[Rossoneri7]

8 trophies in 8 years, but only 3 major trophies. The World Club Cup, European Super Cup and Italian Super Cup are glorified friendlies. I see Jose get alot of criticism on the board and if I were to claim he'd won 17 trophies in the past 8 years(which also includes an 8 month period where he wasn't managing), some on here would go on about how some 'dont count' or whatever.

If 8 in 8 years is great, then 17 in 8 years is, well, Special.

Also 17 in 8 gives some orgasms (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)

Did Jose Mourinho coach Milan ? Well if he ever gets the privilage then we can talk, until then Carlo out did his unsuccessful predecessors

[kurtsimonw]

Also 17 in 8 gives some orgasms (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)

Did Jose Mourinho coach Milan ? Well if he ever gets the privilage then we can talk, until then Carlo out did his unsuccessful predecessors

I agree that Ancelotti out did the coaches before him, but that's not difficult given the disasters we went through under them!

[han2503]

You keep bringing up does mistakes, while I honestly mean Istambul was pure luck.

On the other hand, we keep mentioning Capello and Sacchi, but can we compare those two time periods? Honestly? Champions Cup and Champions League makes a hell of a difference. In Capello/Sacchi days Milan had usually a easy start with teams like Ljubljana or HJK from Finland to deal, while tuff opposition occured only in quater finals and the semis. It was way easier to get to the final, then in the complicated Champions League system, espcially in the pre-Platini era with two group stages.


IMO it says very little and masks the reality. It's like saying - Capello managed to finish 11th with Milan, while the next season Tabarez and Morini did better end the next one Zaccheroni got us the scudetto - does it say a lot?

Honestly, can't we agree that Leonardo was a rookie coach who marked one of Milan's biggest defeats against Inter in history? Can someone like the guy or rate him after such a debacle?

Some said that the team was celebrating during half time that night. That's bringing on trouble imo, the match isn't over until the ref blows his whistle. Sure they were lucky but imo Milan played into it big time. And Carlo shouldn't have condoned such an attitude when he should know better

You can only beat what is in front of you, alot of people talk about our 07 win as something that was thanks to the poor opposition we faced until we met Man U who had a decimated defence.

The point still stand with a stronger team Carlo couldn't even make the CL spots, while Leo at least managed 3rd. After losing Kaka and Paolo. And we had some bad losses under Carlo against Inter as well so... My point here is, that without a top class team Carlo cannot manage anything. Look at him winning in England, he has the best team in the country imo, while Man U lost a lot of strength when they sold C.Ron, someone who used to score over 30 goals a season.

han, Carlo is not an ok coach .. Name one coach post Sacchi & Capello's first stints, that hauled in 8 trophies at their time with Milan.

la merda and Juve don't come close to Milan's record in that competition when Carlo was coach. Agree Juve had a remarkable squad, while la merda had a great XI, but neither of them showed what Milan under Carlo showed in that competition.

Leo had as much chance of winning the Scudetto as Roma did twice post 2006; zero chance.

Like kurt said, he only managed 3 major triophies, who really cares about the others aside from the management, who like to put BS statements under the team crest...

Like I said before, I think Carlo was a genius when it came to KO rounds, but Inter and Juve in the time were Milan were really strong in the competition weren't as weak as you're making them out to be. The only time Milan really 'flew the flag' was in 07 when Inter got KO'd early and Juve were out completely due to playing in Serie B

I wasn't talking about him winning the Scudetto, I was talking about doing better in a season then Carlo with a much weaker team.

8 trophies in 8 years, but only 3 major trophies. The World Club Cup, European Super Cup and Italian Super Cup are glorified friendlies. I see Jose get alot of criticism on the board and if I were to claim he'd won 17 trophies in the past 8 years(which also includes an 8 month period where he wasn't managing), some on here would go on about how some 'dont count' or whatever.

If 8 in 8 years is great, then 17 in 8 years is, well, Special.

I'm no Mourinho fan but I agree with you completely

[X-Offender]

Some said that the team was celebrating during half time that night. That's bringing on trouble imo, the match isn't over until the ref blows his whistle.

Oh Christ, you still believe that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Oh Christ, you still believe that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I do. Maldini said it wasn't celebrating, but arguing.. yeah, okay. If you're going to lie to cover something up, at least make it vaguely believable. Arguing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[X-Offender]

I do. Maldini said it wasn't celebrating, but arguing.. yeah, okay. If you're going to lie to cover something up, at least make it vaguely believable. Arguing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well, they were probably excited they were 3-0 at the end of the first half in a CL final, it's only natural. But I doubt they were actually celebrating it.

[Fillipo Simone]

The point still stand with a stronger team Carlo couldn't even make the CL spots, while Leo at least managed 3rd. After losing Kaka and Paolo. And we had some bad losses under Carlo against Inter as well so... My point here is, that without a top class team Carlo cannot manage anything. Look at him winning in England, he has the best team in the country imo, while Man U lost a lot of strength when they sold C.Ron, someone who used to score over 30 goals a season.

I'm not so sure. For such a conclusion, I'd got to have more arguments and facts. If I pull out that Carlo was excellent with Reggiana in his first season, but then you could argue that his team was also world class in Serie B ranks. Then we have Parma and Juve, which can also be taken as class teams..so...this can be based only on that 1 Milan season. Not enough.

[han2503]

I'm not so sure. For such a conclusion, I'd got to have more arguments and facts. If I pull out that Carlo was excellent with Reggiana in his first season, but then you could argue that his team was also world class in Serie B ranks. Then we have Parma and Juve, which can also be taken as class teams..so...this can be based only on that 1 Milan season. Not enough.

The Parma run imo was impressive, but as you say, at that time he had a squad full of young talented players, so....

[Rossoneri7]

Like kurt said, he only managed 3 major triophies, who really cares about the others aside from the management, who like to put BS statements under the team crest...

Like I said before, I think Carlo was a genius when it came to KO rounds, but Inter and Juve in the time were Milan were really strong in the competition weren't as weak as you're making them out to be. The only time Milan really 'flew the flag' was in 07 when Inter got KO'd early and Juve were out completely due to playing in Serie B

I wasn't talking about him winning the Scudetto, I was talking about doing better in a season then Carlo with a much weaker team.

If the Euro Super Cup and the Fifa Club World Cup titles are BS to you, for me they are just as important. Since I am not a European, I know exactly what the FCWC stands for. Many European teams play their strongest XI to win it when they get a chance. And just to add on that the last time we lifted that trophy was in 1990, that was when the world truly grasped the concept of the Dutch Trio and how I got a chance to be a fan in the first place.

In order for a team to compete for those trophies you need to win the biggest prize in European football. If you degrade them, well, we simply can not reach a moral understanding.

I didn't say Juve was weak. I said Milan flew the Italian flag throughout those years in that competition alone. No team in Europe could complete a feat to reach the final three times in four years?

You don't need to praise him han ... You don't need to give him recognition for anything, what he did at Milan is already written and set in stone. He is a person all the coming coaches will aspire to outdo; Leonardo, Allegri, and so on and so forth, till he is outdone. He is one of the most successful coaches to have played their trade at Milan.

[han2503]

If the Euro Super Cup and the Fifa Club World Cup titles are BS to you, for me they are just as important. Since I am not a European, I know exactly what the FCWC stands for. Many European teams play their strongest XI to win it when they get a chance. And just to add on that the last time we lifted that trophy was in 1990, that was when the world truly grasped the concept of the Dutch Trio and how I got a chance to be a fan in the first place.

In order for a team to compete for those trophies you need to win the biggest prize in European football. If you degrade them, well, we simply can not reach a moral understanding.

I didn't say Juve was weak. I said Milan flew the Italian flag throughout those years in that competition alone. No team in Europe could complete a feat to reach the final three times in four years?

You don't need to praise him han ... You don't need to give him recognition for anything, what he did at Milan is already written and set in stone. He is a person all the coming coaches will aspire to outdo; Leonardo, Allegri, and so on and so forth, till he is outdone. He is one of the most successful coaches to have played their trade at Milan.

Teams don't go into the CL just at the possibility to win the CWC, the ultimate prize is the CL itself, the CWC and super cup are side gravies. Sure I like my meat with a little gravy on it, but I'd be just as happy with the juicy steak alone anyway.

Like I said, Milan only flew the flag in 07, other years Inter and Juve got far into the CL. Flying the flag meens going through the KOs when all the other Italian teams are out, aside from 07 that was not the case.

I praise him for what he should be praised for, but I don't glorify him like you do. He achieved great things, but also made a lot of mistakes along the way, and that is the way I'll always see Carlo

[Rossoneri7]

Teams don't go into the CL just at the possibility to win the CWC, the ultimate prize is the CL itself, the CWC and super cup are side gravies. Sure I like my meat with a little gravy on it, but I'd be just as happy with the juicy steak alone anyway.

Like I said, Milan only flew the flag in 07, other years Inter and Juve got far into the CL. Flying the flag meens going through the KOs when all the other Italian teams are out, aside from 07 that was not the case.

I praise him for what he should be praised for, but I don't glorify him like you do. He achieved great things, but also made a lot of mistakes along the way, and that is the way I'll always see Carlo

Glorify him ? Was that glorifying ? Then what do you call the Mourinho mental-masturbation that goes on here ? No I don't glorify him, I just give recognition where one is needed.

[han2503]

Glorify him ? Was that glorifying ? Then what do you call the Mourinho mental-masturbation that goes on here ? No I don't glorify him, I just give recognition where one is needed.

They glorify Mourinho just as much, I never said they didn't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

The Parma run imo was impressive, but as you say, at that time he had a squad full of young talented players, so....

Then again, we could speculate that Arrigo Sacchi is the exact same kind of coach - all his achievements came with a brilliant Milan or Italy, while when Milan had a weaker team, or with Parma and Atletico Madrid - he won nothing.
So you see, many coaches fall under the same conclusion - which is to me not sufficient.

[Bluesummers]

If I were rating the top 5 managers in the world right now I'd go:


1)Mourinho
2)Ancelotti
3)Ferguson
4)Capello
5)Van Gaal


guardiola doesn't make my list because he imo is still untested. Once he manages a different team we'll see how capable he is.


----

In regards to the debate about coaches, there are alot of variables that factor into how strong a coach actually is. Its hard to argue it.

In regards to ancelotti, I consider him strong because he's produced in Italy, Europe and England.



This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Sep 14 2010, 12:51 AM

[kurtsimonw]

Ancelotti over SAF? I don't like the guy, but he's the best manager ever, in my opinion. His record with Aberdeen is ridiculous on its own, then obviously United..

van Gaal in the top 5, no Hiddink?

I can't agree there Blue.