[Bluesummers]

Okay so you're going after where I live even though you have no argument? Pal, I live in California on a part-time basis. I'm not here most of the year to begin with. No, you have no right to comment on my personal situation and I will say that right now.

My parents live in Milan, and most of my family is either in Spain or Italy.

And what people? Rightttt.



He played a fair amount of games... Shevchenko in my eyes is more proven than Borriello.

Borriello went down to the Serie B and C, before he joined Genoa... he scored 19 goals in ONE SEASON.



No, I'm stating my own opinion. So if I'm not a President of a country I can't disagree with the President of the United States on something? I can disagree with Billy and Boban, as much as you can disagree with Galliani.

people who i got my level 3 from said it. Ranking officals buddy please just stop i have no problems with your oppinions but when they conflict with facts i get mad. Club football will always be above internationals. Why else do you think coaches have the choice of withdrawing or even giving instructions to how players play in internationals. Look at dinho in the olympics..

and regarding borriello it doesnt matter i look at the most current season.

who would you prefer 19 goals or nothing.

hmm we should def pick sheva.

[Giancarlo]

people who i got my level 3 from said it. Ranking officals buddy please just stop i have no problems with your oppinions but when they conflict with facts i get mad. Club football will always be above internationals. Why else do you think coaches have the choice of withdrawing or even giving instructions to how players play in internationals. Look at dinho in the olympics..

and regarding borriello it doesnt matter i look at the most current season.

who would you prefer 19 goals or nothing.

hmm we should def pick sheva.

Ranking officials? What are you talking about? Do you think I care what your friends say? Second, my opinions are based on facts. They don't conflict with the facts.

That's simple opinion. To me national football can bring a country together... it will always be better than club team football. I look forward to the 2010 World Cup more than anything else.

Why not have 4 strikers?

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 28 2008, 10:19 PM

[Bluesummers]

Ranking officials? What are you talking about? Do you think I care what your friends say? Second, my opinions are based on facts. They don't conflict with the facts.

That's simple opinion. To me national football can bring a country together... it will always be better than club team football. I look forward to the 2010 World Cup more than anything else.

Why not have 4 strikers?

freinds? wow your ... buddy wow... i told you i got my level 3 coaching degree from swiss but yes of course my freinds say that right.

i'm done your simply an idiot. You state your opinion as fact and if people disagree you go into spazzy mode.

Dont respond to my posts and take them as they are.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Aug 28 2008, 10:21 PM

[Giancarlo]

freinds? wow your ... buddy wow... i told you i got my level 3 coaching degree from swiss but yes of course my freinds say that right.

i'm done your simply an idiot. You state your opinion as fact and if people disagree you go into spazzy mode.

Dont respond to my posts and take them as they are.

I could say I'm the President of Uzbekistan... doesn't make it true now does it?

I put facts behind my opinion and you have repeatedly attacked personal things about me. Thus, I think we all know who win this little argument.

I'll post what I want and be civil about it. Nothing spazzy here, nor do I call people idiots.

Yes, I'm done responding to you. Good day.

[kurtsimonw]

Do you honestly think the players put in as much effort as they do when they are playing in their respective league over the international stage.

Have you ever heard of Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard.. or the England national football team for that matter. These guys put in amazing performances for their club, but do sweet F A for the 3 Lions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[han2503]

There is no way that he will regain his form and those who think that he will are disillusioned and blind. A striker who is 32 and hasn't played football in 2 years will have no impact in reaching our objectives and will be only used as a back up for the real strikers such as borriello and pato.

Sheva is past it and people who have played with him such as boban and costacurta have said it aswell and there is no way carlo will forgive him for what he did. I as many of you guys/girls would love to see him back to his old ways but it will never happen. It will take a lot of time do undo the damage chelsea did to him because in the sport of soccer if you have no confidence you are nothing. I am talking from experience. Even c.ronaldo/kaka/messi without their confidence would be as good as gila.

Sheva will be a good cover but he wont score more than 10 goals in the season and you can quote me on that. Its better to stop thinking hes going to score 20+ and supporting him because of what he did in the past. Our future is pato and borriello and lets give them the support that they need, not a striker who has been washed up and is at the point in his carreer where he should be hanging up his boots.

That's a bit harsh, personally I believe that Sheva was brought in for non footballing reasons. This is Silvio's purchase, nobody else's no metter what Galliani says.

Even so, as for saying he's all washed up and such, I don't think he is. As you said his confidence took a big hit at Chelsea, it has been taking hit from the moment he went there and it was pretty clear that Jose wasn't that fond of having him on his team. I was watching Chelsea TV today and they had a Gazzetto Dello Sport writer commenting on one of their shows, and he had some intersting views on things, first of all the Mourinho factor which he believes is 80% of the reason why Sheva never really adjusted, going from being treated like a hero in Milan to a regular average player at Chelsea. The fact that Mourinho never even tried to integrate him into the team, and I quote "he was pushed into the team, while playing the long ball out to Drogba and saying to Sheva play with whatever scraps you can" he also likened the transfer to someone buying a Ferrari without having a garage to put it in.

Sheva is a very smart player, he's very tactically aware, it's not true that he mostly relied on pace while he was in Italy. But still he has lost some of the pace that allowed him to run onto long balls from Pirlo and Seedorf, but he will re-adapt his game to suite his short comings. He will be supported and that's what he needs to regain his confience, it's not true that his team mates at Milan resent him, they've all stayed close, even going on holidays together in the summers.

It was to do with kristen and an ex boyfriend(if you know what I mean), I heard he kept pestering her. Could all be BS but you never know...

hmmm, haven't heard this one before now. For whatever reason he left, I personally don't believe that it was money related since Silvio always wanted to keep him here and would have matched whatever Roman was offering

This post has been edited by han2503: Aug 28 2008, 11:24 PM

[vnata001]

this is getting a little ridiculous. now we are calling each other's backgrounds out? whether you're from milan, LA, Japan, or the North Pole everyone is entitled to their opinion, and their opinion should be respected.

Giancarlo, i gotta say that for the most part i tend to agree with what you have to say. All of your assertions are always in defense of the club and our players. That is respectable...

BUT..before you came to this forum people were a little more respectful to one another. By saying things like "that is absolutely wrong" or "nonsense"..you are completely writing off/disrespecting someone else's opinion as false. and then you go on to state your opinion as if it is superior. It's hypocritical the way you go about criticizing other people because you claim so steadfastly that all your statements are qualified by factual evidence..well so are everyone else's. people use different pieces of information to qualify their arguments.

A sheva supporter would take Scolari's "7 goals in 11 games" comment to show sheva still has it.

A Sheva detractor would simply say "look at Shevas goal-match ratio" to show he's lost it.

in actuality both are quite true...

what is the motive behind arguing so vehemently? this is for everyone...it's not anyone's job to convince someone else of their opinion. This is a forum where we can gauge what other Milan fans think..but the last thing we need to do is start to try and make ourselves out to be better than the next guy. THat's certainly not why i came to post here..

Drucurl, from an objective light...Giancarlo's rationale is true. Sheva displays FINE form for the Ukraine. Why? yes, because he's the best they got, anyone else would NOT display the form HE does. 7 goals in 11 games DOES prove he has some productive form capacity in him if he is confident enough. He was never happy at Chelsea, we all saw it..

From the other side..yea sheva's overall performance at chelsea was no good. But do you all honestly think he was given a proper chance? Did Mourinho not just come out and say that Sheva was not even his target? and does that not dent his confidence a little bit? and would someone as egotistical as Mourinho play a player he felt he didn't need? Its easy to see parallels between Sheva's time at Chelsea and Gourcuff's time here. Neither played enough to find form. Both were thrown in the game in situations they were neither comfortable in, not the time to feel one's way into form..and lastly, when they did play, they rarely even saw the ball cuz the others wouldn't pass to him..

Sheva hasn't hit form for 2 seasons, nor has he really truly been given a chance to. Does he still have class left in him? yes. simply look up sheva vs. aston villa and sheva vs. tottenham. Did he show it consistently? no. did he play consistently? no.

Everyone is so critical of Sheva..what exactly has Ronaldinho done to deserve so much faith? Dinho was TERRIBLE last season. He looked amateurish..Barca suffered when he played cuz he had no pace, wasn't making his usual passes, just looked plain bad. We have faith in Dinho cuz we know how good he can be, and think that coming here is going to work for him. Exactly why that opinion for Sheva can't be shared is beyond me.

Dinho's return to Barca will be emotional. why? cuz they will cheer for him. Sheva left us..said only nice things about us while gone. and now he's come back to where he likes it more. We're in no position to attack Sheva for making a family choice, just like we are in no position to say that "my opinion is more right than yours". If you were so attached to Sheva that when he left you were so deeply hurt that you hated him..realize how much u must have loved him in the first place. Seeing him come back to us and regain his old form would not make you happy? Lets show Sheva the same faith we showed Dinho. Don't worry about Pato cuz he's now got Dinho/Kaka/Sheva to learn from, he'll progress fine. Borriello will be given JUST as much of a shot as Gila was shown.

and last year when Pippo was hurt, Ronaldo was hurt, and Gila sucked, BEFORE Pato played in January, we were in DESPERATE need for help up front. ANYONE would have helped. Then we got Pato, and although he has electric potential, we all saw together that he isn't the finished product. He isn't the complete striker yet. **Obviously Dunga saw Sobis to be better for the game plan he wanted.** Now, with Sheva we have the cover we need. If people wanted crespo, why the hell not sheva?

another thing is...Everyone is so adament Borriello plays, well where was this support for Borriello playing when we had him last time round? he played 3 matches, wasn't spectacular, and i remember someone posting that they hope to never see him in a Milan shirt again!..now we want him cuz he bagged 19 @ Genoa? how quickly minds change! What exactly did Marco do before 19 goals? not much. Doesn't mean he's not capable of a A LOT better. Same goes for Sheva. We're a fickle, emotional bunch..

..and enough with the childish "Im better than you" personal attacks. it's silly and a waste of time to read for those who aren't interested..

This post has been edited by vnata001: Aug 28 2008, 11:36 PM

[han2503]

this is getting a little ridiculous. now we are calling each other's backgrounds out? whether you're from milan, LA, Japan, or the North Pole everyone is entitled to their opinion, and their opinion should be respected.

Giancarlo, i gotta say that for the most part i tend to agree with what you have to say. All of your assertions are always in defense of the club and our players. That is respectable...

BUT..before you came to this forum people were a little more respectful to one another. By saying things like "that is absolutely wrong" or "nonsense"..you are completely writing off/disrespecting someone else's opinion as false. and then you go on to state your opinion as if it is superior. It's hypocritical the way you go about criticizing other people because you claim so steadfastly that all your statements are qualified by factual evidence..well so are everyone else's. people use different pieces of information to qualify their arguments.

A sheva supporter would take Scolari's "7 goals in 11 games" comment to show sheva still has it.

A Sheva detractor would simply say "look at Shevas goal-match ratio" to show he's lost it.

in actuality both are quite true...

what is the motive behind arguing so vehemently? this is for everyone...it's not anyone's job to convince someone else of their opinion. This is a forum where we can gauge what other Milan fans think..but the last thing we need to do is start to try and make ourselves out to be better than the next guy. THat's certainly not why i came to post here..

Drucurl, from an objective light...Giancarlo's rationale is true. Sheva displays FINE form for the Ukraine. Why? yes, because he's the best they got, anyone else would NOT display the form HE does. 7 goals in 11 games DOES prove he has some productive form capacity in him if he is confident enough. He was never happy at Chelsea, we all saw it..

From the other side..yea sheva's overall performance at chelsea was no good. But do you all honestly think he was given a proper chance? Did Mourinho not just come out and say that Sheva was not even his target? and does that not dent his confidence a little bit? and would someone as egotistical as Mourinho play a player he felt he didn't need? Its easy to see parallels between Sheva's time at Chelsea and Gourcuff's time here. Neither played enough to find form. Both were thrown in the game in situations they were neither comfortable in, not the time to feel one's way into form..and lastly, when they did play, they rarely even saw the ball cuz the others wouldn't pass to him..

Sheva hasn't hit form for 2 seasons, nor has he really truly been given a chance to. Does he still have class left in him? yes. simply look up sheva vs. aston villa and sheva vs. tottenham. Did he show it consistently? no. did he play consistently? no.

Everyone is so critical of Sheva..what exactly has Ronaldinho done to deserve so much faith? Dinho was TERRIBLE last season. He looked amateurish..Barca suffered when he played cuz he had no pace, wasn't making his usual passes, just looked plain bad. We have faith in Dinho cuz we know how good he can be, and think that coming here is going to work for him. Exactly why that opinion for Sheva can't be shared is beyond me.

Dinho's return to Barca will be emotional. why? cuz they will cheer for him. Sheva left us..said only nice things about us while gone. and now he's come back to where he likes it more. We're in no position to attack Sheva for making a family choice, just like we are in no position to say that "my opinion is more right than yours". If you were so attached to Sheva that when he left you were so deeply hurt that you hated him..realize how much u must have loved him in the first place. Seeing him come back to us and regain his old form would not make you happy? Lets show Sheva the same faith we showed Dinho. Don't worry about Pato cuz he's now got Dinho/Kaka/Sheva to learn from, he'll progress fine. Borriello will be given JUST as much of a shot as Gila was shown.

and last year when Pippo was hurt and Gila sucked and BEFORE Pato played in January we were in DESPERATE need for help up front. Now we have the cover we need. If people wanted crespo, why the hell not sheva?

..and enough with the childish "Im better than you" personal attacks. it's silly and a waste of time to read for those who aren't interested..

Wow that's a long one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But hats off to you great points all over. This childish bickering is getting way out of hand. Giancarlo says something and you'll see drucurl come and attack it. I'm not defending Giancarlo because we had our fare share of disagreements but this is getting ridiculous.

btw, great points on Sheva. Personally I think that even if he has lost all that pace that the English media always focused on, he's still a smart player that doesn't really need to rely on pace especially when you're not playing in the premier league but in a far more tactical league like Serie A that is slower paced

[acid911]

Guys, guys, always remember the 'Fishdoll Code of Conduct'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Always. Make nothing personal. Please.

[kurtsimonw]

Seconded. A bit hypocritical coming from me of all people, but cut down the arguing already!

[Giancarlo]

Wow that's a long one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But hats off to you great points all over. This childish bickering is getting way out of hand. Giancarlo says something and you'll see drucurl come and attack it. I'm not defending Giancarlo because we had our fare share of disagreements but this is getting ridiculous.

btw, great points on Sheva. Personally I think that even if he has lost all that pace that the English media always focused on, he's still a smart player that doesn't really need to rely on pace especially when you're not playing in the premier league but in a far more tactical league like Serie A that is slower paced

I am not trying to be mean. I will refrain from saying people are wrong flat out like that because I can see where that is rude. I will refrain from doing that.

I'll just say "Well I see it this way..." or "In my opinion this is what I think"... I'll avoid to the best of my abilities the usage of saying people are flat out wrong, because I acknowledge others have their opinions and say on how the club should be run. Often our opinions don't match. My apologies.

Well guys, lets stop fighting and look forward to the upcoming season.

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 29 2008, 12:46 AM

[acid911]

Well guys, lets stop fighting and look forward to the upcoming season.

+1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Lets.

[drucurl]

This is getting absolutely ridiculous!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
I'll say my piece then I'll stfu and let you all defend/love/praise whomever you want...

Sheva:
1) Poor form
2) old (approx 32)
3) slow
4) questionable shot selection accuracy
5) limited ability to adapt to varied tactics


Giancarlo:
1) Was vehemently against the sheva transfer
2) made a COLPLETE 180 degree turn after he was signed
3) calls other people's ideas 'stupid' ignorant refers to players other people like overrated and useless but then has the gall to come and play the victim role AND points fingers everywhere and calls others hypocrites
4) On other forums he was an adamant advocate of Borrielo...even going so far as to agree with Galliani's "Borrielo> Huntelaar"..now he seems to prefer seeing $h!tche$ki over him


THOSE are the facts.....Oh I Know $h!tchek$ki does wwell for Ukraine.........but then again so does $tern John for Trinidad....his scoring stats are up there with Batigol and Ronaldo's....doesn't mean that he's at a top club does it?
$h!tchel$ki scored mainly against inferior opposition (i.e where he's unlikely to meet up with any of his club counterparts)

[Habitant]

This is getting absolutely ridiculous!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
I'll say my piece then I'll stfu and let you all defend/love/praise whomever you want...

Sheva:
1) Poor form
2) old (approx 32)
3) slow
4) questionable shot selection accuracy
5) limited ability to adapt to varied tactics


Giancarlo:
1) Was vehemently against the sheva transfer
2) made a COLPLETE 180 degree turn after he was signed
3) calls other people's ideas 'stupid' ignorant refers to players other people like overrated and useless but then has the gall to come and play the victim role AND points fingers everywhere and calls others hypocrites
4) On other forums he was an adamant advocate of Borrielo...even going so far as to agree with Galliani's "Borrielo> Huntelaar"..now he seems to prefer seeing $h!tche$ki over him


THOSE are the facts.....Oh I Know $h!tchek$ki does wwell for Ukraine.........but then again so does $tern John for Trinidad....his scoring stats are up there with Batigol and Ronaldo's....doesn't mean that he's at a top club does it?
$h!tchel$ki scored mainly against inferior opposition (i.e where he's unlikely to meet up with any of his club counterparts)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) other forums?

[acid911]

other forums?

There are more than one Milan forums, Hab? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) We aren't the only one! Or did you mean what I'm thinking?