[Locke Lamora]

Oh, Kurt just made a exaggerated post to answer the exaggerated criticism on Ambrosini. I don't get why everyone's so upset?

As all the original posts were made within two minutes of eachother I think we didn't notice there were others reacting as well...I'm still on Kurt's side on the Ambrosini vs Gattuso issue though.

[Ry4n]

Oh, Kurt just made a exaggerated post to answer the exaggerated criticism on Ambrosini. I don't get why everyone's so upset?

i'm not upset im just saying my opionion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) but he has said this before i remember it.

[Ry4n]

I think we are all forgetting Nesta !!!!!!!!!!!!! when he comes back from his injuries i think he should be captain !!!

[Zed.D]

I think we are all forgetting Nesta !!!!!!!!!!!!! when he comes back from his injuries i think he should be captain !!!

I'm not sure about that. Lazio legend, not the most senior player in the team and above all, awfully injury-prone.

I'd be shocked if he managed to play a full season ever again.

[Minami]

I'm not sure about that. Lazio legend, not the most senior player in the team and above all, awfully injury-prone.

I'd be shocked if he managed to play a full season ever again.

I think he could play one whole season. He had a really bad injury, but that nothing that happens to often, and if he gets back to 100% he could play enough games...

[han2503]

That's just not true, and you should know it. His passing isn't like Beckham's or Pirlo's, but you exaggerate.


Sorry, but Ambro's goal were not all from corners or free-kicks, and not only headers.

It's irrelevant to mesure Rino's and Ambro's "passion" - it's like speaking wether Italians or French lovers are more passionate.

No it isn't untru, notice, the only passes that meet their target are the really short ones, and even then he sometimes can't even make those. I'm not exxagerating, his touch and passing are a constant source of frustation for me, because when I see him playing and he tries to make some Ronaldinhoesque move and ends up losing the ball I get so frustrated I want to punch something, because a player of his experiance should know better.

His touch is sometimes so awful it makes him look like a sunday league ametour player.

It's not about the passion both players have. I'm just talking on a techincal level, as players, Gattuso is head and shoulders above Ambro.

And yes, not all goal came from set-pieces but more then 3/4 of them have, but it's still not enough reason to say that he should play instead of Rino because he scores a couple of goals a season.

Let me paint a picture for you.

Manchester v Milan
2007 CL semi final

1st half Rino is a monster, he gets assigned the task of handling Ronaldo, while Ambro is on the other side on Giggs. 1st half, Ronaldo barely makes a peep aside from the goal that came from the Dida blunder

2nd hald, Rino has to come off because of injury, Ambro is still there on the pitch yet we somehow manage to let Man U back in because we lost all the defensive stability without Rino. Giggs and Ronaldo came into the match and we lost.

I know this is a fairly basic scenario and that I can't apply it to the general sitaution, but I'm just pointing out how much more influential Rino can be.

Rino can't pass, shoot, tackle, take a set-peice, run with the ball, he has no pace, can't header.. I could go on.

Rino can pass far better then Ambro can, he's a DM he's not expected to do what Pirlo does, but he has a far better passing range then Ambro does. As for shooting, no he doesn't have a good shot, but neither does Ambro, and atleast he doesn't waste time and good build up play taking shots at the top stands of the curvas

He can't take set-pieces but then again neither can Ambro, because that is not in the job description for either player.

He can run with the ball far better then Ambro. And has much more pace then Ambro can dream of having, let's not forget that he is the guy that managed to keep up with C.Ron while having to play with a foot injury. Yes he doesn't have a good header, but like I said that's the only thing Ambro has on him

And I could keep going...

[han2503]

I'm not sure about that. Lazio legend, not the most senior player in the team and above all, awfully injury-prone.

I'd be shocked if he managed to play a full season ever again.

Agreed

I think he could play one whole season. He had a really bad injury, but that nothing that happens to often, and if he gets back to 100% he could play enough games...

He'll never be back to what he was, his injury is so serious, that he could relapse at any point in time. If the back problems arise again in summer I wouldn't be surprised if he called it quits.

At this point his back problems have become a chronic problem that cannot be avoided anymore

[Minami]

He'll never be back to what he was, his injury is so serious, that he could relapse at any point in time. If the back problems arise again in summer I wouldn't be surprised if he called it quits.

At this point his back problems have become a chronic problem that cannot be avoided anymore

I didn't know that it is that serious.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Zed.D]

I have to agree with han. remember how well Gattuso filled Pirlo's empty place when he was out injured. he dominated the midfield to a point it came as a shock to many of us. I remember how Tennie sometimes jokingly said he'd stolen Pirlo's brain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I believe playing alongside Pirlo for many years both in Milan and in the Azzurri overshadowed his abilities cause all he had to do was making challenge, getting the ball and passing it to Pirlo. but this season in Pirlo's absence he showed he's far more than that. he even made a couple great assists. I'm not saying he's better than Ambro or Ambro is better than him, I just say it's unfair to say Rino can't play football at all.

[Zed.D]

I think he could play one whole season. He had a really bad injury, but that nothing that happens to often, and if he gets back to 100% he could play enough games...

What han said. and unfortunately it's not just his back injury which is so serious and career threatening as it is. remember how he missed Azzurri's important World Cup games due to thigh injury...

[Minami]

What han said. and unfortunately it's not just his back injury which is so serious and career threatening as it is. remember how he missed Azzurri's important World Cup games due to thigh injury...

Jeah I remember that, he didn't even manage to recover before the final although he got injured quite at the beginning of the WC....
I just thought that he is not that old yet, and Dida also managed to get fit after his back injury, but Nesta's was really much worse than Dida's....
But I still hope, that he'll recover and play some more games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Oh, Kurt just made a exaggerated post to answer the exaggerated criticism on Ambrosini. I don't get why everyone's so upset?

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

A few players (namely Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo and Gattuso) are untouchable, and any criticism towards them always seems to make people cry, which is strange since all of them combined have made a handful of good performances in the last few seasons.

Han, funny you mention the CL semi final with United and talk Gattuso up.. any idea who won Man of the Match that game? I'll give you a hint, his last name starts with Ambro.

Ambro is a far more crucial player to us, at least when he plays he will get the odd assist or score a goal, he's also a nice player to have on the field when defending a set-peice. Can somebody please tell me what Gattuso adds to our game as I honestly can't see it myself. He can tackle, sure.. but is that it? I've watched him since his Rangers days and still see nothing more than a headless chicken of a player.

[han2503]

What han said. and unfortunately it's not just his back injury which is so serious and career threatening as it is. remember how he missed Azzurri's important World Cup games due to thigh injury...

Nesta's practically missed every summer tournament due to injury.

It's like he was cursed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Looking at how great a defender he is, he could have also been remembered as a legend along the likes of Baresi and Maldini but injuries stoped him from achieving that. It's sometimes so sad for me to even think about Nesta (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Fillipo Simone]

Han, funny you mention the CL semi final with United and talk Gattuso up.. any idea who won Man of the Match that game? I'll give you a hint, his last name starts with Ambro.

Ambro is a far more crucial player to us, at least when he plays he will get the odd assist or score a goal, he's also a nice player to have on the field when defending a set-peice.

+1; and remember Ambro against PSV. Okay, it was a header goal, but that's unimportant. Beside some Pippo, Costacurta and Maldini memories, that goal was personally to me one of the most passionate and emotional moments of recent Milan history. This is totally my opinion and maybe not objective, but I had to add it.

A few players (namely Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo and Gattuso) are untouchable, and any criticism towards them always seems to make people cry, which is strange since all of them combined have made a handful of good performances in the last few seasons.

Remove Pirlo, add Kaka.

[han2503]

Jeah I remember that, he didn't even manage to recover before the final although he got injured quite at the beginning of the WC....
I just thought that he is not that old yet, and Dida also managed to get fit after his back injury, but Nesta's was really much worse than Dida's....
But I still hope, that he'll recover and play some more games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It's more along the lines of what Serginho suffered with his back...

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

A few players (namely Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo and Gattuso) are untouchable, and any criticism towards them always seems to make people cry, which is strange since all of them combined have made a handful of good performances in the last few seasons.

Han, funny you mention the CL semi final with United and talk Gattuso up.. any idea who won Man of the Match that game? I'll give you a hint, his last name starts with Ambro.

Ambro is a far more crucial player to us, at least when he plays he will get the odd assist or score a goal, he's also a nice player to have on the field when defending a set-peice. Can somebody please tell me what Gattuso adds to our game as I honestly can't see it myself. He can tackle, sure.. but is that it? I've watched him since his Rangers days and still see nothing more than a headless chicken of a player.

They are not untouchable, for me atleast they're not, they're as much open to criticism as the rest of the players. And I personally am not over reacting because one of them is being criticised but we are comparing one DM to another yet for some reason set-piece taking and goal scoring is being considered as a main reason why one is better then the other when that is absolutely NOT the reason why either of them are on the pitch in the first place.

CL semi final. Ambro might have been voted man of the match, but that's a ridiculous thing to analyse one's performance on. Ambro didn't have that great of a game, he barely managed to handle Giggs and lost control of the midfield the moment Rino was taken off. Other times when roles are reversed and it's Rino that's left on the pitch he steps up and handles things, Ambro does not do that, because he does not have the pace, aggression and stamina of Rino, things that are essential for a DM.

I don;t see Ambro as a crucial player for us, in fact I would bet my life that had Rino been fit he would have been the one starting in the DM position ahead of Ambro, simply because he handles the midfield far more better then Ambro does.

What Rino adds? He covers for Pirlo and frees up his space 10 times better then Ambro does, it's no coincedence that Pirlo plays better when Gattuso is next to him and not Ambro. He gives us that fire and drive in midfield that we do not have with Ambro and is something you need when you have 2 slow players like Pirlo and Seedorf/Becks in the midfield. He's our engine, and when he's not playing it's a very obvious loss becuase we lose that something extra from midfield. Again, he's a far batter ball winner then Ambro and knows that making the simple pass is always better then trying some Pirloesque pass that ends up nowhere so he speeds up the play by winning the ball and laying it quickly off to Pirlo.

I could go on, but one thing I really want to mention is the chemistry that him and Pirlo have, it's something that no other midfield pairing have around Europe, it's one of the main reasons the Azzurri won the WC and why Milan's midfield has been so successful throughout the years. That is something that Pirlo does not have with Ambro and it really effects the way we play imo.

And oh come on!! You're only coming down hard on Rino because he's a former Ranger (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)