Paolo, Pirlo, etc. Rino, Seedorf and Ambro were barely on their last legs by last season and fazing them out was one of the things that Allegri did very well.

No matter how much you love a player sometimes you have to simply admit that he can no longer produce for your team, out of the senators we had last season only Nesta was still playing at the highest level, the rest simply could no keep up anymore.

I agree they aren't 20 no more, but they had experience. Look at Totti, a prime example of a veteran leader. We have fresh blood already injected, leadership from players like Seedorf and Gattuso, the authority as true champions of the game and senators in their own right would have steadied our rocky start to the season.

The type of players who bring a lot into the game, if not in flair, speed, explosiveness, but in experience, tactical awareness, and above all advise and command on the pitch.

You lost more than two players on that pitch han. That was the bigger loss IMO. With all due respect to Zlatan and TS of course.

[han2503]

I agree they aren't 20 no more, but they had experience. Look at Totti, a prime example of a veteran leader. We have fresh blood already injected, leadership from players like Seedorf and Gattuso, the authority as true champions of the game and senators in their own right would have steadied our rocky start to the season.

The type of players who bring a lot into the game, if not in flair, speed, explosiveness, but in experience, tactical awareness, and above all advise and command on the pitch.

You lost more than two players on that pitch han. That was the bigger loss IMO. With all due respect to Zlatan and TS of course.

What use were those players when Allegri basically stifled them out?

I agree with what you're saying, which is why I completely disagree with our youth policy (unless a cheap guy like Zaccardo comes into the picture because then the policy is out the window), you can't build a team on a bunch of kids. The management need to find a balance, we need youth and experiance.

And yes, the experiance counts for a lot in the dressing room as well, but players like Seedorf, Nesta AND Gattuso have all commented about their displeasure with how Allegri was running things behind the scenes. ALL of them were unhappy, and these guys are huge characters who have been outspoken (not Nesta but the other 2) and have given their all for this club. But when their contribution is not being taken on board off the pitch then what use do players like Seedorf have when his legs have gone and his best asset (his mind) is not even being used properly and we're not taking advantage of what he has left to offer?

When Gattuso was on the bench last season and he'd be up and screaming his head off at the players and jumping and celebrating like a lunatic it brought great satisfaction for me, I could easily see him in a coachign capacity with us and doing great things. But as a player he had nothing left ot give this team and he knew that as well.

On the pitch we lost 2 players and off it we lost more, I agree, but if you think that all was rosy last season because we had those characters, think again. Last season we also had compulsive winners in Ibra and Van Bommel for example. Players who did not accept losing, that drove others on as well

But our problems have not even been just that. All I want to see at least is some improvement each week with a tactical plan being executed on the pitch, where we do something else aside from passing the ball around with no clear plan. And that is the worst thing. Have to watch these good players doing this for 90 minutes each week and then relying on a ref call.

As for Totti, he still has a lot to offer his team, just like Nesta, something that Rino, Ambro and Seedorf simply did/do not have anymore. We had a chance to gently ease the senators out while still keeping the ones who still had more to offer to the team. I'm talking about Pirlo here as well, and we chose to throw him away simply because Allegri did not view him as part of his "tactical" ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) master plan

[dst]

To me this Milan is just poor in quality. We lost a lot in the summer and even those seniors that did not play had a role. As awful as we look on the field, I never though we'd be among the top 4 (and we might still not finish there) so this team is overachieving by a lot in my view as I expected a 7th place finish.

[X-Offender]

To me this Milan is just poor in quality. We lost a lot in the summer and even those seniors that did not play had a role. As awful as we look on the field, I never though we'd be among the top 4 (and we might still not finish there) so this team is overachieving by a lot in my view as I expected a 7th place finish.

Nah man, we're not that bad. I mean, yes, the losses of Ibra and Thiago were a huge blow, but given the current state of the Serie A, finishing 3rd would be just normal. Only Juve have a better team than us. The rest are very beatable and far from impressive. It's no wonder that despite us playing some freakishly horrible football, we're 3rd place nevertheless. I mean, just think if we had an apt coach to guide us. We'd be far ahead in terms of points, and maybe Barça wouldn't be such an impossible task as it is right now.

I think people underrate this team too much. Of course, it's nowhere close to the Milan we're used to, but saying stuff like we're 7th place material or 3rd place would be an achievement doesn't sound about right. It only amplifies the fact that the mentality of the Milan fan has been reduced to very low levels.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Feb 17 2013, 01:20 AM

[dst]

It's the way you look at it... to me you're overrating the quality of the team, which in my view is very poor and that leads you to believe our coach is holding us back which I can't see at all. I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm saying it's how I believe it is.

[milanbuf88]

Nah man, we're not that bad. I mean, yes, the losses of Ibra and Thiago were a huge blow, but given the current state of the Serie A, finishing 3rd would be just normal. Only Juve have a better team than us. The rest are very beatable and far from impressive. It's no wonder that despite us playing some freakishly horrible football, we're 3rd place nevertheless. I mean, just think if we had an apt coach to guide us. We'd be far ahead in terms of points, and maybe Barça wouldn't be such an impossible task as it is right now.

I think people underrate this team too much. Of course, it's nowhere close to the Milan we're used to, but saying stuff like we're 7th place material or 3rd place would be an achievement doesn't sound about right. It only amplifies the fact that the mentality of the Milan fan has been reduced to very low levels.

I seriously don't know where you and han come up with this stuff. I don't care if Mourinho, Pep, or any mortal you choose was coaching this team, the gulf in quality between us and teams like Barca is massive. Last year we had a fighting chance. This year it would take a perfect two games and a whole lot of luck. You and han overrate this team greatly and massively underrate the amount of losses we've sustained. It's not just Ibra and Thiago, though they were obviously the largest losses. Van Bommel was HUGE for us and we still very clearly miss a defensive player of his caliber. Cassano was also hugely important in the first half of last year. He ended up with 10 assists in 16 appearances! Even Seedorf gave us quality minutes occasionally and is a better player now than Muntari ever will be. I can't believe you guys a poo pooing Nesta's contribution too. He was a rock for us and was on great form most of the year. As kurt showed, the difference between our top three CBs this year and last year is monumental. In my mind, Mexes is barely starter quality, and only when he is paired with someone good enough to clean up for his lazy brainfarts. Zapata is decent squad player but not even close to Nesta or Thiago. Lets not even delve into Bonera, Yepes, or Acerbi. I think we all know their quality. The lack of perspective I've seen here is astounding. You'd think Allegri took us down into Serie C with all the whining and bashing he's gotten. We all know he's not a superstar but you can't race like a Ferrari when all you have is a Honda.

[X-Offender]

Abbiati
Abate - Zapata - Mexes - Constant
Boateng - Montolivo - Nocerino
Bojan
Balotelli - El Shaa

That's a really good line-up by Serie A standards. It makes use of our best players in their suitable positions. Yet I've never seen it implemented even once.

My problem with Allegri isn't about the gap in quality between this team and the ones from previous seasons, that's not his fault. My problem with the guy is his decisions regarding line-up, formation, tactics and so on. We're 3rd place and we've accumulated many points in the last couple of months, but everyone fails to see what a mess we are on the pitch. No direction, no cohesion, no tactical awareness, nothing. We've won games through referee mistakes, sheer luck, individual strikes, or due to the poor quality of our opponents. Let's not forget our toughest fixtures are still ahead of us. And how can we possibly hope to win them if Allegri keeps playing Muntari, Boateng in attack, Niang on the wing, bring Traoré in the second half, always keep Bojan on the bench etc. We play some freakishly horrible football, but nobody seems to care about or even realize it. All they care is that we manage to scrap the 3 points in the end. Such attitude will only bite us back when things will matter, but it will be too late then.

[KillerMax]

For me this team is weak, yes. Especially compared to the giants of Europe. But we are not playing those teams week in week out, are we now? The players that make up this squad are still better than most Serie A sides. If you disagree with this, you are wrong. I don't expect fantastic football week in week out and beating opponents 4-0 left and right. But I expect a cohesive, motivated team, giving their all and following a tactical plan on the pitch. Even if you lose some games and end the season lets say at 4th, what can you say really but sympathize with the team? But if you your team is getting on the pitch with a different line up every week, players look apprehensive and play with a lack of belief and motivation, there is no tactical plan to be noticed half way into the season and we are scrapping wins against the likes of Parma while having already drawn or lost against even lesser teams, then there is something f@cking wrong.

[drucurl]

It's hard to hate the n00b charlatan lately. He's done a really good job with Stephan and M'baye. The thing is that he's simply out of his depth at Milan. As many have mentioned previously Milan seem to have no real plan and honestly, the 4-3-3 is a joke. He seems to not value the technical players if they aren't physical monsters.

He doesn't play Bojan and Robinho seems increasingly disinterested. Montolivo aside, what is it with this guy and technical players? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) yes we've heard all the excuses for the departures of Ron, Pirlo, Seedorf etc, but the big teams always need a few.

Allegri has a rather unsophisticated outlook on how the game should be played. It's always just "press and hope for the best".

[kurtsimonw]

Montolivo aside, what is it with this guy and technical players? the big teams always need a few.

While I can understand why he wants energy and muscle (as you later mentioned, for the pressing game) I do agree with you that we lack the technical ability overall. I think it's why we often struggle to shut games down. There's been a number of times I feel like we've had a 2 goal lead late only to conceed in the 90th minute or so and make it a nervy few mins. We don't have many players who can keep the ball and play it around late when being put under pressure by the opposition and it is a little frustrating at times.

[Rossoneri7]

To me this Milan is just poor in quality. We lost a lot in the summer and even those seniors that did not play had a role. As awful as we look on the field, I never though we'd be among the top 4 (and we might still not finish there) so this team is overachieving by a lot in my view as I expected a 7th place finish.

Summed it up for us all I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

To me this Milan is just poor in quality. We lost a lot in the summer and even those seniors that did not play had a role. As awful as we look on the field, I never though we'd be among the top 4 (and we might still not finish there) so this team is overachieving by a lot in my view as I expected a 7th place finish.

I think it's worth noting that it really is quite a large turnover in players. In my opinion we have the 3rd/4th best squad overall. Now people might debate that, but it's irrelevant to my point. Juventus and Napoli especially have had the same squad for 2 years or so now and they just add peices to it. Why did we start so awful and suddenly start winning games? Because the team began to gel. MDS, Zapata, Acerbi, Constant, Montolivo, Pazzini, Niang, etc. aren't just going to come in and play like they've been here for years. It also takes time to find what works. Even look at City, they spent money on quality players and barely finished 3rd in Mancini's first full season, because it was an entirely new squad. Following season they were more of a unit and they won the title. Chemistry is pretty important.

[Zed.D]

Abbiati
Abate - Zapata - Mexes - Constant
Boateng - Montolivo - Nocerino
Bojan
Balotelli - El Shaa

That's a really good line-up by Serie A standards. It makes use of our best players in their suitable positions. Yet I've never seen it implemented even once.

My problem with Allegri isn't about the gap in quality between this team and the ones from previous seasons, that's not his fault. My problem with the guy is his decisions regarding line-up, formation, tactics and so on. We're 3rd place and we've accumulated many points in the last couple of months, but everyone fails to see what a mess we are on the pitch. No direction, no cohesion, no tactical awareness, nothing. We've won games through referee mistakes, sheer luck, individual strikes, or due to the poor quality of our opponents. Let's not forget our toughest fixtures are still ahead of us. And how can we possibly hope to win them if Allegri keeps playing Muntari, Boateng in attack, Niang on the wing, bring Traoré in the second half, always keep Bojan on the bench etc. We play some freakishly horrible football, but nobody seems to care about or even realize it. All they care is that we manage to scrap the 3 points in the end. Such attitude will only bite us back when things will matter, but it will be too late then.

Nobody seems to realize we're playing horrible football? you think people are stupid or what?

It's obvious that we play horrible football that is hard to stand, but read kurt's post above^. I also agree with that. this is not a video game world where you can judge how good a team is by looking at its XI on a paper and say it should play good football and easily be a contender for 3rd spot. I personally didn't expect us to be where we are now after the mass changes in the summer where we lost 2-3 quality players but so much more identity. so I agree with those who think we're overachieving. I hope we continue to do so until the end of the season because we need that CL spot and that counts for more than playing good football this season which I'm sure is not a priority with the management either, otherwise Allegri would not be in a job.

All that said, it'd be absolutely unacceptable if we don't massively improve our football quality next season. with or without Allegri.

[X-Offender]

^ If we don't improve our football, then we won't get 3rd place. That's all there is to it. But seriously, I can't believe people think we're overachieving. Overachieving would be if we were contending the title with Juventus. We're simply fighting for 3rd place, the minimal objective that even Allegri set at season start.