[Bluesummers]

Welcome back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But what makes 7MM the bench mark for what should be paid and not for the purchase of Zambrotta ? I know you were just trying to devalue the actual figure that should be payed when the price is mind boggling ... In general and not entirely directed at you, but I don't see the point in slapping price tags on players ... They are not cattle you know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Milan don't over pay and Milan are not hustled for anything ... There is a great structure that handles these deals, and if any shared doubts over Milan's ability to conduct a successful transfer session after a dry period of 3 years ..

Well I guess Milan did it and with a really tight budget, I think it was done very well. Both Shevchenko and Ronaldinho are a moral boost for the whole squad. And what did Milan get for it ? Judging from Milan's past at bringing players to their best again, I would say it was a bargain.

And if one should think that Zambrotta is on the decline, there is always the Cafu example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

oh no dont get me wrong i have changed my oppinion of galliani entirly and trust me i'm very much happy we got zambrotta but not happy at how much barca wants to overcharge thats all. I was having an arguement with giancarlo over something, dont worry i'm not pessmistic or anything. You remember beginning of the summer haha and now, i guess patience does have its pay off moments.

[drucurl]

Yes it must be said that he did very very well (minus $h!tchel$ki)
I'd give him a 7.5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd add 1.0 if it were alves instead
I'd add 1.0 if it were Eto'o/Adebayor/sobis/Nilmar instead
I'd add 0.5 if we got a very fast.skillful LB

[acid911]

I don't see the point in slapping price tags on players ... They are not cattle you know

Carlo thinks otherwise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) For him Brocchi is a big red bull, Gorcuff and Simic sheeps, and Dida an ox.

[acid911]

I'd add 0.5 if we got a very fast.skillful LB

Janku cuts it in this department. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) On his day he's just about the best LB in the world. I only wish his days were longer and more regular.

[Jack Sparrow]

I think Janku at his best, is just the dream fullback for Ancellotti's system. I don't know how good og an overlapper he is though. That would be Sergio. The only LB, that really made me go 'Yowzaa'. I mean in the LB world, if Maldini is Mozart, Carlos is Hendrix and Sergio is Jimmy Page.

[Giancarlo]

click here Not bad for an overrated guy huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
BTW is it me or does $heva look kinda old and thin ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

He did terribly in today's game against Wisla was it? Completely absent from what I heard.

Stop trying to prove your case to me. You're not changing my mind on this subject.

[Giancarlo]

guys just stop the argument over alves. Giancarlo clearly is biased on the issue and will not change his footing. He will eat his words in a few years.

last note for you giancarlo go look up both their stats from last season and you will see why one is price tagged at 9mil and the other at 30m.

And jack football is not so easy to describe it on a formation front otherwise every team would deploy their fastest winger on the left and supposidly outdo alves who can't defend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I find some of you guys funny in how you say he can't defend yet hes in LA LIGA playing for BARCELONA. All i can say is alot of people here will be in for quite a few surprises. Porty if your there help me with this one.

I'm biased? That's hypocritical. Totally classless and hypocritical. I'm not biased. I look at the facts. If you don't like that... fine.

I'm not going to eat my words. He'll flop in a few years.

For one, they overpaid for him big time. I could care less about the stats. You dont' see us buying Dani Guiza because he scored a ton of goals for Mallorca. I'm sure if he played in a more defensively minded Serie A he would be chopped down over and over again. Robinho for example is gonna be destroyed in the EPL...

He can't defend for a damn. Quite a few surprises? Well he flopped today... so that just proves my point.

We didn't overpay for Zambrotta either. He'll be worth every penny because he's adapted to the Serie A better.

Finally, as far as Sergio Ramos... there is a guy I actually do like. He's totally underrated. No matter my ill feelings for the team he plays in, he's great and a class player...

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 27 2008, 07:08 AM

[Bluesummers]

I'm biased? That's hypocritical. Totally classless and hypocritical. I'm not biased. I look at the facts. If you don't like that... fine.

I'm not going to eat my words. He'll flop in a few years.

For one, they overpaid for him big time. I could care less about the stats. You dont' see us buying Dani Guiza because he scored a ton of goals for Mallorca. I'm sure if he played in a more defensively minded Serie A he would be chopped down over and over again. Robinho for example is gonna be destroyed in the EPL...

He can't defend for a damn. Quite a few surprises? Well he flopped today... so that just proves my point.

We didn't overpay for Zambrotta either. He'll be worth every penny because he's adapted to the Serie A better.

Finally, as far as Sergio Ramos... there is a guy I actually do like. He's totally underrated. No matter my ill feelings for the team he plays in, he's great and a class player...

yeah flop? okay we'll see im willing to put money on the line for this case. And why do you keep bringing up serie A and la liga in this because its a non factor issue. Stats and facts about his overall performance say that in the last 3 seasons alves has been a much better and overall influential player for sevilla and will be for barca. If you want to look at facts i can bring them up. and also whose the hypocrit you say you look at facts but you dont care about stats? aren't they the same thing....

[Giancarlo]

yeah flop? okay we'll see im willing to put money on the line for this case. And why do you keep bringing up serie A and la liga in this because its a non factor issue. Stats and facts about his overall performance say that in the last 3 seasons alves has been a much better and overall influential player for sevilla and will be for barca. If you want to look at facts i can bring them up. and also whose the hypocrit you say you look at facts but you dont care about stats? aren't they the same thing....

They are two different leagues. Don't even try to tell me it doesn't matter! Oliveira did better in the La Liga, and flopped here in the Serie A. It's not a "non factor". Not even close to one. It's totally a factor. Zambrotta for example did not do well at all in the La Liga, yet in the Serie A he's adapt better. It's my opinion Alves would not make it in the Serie A and how closely marked players are. Nor would he make it in the Premier League either. The facts are what I brought up. You need to stop being so biased. If you care so much about stats, why haven't you been the biggest advocate for Milan buying Dani Guiza? Perhaps because he would end up like another Oliveira.

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 27 2008, 07:47 AM

[kurtsimonw]

Zambrotta for example did not do well at all in the La Liga, yet in the Serie A he's adapt better. It's my opinion Alves would not make it in the Serie A and how closely marked players are. Nor would he make it in the Premier League either. The facts are what I brought up.

There is not one single fact that suggests Alves would not do well in Serie A or the EPL.

I think the one thing that annoys me is that Zambrotta was good in one league and terrible in another, but he's still considered a good player. But Alves is good in one league and bad in another (Which is just an assumption, may I add) and he's considered over-rated.

You also said in previous posts that Ronaldinho will be a good signing for us, on what basis? Oliviera, Jose Mari, Javi Moreno didn't transition well from Spain to Milan, so there is no reason Ronaldinho will either. To say Alves wouldn't do well over here, but Ronaldinho will is very hypocritical, there are no facts to suggest either will do well in Serie A, or that they will do badly either.

Anyways, to keep this post remotely on topic. I've not heard anybody really complain about the Zambrotta transfer, other than us over-paying for me, but with Sheva returning and taking the traitor label not many have mentioned that this guy is twice as bad as Sheva. Leaving your club in an okay position is one thing, saying you'll stay, then leaving your club in Serie B is another..

[Jack Sparrow]

Don't think Zambrotta said that he'd stay. He was iirc one of the first who said, he'd stick no matter what the point deduction, but he would move come relegation.

He did move to Barca though and not Milan in his defence. He could have negated the transfer deal with Barca and insisted on staying in Italy. I thought Cannavaro and Zambrotta were rather graceful in their exits. As opposed to Viera and Zlatan, who moved to direct rivals, and then proceeded to make a few uncharitable remarks about their old club, before hastily taking it back.

[kurtsimonw]

Don't think Zambrotta said that he'd stay. He was iirc one of the first who said, he'd stick no matter what the point deduction, but he would move come relegation.

Zambrotta: Juventino, even in Serie B

(From a Juve forum - but it's in Italian)

He did move to Barca though and not Milan in his defence. He could have negated the transfer deal with Barca and insisted on staying in Italy. I thought Cannavaro and Zambrotta were rather graceful in their exits. As opposed to Viera and Zlatan, who moved to direct rivals, and then proceeded to make a few uncharitable remarks about their old club, before hastily taking it back.

But didn't Sheva move to another country? I also don't remember hearing him say anything bad towards Milan, so basically his transfer was the same as Zambrotta', except two things: Sheva returned home, Zambrotta returned to Italy, to join a rival of Juve. Sheva left Milan with strikers like Gila and Pippo (Remmber, Gila had a very good season before Sheva left), Juve were left with.. er... I don't even know. Milan were left in a decent position, still in the Champions League. Juventus were in Serie B. His transfer was much worse than Sheva's, no question about it really.

[han2503]

Don't think Zambrotta said that he'd stay. He was iirc one of the first who said, he'd stick no matter what the point deduction, but he would move come relegation.

He did move to Barca though and not Milan in his defence. He could have negated the transfer deal with Barca and insisted on staying in Italy. I thought Cannavaro and Zambrotta were rather graceful in their exits. As opposed to Viera and Zlatan, who moved to direct rivals, and then proceeded to make a few uncharitable remarks about their old club, before hastily taking it back.

Exactly.

@kurt, completely agree with you regarding the whole Zambrotta/Dani Alves issue.

As for how Zambro left, he never really wanted to go to Spain and it's been well documented that he was not happy with how he was sold but never really said anything bad regarding Juve, you can't really expect a player like him to have stayed at Juve once they were relegated it's the club's fault that they had gotten in the situaton in the first place, Cameronesi also wanted to leave but for some reason it never took off. Viera and Zlatan on the other hand totally classless in how they handled the whole thing, especially Zlatan

[Jack Sparrow]

So Sheva's transfer is the same as Zambro's. So what's your point? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

As for Juve...

Serie B, against the likes of Modena and Pisa...Trez, Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon hmmm....

Nope...it was still pretty much the same...besides Zambrotta's wasn't a shock move...and letting go of Zambrotta, Viera, Zlatan etc... meant that Juve could have had the other players play for them in Serie B without much of a wage drop. Not to mention, got them enough cash to reinforce when they did come back to Serie A.

The only issue is Zambrotta coming back to Milan, instead of Juve. If perhaps Juve had wanted Zambrotta, as badly as Milan wanted Sheva , things would have been different.

I'm not too much in doubt, that if Milan had been totally indifferent about Sheva, and instead gone on chasing Adebayor or whoever...we might be looking at Sheva starting with Cassano for Samp. What then?


Honestly..I don't see either of them as blood traitors. On a traitor level of 1-10, both would rank a lowly 5 for me.

Figo being number 10. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Hmm. I don't even see Sheva as a traitor at all, mainly because he never went to a rival. Figo, yes he is a traitor for what he did. Zambrotta, ultimately, yes, he's a traitor. Saying you'll stay with Juve and ending up at Milan is.. not good.