[Giancarlo]

The facts are NOW Sheva is rubbish BUT the nostalgic feelings we have for him will linger on and will ultimately prove dangerous since we will tend to celebrate his every goal and minimize his obvious failings. An even more potentially detrimental scenario is if he hits a patch of form, Ancelotti might be tempted to field him more often at the expense of the duck's playing time- who's growing pains we might suddenly not have the patience for.

The facts are what? Kurt said it well enough. Shevchenko actually didn't so bad in London as most want to think.

I thought Sheva did "meh" on the field against Bologna. Meaning... eh... so-so... he's not rubbish. He'll play better with time. What obvious failings exactly? He played one game and you're already writing him off. I'm sure Ancelotti will test out 4-3-1-2 more often...

You're just angry and you have Ronaldo in your avatar. That says enough.

I'd rather pick Shevchenko then porky right now. But I guess you were fine when Ronaldo transferred over from Real Madrid in the condition he was in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Sep 5 2008, 09:16 PM

[drucurl]

Respectfully disagreed. We can't have 4 world class forwards, or that'll cause problems. We needed back-up for now. We were not going to acquire Ronaldinho and a top class forward (lets just say Eto'o for examples sake). Pato may be the only potential world class forward, but we have attacking midfielders who can more than make up the difference and ones that ARE WORLD CLASS.

good point

Sheva isn't crap. He's just... meh... a back-up.

I'm actually relieved that you think that way for a while I thought you were welcoming him with arms wide open!!!

Another example to prove my point: Who scores the most goals in Manchester United? Ronaldo. Tevez is a far second at 14 goals last season (just counting league games). Ronaldo had 31. Is Ronaldo a forward?

Actually he IS a forward in the position that SAF plays him....Rooney and Tevez do their share of dirty work and yeoman's service for him to get the ball. However youe example imho is inapplicable to us because none of our midfielders are heavy goal scorers....unless you are counting Kaka and I don't see him being a Serie A top scorer anytime soon (because he still has a ton of work to do as a midfielder himself)

[Giancarlo]

I'm actually relieved that you think that way for a while I thought you were welcoming him with arms wide open!!!

I've welcomed him back. That's fine by me. I would have picked a defender, then maybe if we had time try to work out a deal for Shevchenko... I've said many times... I'm okay with him coming back though it was not on my wish list.

Actually he IS a forward in the position that SAF plays him....Rooney and Tevez do their share of dirty work and yeoman's service for him to get the ball. However youe example imho is inapplicable to us because none of our midfielders are heavy goal scorers....unless you are counting Kaka and I don't see him being a Serie A top scorer anytime soon (because he still has a ton of work to do as a midfielder himself)

Actually, you're talking about two different leagues. We scored 66 goals (correct me if I'm wrong) last season... which was more or less similar to other top level teams. I'm not saying Kaka will be a top scorer. He'll probably score 10-15 again... and Ronaldinho will indeed get on the scoring chart.

As far as the league differences... Italian Serie A is far more defensive, and I'm sure if Ronaldo was playing here his total would be similar to Kaka's.

But no Ronaldo isn't a forward. I'll ask Kurt more on that one though and leave him to answer that.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Ronaldo's a winger but does often press forward in games it's so hard to tell with him though as he so often seems to get a free roll, a bit like Messi really.

The only time I remember him being put upfront from the off was against Barca and that really didn't work.

[Giancarlo]

Ronaldo's a winger but does often press forward in games it's so hard to tell with him though as he so often seems to get a free roll, a bit like Messi really.

The only time I remember him being put upfront from the off was against Barca and that really didn't work.

Wasn't he put more as a forward in the Portugual NT regarding Euro 2008? I could be wrong about that...

But he flopped in the Euro 2008. That game against Germany was quite awful.

[drucurl]

This is coming from the guy who has Ronaldo as his avatar? No. The exact same thing in January almost, was world-class then went average and then awful but you supported him. He was as old, as past it etc

Sheva is not 'crap' you are just completely bitter about the way he left which I respect your opinion in. However, I don't think you can call a player like Sheva that previous or now.

My being a fan of Ronaldo has nothing to do with this discussion and if you're going to continue to be this hostile without provocation just indicate in the affirmative and I'll leave you and Giancarlo to agree on everything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Ronaldo is perhaps the greatest player in our generation who has surmounted odds that the likes of $h!tchel$ki could only dream about. In the end he has undoubtedly fallen from hie lofty position (his fault) but I'd take a fit Ronaldo over $$$$$heva any day....at least I'd be guarranteed some goals.

Of course $heva's not total crap. He does well for the Ukraine and would surely score a few goals for Milan....If we're fortunate they would be decisive.

What I mean when I say that he's CRAP is that BY our standards and in harmony with our ambitions he's not our guy. He is a shadow of himself. How dark that shadow is remains to be seen. But as Boban said he's "Reheated soup" The "soup" could have tasted great...but as time passes it WILL spoil and the same applies to $heva. Why settle for a di$h that was once great when you can go to the store/restauraunt and gen another fanta$tic di$h?? Especially when the chef's ma$terpiece is still in the oven and you don't know how your pie from that Genoa restauraunt is going to taste (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Wasn't he put more as a forward in the Portugual NT regarding Euro 2008? I could be wrong about that...

But he flopped in the Euro 2008. That game against Germany was quite awful.

Yeah did mean to add he was up there more for Portugal.

United don't play like that though, at least last season. That's what they were lacking and what I feel they have gained in Berbatov - a big centre forward. Rooney and Tevez do a lot of hardwork but I don't see them as out and out finishers.

I don't think anyone could expect Ronaldo to do what he did last season this season either, even though I wouldn't be too surprised if he did.

[Tennie]

Cristiano Ronaldo is not the same player for the Portuguese NT that he is for Manchester United. The marking seems to be a lot tighter in international games than it is in EPL games. Italy didn't have too much trouble with him in the recent Italy-Portugal friendly -- Quaresma was much more of a threat.

[Milan Are Brilli...]

My being a fan of Ronaldo has nothing to do with this discussion and if you're going to continue to be this hostile without provocation just indicate in the affirmative and I'll leave you and Giancarlo to agree on everything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Ronaldo is perhaps the greatest player in our generation who has surmounted odds that the likes of $h!tchel$ki could only dream about. In the end he has undoubtedly fallen from hie lofty position (his fault) but I'd take a fit Ronaldo over $$$$$heva any day....at least I'd be guarranteed some goals.

Of course $heva's not total crap. He does well for the Ukraine and would surely score a few goals for Milan....If we're fortunate they would be decisive.

What I mean when I say that he's CRAP is that BY our standards and in harmony with our ambitions he's not our guy. He is a shadow of himself. How dark that shadow is remains to be seen. But as Boban said he's "Reheated soup" The "soup" could have tasted great...but as time passes it WILL spoil and the same applies to $heva. Why settle for a di$h that was once great when you can go to the store/restauraunt and gen another fanta$tic di$h?? Especially when the chef's ma$terpiece is still in the oven and you don't know how your pie from that Genoa restauraunt is going to taste (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In no way was I being hostile towards you, at least If you felt I was I didn't mean it that way! I pointed out you liked Ronaldo (he is in your avatar). The saga of him is very similar to Shevchenko in my eyes, a gamble. You called Sheva 'crap' and I felt that was harsh as you gave Ronaldo the chance last time.

Personally I think Ronaldo is rather overrated, and a fully match-fit Shevchenko I would choose over Ronaldo but that's another debate. That's a difference of opinion I'm not too bothered by that.

I do get slightly agrieved when I hear accusations over Sheva because of the way he left. We don't call Maldini crap, useless etc Why? Because he never left Milan.

Now, thanks for explaining that but I was running off what I knew 'crap' meant so there was always going to be some confusion for me there!

[Giancarlo]

Cristiano Ronaldo is not the same player for the Portuguese NT that he is for Manchester United. The marking seems to be a lot tighter in international games than it is in EPL games. Italy didn't have too much trouble with him in the recent Italy-Portugal friendly -- Quaresma was much more of a threat.

Speaking of Quaresma... he had his debut against Locarno. 2-2 draw... terrible performance by Inter tho. This was a second tier Swiss side... Inter went 2 goals down.

Honestly, I think he's gonna flop.

[drucurl]

The facts are what? Kurt said it well enough. Shevchenko actually didn't so bad in London as most want to think.

I thought Sheva did "meh" on the field against Bologna. Meaning... eh... so-so... he's not rubbish. He'll play better with time. What obvious failings exactly? He played one game and you're already writing him off. I'm sure Ancelotti will test out 4-3-1-2 more often...

You're just angry and you have Ronaldo in your avatar. That says enough.

I'd rather pick Shevchenko then porky right now. But I guess you were fine when Ronaldo transferred over from Real Madrid in the condition he was in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Of course I was fine with ronaldo's arrival. I'm a die hard Ronaldo fan I'm not going to be pretensive or hypocritical about it.

But what I also knew is that ronaldo NEVER lost his scoring touch.....his very last act for Milan was to ensure a goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
He could be as fat as a blue whale (see Maradonna) and he'd still score. He went to the WC 2006 overweight and unfil and left as the Record WC goalscorer. He still Ran the 100m in 11s love handles and all in REAL Madrid...so of course I'd want him here. Nothing could be sweeter than having the player you love in the team that you love.

I am not angry that $heva came. I am angry that we can accept this monumental mediocrity. You yourself said he was "so-so". If $heva came...alongside a great striker or even a great striking prospect (sorry Borriello doesn't count) I wouldn never have said a word.

[Giancarlo]

Of course I was fine with ronaldo's arrival. I'm a die hard Ronaldo fan I'm not going to be pretensive or hypocritical about it.

But what I also knew is that ronaldo NEVER lost his scoring touch.....his very last act for Milan was to ensure a goal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
He could be as fat as a blue whale (see Maradonna) and he'd still score. He went to the WC 2006 overweight and unfil and left as the Record WC goalscorer. He still Ran the 100m in 11s love handles and all in REAL Madrid...so of course I'd want him here. Nothing could be sweeter than having the player you love in the team that you love.

I am not angry that $heva came. I am angry that we can accept this monumental mediocrity. You yourself said he was "so-so". If $heva came...alongside a great striker or even a great striking prospect (sorry Borriello doesn't count) I wouldn never have said a word.

Okay I'm not. I never really was a big fan of him... especially in his later years. He let himself go badly in the last few years and had little discipline. While he did score, it was not without the service from Kaka or Seedorf...

I really can't say that Ronaldo would be any better than Sheva. Frankly Sheva has always been in better shape than him. I already said we can't have 4 world class strikers, and we were not going to buy Ronaldinho AND Eto'o (or something else). It was either Ronaldinho or a world class striker.

See my point? Sheva is back-up... and I thought our transfers for attacking players (attack mids, and forwards) was done before Sheva.

I still don't agree with you on this at all.

[Tennie]

As for the merda friendly, yeah. draw. bad news as far as that goes, but mediaset is indicating that quaresma - who isn't match fit - was the only bright spot on the squad. I wouldn't write the guy off in terms of talent and ability. If he has a temper meltdown or if he and Zlatan get into a big war then..yeah, that could be bad for the merda.

[drucurl]

In no way was I being hostile towards you, at least If you felt I was I didn't mean it that way! I pointed out you liked Ronaldo (he is in your avatar). The saga of him is very similar to Shevchenko in my eyes, a gamble. You called Sheva 'crap' and I felt that was harsh as you gave Ronaldo the chance last time.

Personally I think Ronaldo is rather overrated, and a fully match-fit Shevchenko I would choose over Ronaldo but that's another debate. That's a difference of opinion I'm not too bothered by that.

I do get slightly agrieved when I hear accusations over Sheva because of the way he left. We don't call Maldini crap, useless etc Why? Because he never left Milan.

Now, thanks for explaining that but I was running off what I knew 'crap' meant so there was always going to be some confusion for me there!

Of COURSE Maldini IS crap in a sense!!! But I'll never say it because he has given sooo much to Milan. He's crap in the sense that he can't keep up with the young guns and especially the speedsters. But he has far too much respect from me to be to harsh on him. The same goes for Inzaghi....despite it being obvious that he isn't what he used to be....we're talking about the scorer of the TWO goals of our latest CL triumph.

$heva on the other hand has accomplished a lot as well but to me (and this is simply my opinion) does NOT deserve the protection from the harsh comments that the other two do because he deserted us when we were at our lowest...So I'll say that $heva is crap all the time while I'll tone down my comments about Inzaghi, Gattuso, Seedorf, Maldini and Nesta when they play poorly...I'll also never welcome any of them in their present diminished condition (I'll take Nesta back for footballing reasons as he's the best defender in the world)....especially if they depart in the manner $hitchel$ki did.

[Giancarlo]

I'm sorry. I'm just tired of the negativity and I've had enough.

I'm logging off. I don't hold grudges or bad feelings. Sheva left for his family.

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Sep 5 2008, 09:52 PM