[Fillipo Simone]

OK, "when Mourinho's teams reach the top spot they don't lose it that easily"

If that makes you satisfied. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)

Yes it does. Thank you Zed...

[Tennie]

Fishdoll also thinks Kaladze and Emerson are Italians. not my fault.

Ouch. Sarcasm.

Still doesn't disguise the fact that the long knives are coming out for (except Emerson, for whom people seem to have conceived a pathological hatred) Players Who Aren't Brazilian. Because yet again, there are all the excuses in the world when they screw up.

Sorry to bring you in the middle of this one, astafjevs, but one of my big pet peeves is the assumption that brazilian players are better than italians and are above criticism. This really really bothers me, especially when people seem altogether too quick to slate any Italian who underperforms.

As for Astafjevs' points, I'd generally agree with them, but unless the Brazilians - all three of them - step up their game, they should be fair game for departure just like anyone else when the knives come out.

[Astafjevs]

Ronaldinho is nothing like the old player. In fact, all he brings is goals from free-kicks, which Pirlo did anyway. Other than that, unless he manages to score, he offers nothing to the team. He stops Kaká from playing.

Senderos wasn't good enough for Arsenal's first-XI, why would he be good enough for ours. Waste of a signing, and I'm thankful it was only a loan.

[Zed.D]

"Ouch sarcasm"?

What was your post then? non-sarcasm?

I say guys like Kaladze should leave this team and you come up with your famous "Three Brazilians" "Players Who Aren't Brazilian"... great... really great!

Anyway, I'm not going to continue. Christmas is near. don't want to make you upset!

[Tennie]

Actually, zd, it was utter frustration at slogging through pages of venom on this thread and a real, honest dislike of the constant defense of or excuses made for the 3 brazilians while everyone else is fair game. I dont' like the double standard and I don't like the bias.

I also dislike the constant negativity and bitterness on this board and the constant - even when, unlike yesterday, the team actually plays well - criticism of the team, management, coach, etc. Criticise when warranted, but also praise when warranted (but yes, that probably makes me a plastic fan. been one for 20 years then, i guess).

It's particularly galling when some of the harshest critics find excuses to explain away deficiencies in other teams they like. Yet again, double standard.

So right now? No, I'm not really too happy with this place. If people really need a place to vent their anger at the world, a football forum probably shouldn't be their first choice.

[han2503]

Fishdoll bets a dozen cookies that of those who people seem to want to ship off, none of the 3 forward playing Brazilians are on the list, even when not a one of them has played to the level they're capable off.

Fishdoll further bets the majority of those on the hitlist are Italian.

Finally, Fishdoll fails to understand why Real Madrid is forgiven for playing poorly with all its absences/coaching issues while the same courtesy is not afforded to Milan.

The penguins think that the Fishdoll lets the Italian v Brazilian thing get to his head.

I personally don't want Kaladze and Emerson on the team anymore, last time I checked niether of them was Italian...

What have the 3 Brazilians got to do with this Tennie, they are 3 of the few that have been scoring the important goals this season and leading the team, Ronaldinho is our top scorer and has single handedly won us the most points. I don't care what his nationality is, he could be from the moon for all I care, as long as he does his job then I'm not going to complain.

Emerson and Kaladze, not only don't do their jobs but they are a liablity to the team. People might criticise Favalli, I myself included, but he's 10 times better then Kaladze is when it comes to defending and his positional sense. Sure he sometimes meeses up, like giving away cheap penalties because he doesn't have the pace but at least he's got the other instincts of a defender that Kaladze simply does not have. Yesterday's performance was atrocious interms of his areal ball defending, Amauri literally had acres of space to run into and head the ball without problems.

And I'm not even to go into the whole Emerson issue.

Another player that I personally think should not be here is Senderos, if Carlo didn't want him to begin with then why did he let Galliani bring him in? Why not ask him for a defender that he actually trusts? We have him on the bench yet Carlo would rather play a fullback in the center then him, it's uselss to have him here.

On the Real Madrid issue, I'm pretty sure that their fans aren't particularly happy atm either, as for the coach, atleast their president takes initiative when he sees that the coach is not working for the team any longer he removes him. And it isn't even like Milan where we have been in this bad of a coaching situation for nearly 3 years now and still he's on our bench every week no matter how humiliating the results. Their coach had just won the league title just last season, notnearly 5 years ago.

That's the problem with Milan atm, Galliani would rather rest on his laurels and keep mouthing off about the most titled club in the world BS, while the team is in such a situation, yet Real or any other big club for that matter wouldn't hesitate to fire their coach after just a few bad months, yet we're still with the same coach after a few bad years!!


This post has been edited by han2503: Dec 15 2008, 04:27 PM

[Zed.D]

Tennie, I'm not negative. I'm realistic. I saw it all coming [like many other members] and it happened. even when we were leading I knew sooner or later we'd be here and I stated it more than once. its not bitterness nor negativity. it's being realistic.

I also dislike the constant negativity and bitterness on this board and the constant - even when, unlike yesterday, the team actually plays well - criticism of the team, management, coach, etc. Criticise when warranted, but also praise when warranted (but yes, that probably makes me a plastic fan. been one for 20 years then, i guess).

Depends on when each member thinks it's warranted to criticize/praise...

I don't think after the Lazio game I came here and bashed the team (did I?), because that was the Milan I wanted to see. and I haven't seen it since...

[Tennie]

zd, have you ever been as critical of Real as you are of Milan?

[han2503]

Ouch. Sarcasm.

Still doesn't disguise the fact that the long knives are coming out for (except Emerson, for whom people seem to have conceived a pathological hatred) Players Who Aren't Brazilian. Because yet again, there are all the excuses in the world when they screw up.

Sorry to bring you in the middle of this one, astafjevs, but one of my big pet peeves is the assumption that brazilian players are better than italians and are above criticism. This really really bothers me, especially when people seem altogether too quick to slate any Italian who underperforms.

As for Astafjevs' points, I'd generally agree with them, but unless the Brazilians - all three of them - step up their game, they should be fair game for departure just like anyone else when the knives come out.

Well aren't Emerson and Dida Brazilian Tennie? I don't see them being above criticism...

I've seen both Ronaldinho and Pato get criticised here so I don't get from where you've got the idea that they are above criticism, even Kaka has been criticed a lot this season because he's not in him best form

As for the Italian players, I eprsonally can only think of one Italian player that has been criticised on these boards and that is Favalli. In fact the players that get most criticised on this team are the non Italian ones {Dida, Kaladze, Emerson, Seedorf} So I don't see how you get the idea that the knives are coming out from the posts saying that Kaladze and Emerson should be sold.

Oh you really want to see Kaka leaving? We can't even play a decent game against a team like Palermo without him. I don;t know if your dislike for him is because he's Brazilian or whatever, but like it or not Milan needs him, or they can't even play a decent game against bad opposition.

Like I said the 3 Brazilians are the only few that have stepped up and scored the neccissary goals that have won us game, sure they might not be playing to their full potential but they have been important for us.

To me this season our best player has been gattuso, if I was a fanboy, I would have chosen Dinho or Kaka, but I say it like I see it. Yes Kaka has not been at his best, yes sometimes Ronaldinho and Pato seem a bit lazy, but they have come good in games where we needed them.

Actually, zd, it was utter frustration at slogging through pages of venom on this thread and a real, honest dislike of the constant defense of or excuses made for the 3 brazilians while everyone else is fair game. I dont' like the double standard and I don't like the bias.

I also dislike the constant negativity and bitterness on this board and the constant - even when, unlike yesterday, the team actually plays well - criticism of the team, management, coach, etc. Criticise when warranted, but also praise when warranted (but yes, that probably makes me a plastic fan. been one for 20 years then, i guess).

It's particularly galling when some of the harshest critics find excuses to explain away deficiencies in other teams they like. Yet again, double standard.

So right now? No, I'm not really too happy with this place. If people really need a place to vent their anger at the world, a football forum probably shouldn't be their first choice.

Any other football forum you would only see f**** Emerson, f***** him and him, that's the basic intelligence displayed on most football forums. Atleast here we discuss things, and we are vocal about what we don't like in the team, if everyone was going to say "Oh we're in just a bad spot, Carlo will fix it" then go on praising the team and everyone agreeing with eachother then there is no reason for a forum to begin with.

I don;t see the double standard you see, to me the only untouchable players we have are Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta and Gattuso, if you count those I only mentioned 1 Brazilian and 3 Italians, with your thinking the others could think that I have a double standard too only this time I favour the Italians...

As for the 3 Brazilians you constantly mention, I hope this won't offend you Tennie, because I respect you as a poster and a moderater on this forum but I think you feel an unneccassary hate towards them and it's only because of their nationality.

I eprsonally ddon't like the Samba BS just as much as you, I don't like the Brazilian arrogance, but these players are Milan players and one of them is the guys that after Paolo is the face of Milan, our symbol, and as long as he's pulling the Milan shirt on every Sunday, I don't really care what his passport says.

[Jack Sparrow]

I did say that we needed Favalli...but nooo...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Btw why are none of you bozos on his facebook fanclub...

[dst]

Ronaldinho is nothing like the old player. In fact, all he brings is goals from free-kicks, which Pirlo did anyway. Other than that, unless he manages to score, he offers nothing to the team. He stops Kaká from playing.

Senderos wasn't good enough for Arsenal's first-XI, why would he be good enough for ours. Waste of a signing, and I'm thankful it was only a loan.

Exactly!

KAKHA KALADZE:
"There's a lot of disappointment, we are all disappointed with the result and how we conceded the four goals. We all have to criticise ourselves and understand what didn't work. We should not let our heads down, we still have a match left and then we can prepare calmly. Certainly our mood isn't very good because we worked a lot preparing this game, we cared a lot about it and the many absences penalised us."

The one absence that penalized us the most was your absence from the center of defense! I can't believe the weakling is still a Milan player!

[Tennie]

No offense taken, han. And we do see things differently because all I see is the constant stream of praise toward the brazilians (even including Ronaldo) and hardly a kind word at all toward the Italians. Not even Gattuso (one quote being 'if he's been our best player then we're really in trouble'), and certainly no kind words for Pirlo. And 'Kaka being a bit under form' is hardly criticism compared to things that are said about other players.

Constructive criticism is FINE. It's great. But I dont' think we've got that. We've got people tearing into everything having to do with the club (but 'kaka is a bit under form) on an unrelenting, constant basis. Very few indeed are th epeople who take time out to notice that maybe someone had a good game somewhere or that oh, look, good choice of lineup or, gee, that was a good transfer. It's all doom and gloom and I feel like I'm under attack for daring to hint that 1. Kaka isn't perfect (and for the record, no I don't like the player. never did. respect his skills, but don't like his attitude - i think he's a hypocrite - don't like the way he handles the press to bully the club, and...well, don't think he's been playing well) and 2. Maybe there are some good things at the club this year.

[Astafjevs]

As has been said Tennie, it is called realism. Defeat was predicted, defeat duly arrived.

We haven't played well since the 06-07 season, and even then we weren't particularly good. We were poor throughout last year, and it's continued into this year. When a team plays as poorly as we have for a year and a half, the fans are going to start getting annoyed.

[Tennie]

With all due respect, Astafjevs, please don't lecture me.

Did I at any point say that Milan were playing well this season? Did I even participate in The Bet this season? No.

Did I say much positive about the transfers? Not too much no.

Do I think everything should be sunshine and lollipops? Nope.

There's a difference between realism and bitter venom. This place is an awful lot closer to the latter than it is to the former, in my opinion.

[Astafjevs]

There's no venom at all. It's frustration from poor performances that the majority of people saw coming in the summer. If you want a forum with members who aren't going to say a word against the club, or criticise any player, then you may as well ban everyone now.