[Zed.D]

I never said anything about his end product, in fact I did say, multiple times, that he needs to work a lot more on it as it's just not up to par. But everything else he does is always good. The odd defensive mistake can be expected. It can be expected from some of the best players around. Casillas and Buffon make mistakes in goal, Nesta, Silva, Vidic, Puyol, etc all make some mistakes along the course of a season, so it's ridiculous to condemn Abate for making a total of 3 this season. Maybe because 2 of those were against Milito, but mostly by chance.

And this season he hasn't been as good as he was last, but then again he's suffered 4 injuries this season which usually come in when he's getting back on his feet, while last season he had none.

Let me put it this way... WOULD YOU MIND A RB BETTER THAN ABATE FFS??!! because that's what I want. and that's one of the things I think we need to compete at the highest level. Abate has been very unreliable in most of our big games.

De Sciglio could be great, I did not deny that. But I'm still not falling into that trap of thinking the kid could be the next saviour and he ends up being a dud or a player that keeps getting loaned around Serie A for the rest of eternity. He's decent for now, and he put in a good performance against Inter, but I'm really not going to get ahead of myself and saying that he's as good as Abate right now is just ridiculous

Last night he played better than Abate though. that says something.

Allegri does not play Muntari as a DM though does he? (IMG:http://www.milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Allegri plays him as some sort of retarded playmaker, because in Allegri's twisted mind Muntari can be a creative mid. That's why he plays him in the position that in the past under him was occupied by Seedorf, Pirlo or Aquilani

If Muntari's not a DM then why do you always complain about playing with 3DMs? I'm confused (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Muntari is a DM. just because he tends to carry the ball and make forward passes (without much success though) doesn't mean he's seen by Allegri as a creative player. Allegri refuses to play Aquilani, true, but that doesn't mean Allegri sees Muntari as someone who can do Aqui's job.

He's not the one braking play (unless you consider fouling every player he touches as being a DM)

He wins a lot of balls without fouling as well. you just hate him so much you don't see that!

This post has been edited by Zed.D: May 7 2012, 05:00 PM

[kurtsimonw]

Yep. Only MvB made more tackles than Muntari last night, that's including players from both teams.

[X-Offender]

Let me put it this way... WOULD YOU MIND A RB BETTER THAN ABATE FFS??!! because that's what I want. and that's one of the things I think we need to compete at the highest level. Abate has been very unreliable in most of our big games.

I think there are plenty of other areas that need retouching at the moment. So, I'd be happy with Abate and De Sciglio for next season.

If Muntari's not a DM then why do you always complain about playing with 3DMs? I'm confused (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Muntari is a DM. just because he tends to carry the ball and make forward passes (without much success though) doesn't mean he's seen by Allegri as a creative player. Allegri refuses to play Aquilani, true, but that doesn't mean Allegri sees Muntari as someone who can do Aqui's job.

You're just confusing things. Muntari IS a DM, but Allegri deploys him as a playmaker. He basically asks him to do what Aquilani used to do for us, but at the same time win as many balls as he can. Kind of a Xabi Alonso or Raul Meireles. But we all know Muntari doesn't have the brains to make a simple pass, let alone dictatce the game. So, in the end, we're still playing with 3 DMs, and considering Boateng is no real trequartista either makes it even worse. That's why I've always been keen on Aquilani. He might be an average player, but at least he's a real playmaker and gives a proper balance to our midfield.

[han2503]

Let me put it this way... WOULD YOU MIND A RB BETTER THAN ABATE FFS??!! because that's what I want. and that's one of the things I think we need to compete at the highest level. Abate has been very unreliable in most of our big games.


Last night he played better than Abate though. that says something.


If Muntari's not a DM then why do you always complain about playing with 3DMs? I'm confused (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Muntari is a DM. just because he tends to carry the ball and make forward passes (without much success though) doesn't mean he's seen by Allegri as a creative player. Allegri refuses to play Aquilani, true, but that doesn't mean Allegri sees Muntari as someone who can do Aqui's job.


He wins a lot of balls without fouling as well. you just hate him so much you don't see that!

I asked you already, give me 3 names of RBs who are better than Abate and come with a realistic price tag for us. The LB is a much more pressing issue for us. Abate is fine, maybe not spectacular but he's usually very dependable (those 3 mistakes aside this season)

It's still not enough to judge. I jumped to conclusions about him after the chievo game because he was just that bad, and now you're jumping to conclusions about him because he had a good game. I'm going to wait before I make my personal decision on him from now on. Because it's way to early to tell

He is a DM, but that's not what I said. I said and I quote "Allegri plays him as some sort of retarted playmaker". Because he is a DM and for stupid reason Allegri does not even play him that way, Muntari is expected to make the long passes and move the ball forward, which is just ridiculous because he usually can barely make a 1 meter pass without screwing it up most of the time.

That's the most infuriating that, that Allegri bases all of our creativity on a DM that has the skill set of a 10 year old

[Fillipo Simone]

I asked you already, give me 3 names of RBs who are better than Abate and come with a realistic price tag for us. The LB is a much more pressing issue for us. Abate is fine, maybe not spectacular but he's usually very dependable (those 3 mistakes aside this season)

Granted, no good fullbacks at all. But why should this be the excuse? Why not try find a fresh fullback, I'm sure we could try discovering a proper player. But you're exaggerating; you honestly think Abate made only 3 mistakes this season, and can be put in the same example with Casillas, Buffon or Nesta? Really???

De Sciglio could be great, I did not deny that. But I'm still not falling into that trap of thinking the kid could be the next saviour and he ends up being a dud or a player that keeps getting loaned around Serie A for the rest of eternity. He's decent for now, and he put in a good performance against Inter, but I'm really not going to get ahead of myself and saying that he's as good as Abate right now is just ridiculous

As far as I remember the kid played a solid premiere against Chievo with a disastrous Milan and Gattuso covering his side, but you failed to see anything in him. Why don't you give him the deserved praise? Yes, he isn't the next someone, he's De Sciglio who played a very good first derby! Why not embrace the chance that he might be talented? And finally, why not give the boy a fair chance. Because Abate proved that you can achieve many things only if you want them badly, even without talent. I can see that this kid has more talent then Abate ever had or will have, and if only he has the same determination in a couple of years he could be a good reliable fullback we need. That is if we don't loan him to Lecce, then transfer to Genoa, then sign a co-ownership, then exchange for another player 1/4 of his rights, then loan him to Chievo, and...

[Fillipo Simone]

And one more thing, the Muntari bashing really starts annoying me. Granted, the guy is a joke and he's definitively not Milan-material, but would you guys drop it? It's becoming lame actually.

[kurtsimonw]

And one more thing, the Muntari bashing really starts annoying me. Granted, the guy is a joke and he's definitively not Milan-material, but would you guys drop it? It's becoming lame actually.

Ratings from yesterday

Obviously the majority are wrong then, how dare Muntari get voted so highly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[X-Offender]

And one more thing, the Muntari bashing really starts annoying me. Granted, the guy is a joke and he's definitively not Milan-material, but would you guys drop it? It's becoming lame actually.

We'll stop bashing him when people stop defending him.

[Fillipo Simone]

We'll stop bashing him when people stop defending him.

It's an enchanted circle that will drive people to extremes. No purpose.

[han2503]

Granted, no good fullbacks at all. But why should this be the excuse? Why not try find a fresh fullback, I'm sure we could try discovering a proper player. But you're exaggerating; you honestly think Abate made only 3 mistakes this season, and can be put in the same example with Casillas, Buffon or Nesta? Really???



As far as I remember the kid played a solid premiere against Chievo with a disastrous Milan and Gattuso covering his side, but you failed to see anything in him. Why don't you give him the deserved praise? Yes, he isn't the next someone, he's De Sciglio who played a very good first derby! Why not embrace the chance that he might be talented? And finally, why not give the boy a fair chance. Because Abate proved that you can achieve many things only if you want them badly, even without talent. I can see that this kid has more talent then Abate ever had or will have, and if only he has the same determination in a couple of years he could be a good reliable fullback we need. That is if we don't loan him to Lecce, then transfer to Genoa, then sign a co-ownership, then exchange for another player 1/4 of his rights, then loan him to Chievo, and...

I think you failed to read my earlier posts.

Did I ever in any way compare him to those players in terms of quality or how good he is? Clearly not. I said that even top class players like those mentioned make the occasional mistake. Abate has made the occasional mistake this season, I never said otherwise, just like the rest of our players on this team.

And give me one other instance aside from the 3 I mentioned above where Abate made a mistake. I can give you 3 Nesta made, 3 of Thiago's mistakes and so on. It's pointless to want Abate out. His improvement over these 2 seasons is enough for me to trust that he'll continue to improve. The real issue is not at RB. Why we're focusing on Abate because he gave away a soft penalty is beyond me. Our problem is at LB, where Allegri for some reason put Bonera in who, btw, was the culprit for the first goal.

What? Against Chievo? There is a reason why I thought he'd ammount to nothing after I saw that game. He was shocking in that game. And granted, I did make my assesment in a gung-ho fashion and already admitted I was wrong. And IIRC the post you quoted clearly shows that I praised him on his performance against Inter, so why are you saying that I won't give him the credit he deserves? I clearly said in a later post that he did very well against Inter and proved me wrong of what I first thought after that game against Chievo. I'm just choosing not to buy into it yet, we always get sucked into this with younger players, and usually we're let down once they go into the loaning system we seem to employ. So I'd rather wait it out a bit. Atm Abate is more than good enough, we have bigger problem to worry about than trying to replace a good player with maybe someone better. Even you can't clearly say that getting someone new in would be a success, atm good FBs are at a huge shortage unless you want to spend huge sums on guys like Alves for example

We'll stop bashing him when people stop defending him.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

@ kurt, the numbers are getting boring. If you can't see what a liability he is for us than that's more than ok, your oppinion and all. But anyone can see wath an absolute twit he is

[X-Offender]

I think you failed to read my earlier posts.

Did I ever in any way compare him to those players in terms of quality or how good he is? Clearly not. I said that even top class players like those mentioned make the occasional mistake. Abate has made the occasional mistake this season, I never said otherwise, just like the rest of our players on this team.

And give me one other instance aside from the 3 I mentioned above where Abate made a mistake. I can give you 3 Nesta made, 3 of Thiago's mistakes and so on. It's pointless to want Abate out. His improvement over these 2 seasons is enough for me to trust that he'll continue to improve. The real issue is not at RB. Why we're focusing on Abate because he gave away a soft penalty is beyond me. Our problem is at LB, where Allegri for some reason put Bonera in who, btw, was the culprit for the first goal.

+1

Let's shift our attention from Abate and onto those areas that really need extensive work.

[kurtsimonw]

@ kurt, the numbers are getting boring. If you can't see what a liability he is for us than that's more than ok, your oppinion and all. But anyone can see wath an absolute twit he is

Numbers also don't lie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I am only defending him because he is not 10% of how bad some of you are saying. He wins the ball back and scores the odd goal. No, he's not creative. No, he's not World class. No, he's not a star name. But after every game some are "ZOMG MUNTARI SUCKZ" even if he's played a, forgive the oxymoron, perfectly average game.

You can disagree with that, I don't care. If he is as crap as you guys made out, he wouldn't be here, some other "mediocre DM" would be.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: May 7 2012, 10:04 PM

[Zed.D]

Numbers also don't lie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I am only defending him because he is not 10% of how bad some of you are saying. He wins the ball back and scores the odd goal. No, he's not creative. No, he's not World class. No, he's not a star name. But after every game some are "ZOMG MUNTARI SUCKZ" even if he's played a, forgive the oxymoron, perfectly average game.

You can disagree with that, I don't care. If he is as crap as you guys made out, he wouldn't be here, some other "mediocre DM" would be.

Exactly.

I don't think he was even average against Inter, he made too many mistakes, but the game before that, Atalanta, he was simply one of our better players. missed passes way fewer times, scored an important goal, won the ball many times and overall did his job fairly well. but the reactions to his game was the usual "ZOMG MUNTARI SOCKZ".

[rip]

Miserable performance, same as recent matches. The only positives from the match for me would be De Sciglio and ibra.

As most of us here i too agree, muntari is crap. the guy was lucky (cos of the fog, im guessing) the ref didnt see his challenge on samuel in the penalty area, few minutes before the penalty for nesta handball. He comes sliding in behind two footed, the ball was no where near.

EDIT: the reason most of ppl here hating muntari is (my guess), that he is taking the spot of being the creative mid, whilst not being one. If he were to play as a box to box (instead of nocerino, not that hes better than nocerino) and give up creative spot to some one like Aqua the bashing would be less. But then again thats allegris fault. And thats another 'disagreement' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by rip: May 8 2012, 08:37 AM

[Jack Sparrow]

^^Exactly. Leave Muntari alone.

The fact is our mid-field 3 requires only one shuttler. If you look at the games he's played and his scoring rate, he's actually doing much better than Nocerino. The fact that he's playing in a position where we require creativity and not running is the problem.

And I'm finding it really weird that people even consider Nocerino to be a DM. He's as much a DM as Abate is a CB.

He's a shuttler, the perjorative terms for these people being 'water-carriers'. An immensely important position in every team.