[Giancarlo]

The one whose performance has worried me even more than the mostly-invisible Sobis has been Diego. He's veryvery good when playing for Bremen but...something wonky happens when he plays for the NT. He's not nearly as good.

Kinda reminds me of Mario Gomes with regards to the German NT...

[Tennie]

I'd give Gomez a little more time before giving him the 'choker' label. He'd only had a handful of call ups before the Euros. And he started out his Bundesliga season with very clinical finishing in Stuttgart's game this past weekend.

[Giancarlo]

I'd give Gomez a little more time before giving him the 'choker' label. He'd only had a handful of call ups before the Euros. And he started out his Bundesliga season with very clinical finishing in Stuttgart's game this past weekend.

Yeah. I'll give him more times... but the performances (or lack of) in the Euros he had were shocking... he missed many sitters...

[Zed.D]

Argentina are a tricky team. I like their style more than the Brazilian (but for obvious reasons, I will be siding with Brazil) .. Still, Argentina lay the best football in Latin America, the way they incorporate tactics into their game. They will also have a lot of experience, a super star and the potential to make the final and get the gold.

Yet, I really want Ronaldinho and Pato to get the gold.

"Brazil at its best" > "Argentina at its best"... in any aspect. just my opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But it's obvious this Brazil is far from its best.

[drucurl]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I don't get the Sobis hatred. It's only natural that he be more developed than Pato....he's three years older!!! Pato has more TALENT and more skills but there's a ceiling on how good you can be at 18...even for Ronaldo, Pele and Maradonna (ok maybe not pele (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) ) Sobis simply knows the game better. Ability-wise Pato is better than Sobis but not by that much as some think.

[dst]

Well if he knows the game better than Pato it certainly does not show on the field...

[Giancarlo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I don't get the Sobis hatred. It's only natural that he be more developed than Pato....he's three years older!!! Pato has more TALENT and more skills but there's a ceiling on how good you can be at 18...even for Ronaldo, Pele and Maradonna (ok maybe not pele (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif) ) Sobis simply knows the game better. Ability-wise Pato is better than Sobis but not by that much as some think.

Yes. Lets get a real good example of that lol... Gilardino is how many years older than Pato, yet managed to score less goals than Pato last season (even though Pato only played a half of a season). Just because he's a few years older does not mean he's better. Far from it. Pato is and always will be better than a second rate striker like Sobis. It's sad that Dunga has to rely on him. Sobis does not know the game better.

Pato is miles better than Sobis. Sobis = Oliveira

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 18 2008, 07:10 PM

[drucurl]

Yes. Lets get a real good example of that lol... Gilardino is how many years older than Pato, yet managed to score less goals than Pato last season (even though Pato only played a half of a season). Just because he's a few years older does not mean he's better. Far from it. Pato is and always will be better than a second rate striker like Sobis. It's sad that Dunga has to rely on him. Sobis does not know the game better.

Pato is miles better than Sobis. Sobis = Oliveira

First of all Olivera isn't a bad striker as you think....he had trouble fitting at Milan but that was in a particularly rough period in his life.

Secondly WE AGREE that Pato>>>>Sobis. All I said is that Sobis is more matured as a striker hence certain things would or should come easier to him as Dunga alluded to.

Thirdly Sobis was unfortunate to go to a Betis in decline where chances were few and their most creativ player Joaquin left. That's pretty tough for a 20 year old to deal with. Yet he managed to come into his own towards the end of the season.

I'm not saying that he's second rate and I'm not saying that he isn't I'm simply saying that it's too early to judge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Giancarlo]

First of all Olivera isn't a bad striker as you think....he had trouble fitting at Milan but that was in a particularly rough period in his life.

Secondly WE AGREE that Pato>>>>Sobis. All I said is that Sobis is more matured as a striker hence certain things would or should come easier to him as Dunga alluded to.

Thirdly Sobis was unfortunate to go to a Betis in decline where chances were few and their most creativ player Joaquin left. That's pretty tough for a 20 year old to deal with. Yet he managed to come into his own towards the end of the season.

I'm not saying that he's second rate and I'm not saying that he isn't I'm simply saying that it's too early to judge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Sobis would have just as many problems, if not more. Oliveira had trouble fitting in because he would be better at a team where more attention was on him... but in Milan, we work as a team. Pato fits into that structure as he connects well with many players in Milan.

Sobis is not more matured I don't think. And I think it's inappropriate that Dunga relies on him. I would even say that Jo is better. Sobis is just another player that will do fine in a lower ranked team, but flunk out in a top high pressure team like Milan.

Jo at least has CL experience.

This post has been edited by Giancarlo: Aug 18 2008, 07:25 PM

[acid911]

I'd give Gomez a little more time before giving him the 'choker' label. He'd only had a handful of call ups before the Euros. And he started out his Bundesliga season with very clinical finishing in Stuttgart's game this past weekend.

+33. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's too soon for anything for Gomez. Let's give him time. Just last year he was out of this world in the German league (at least). Plus he's about as young as they come, only 22 give or take. Would I welcome him in Milan? You bet. He's worth a risk. But I doubt we'll see him. I also wanted to see Roque Santa Cruz as a striker, but even though he won't cost much and wanted to come to Milan (from Bayern) our management is too smart for all this. Ditto for Gomez. Or Benzema. Oh well.

Argentina are a tricky team. I like their style more than the Brazilian (but for obvious reasons, I will be siding with Brazil) .. Still, Argentina lay the best football in Latin America, the way they incorporate tactics into their game. They will also have a lot of experience, a super star and the potential to make the final and get the gold.

Oh very tricky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) They are a bunch of losers labeled as talent. Beautiful football they play, but you can't hide their arrogance and over confidence. Yet with all of that they still can't win anything. Lost 0-3 to Brazil in the last Copa America. A guy like Adriano rolled them over in the one before that. What happened in the World Cup 2006 is for everyone to see.

They had a full world class XI (with the likes of Zanetti, Messi, Riquelme, Tevez, Ayala, Crespo, Rodrigez, Heinze and more) but still lost. They had a genius, that Maradona guy, and that's the reason why they won something. I can give more examples if I want to, but you can tell I'm not their biggest fan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Like you said, they play very attractive football, but I'll take the Samba variant day in and day out.

This post has been edited by acid911: Aug 18 2008, 07:24 PM

[acid911]

"Brazil at its best" > "Argentina at its best"... in any aspect. just my opinion.

And I share your opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Any day of the week.

[Rossoneri7]

Oh very tricky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) They are a bunch of losers labeled as talent. Beautiful football they play, but you can't hide their arrogance and over confidence. Yet with all of that they still can't win anything. Lost 0-3 to Brazil in the last Copa America. A guy like Adriano rolled them over in the one before that. What happened in the World Cup 2006 is for everyone to see.

They had a full world class XI (with the likes of Zanetti, Messi, Riquelme, Tevez, Ayala, Crespo, Rodrigez, Heinze and more) but still lost. They had a genius, that Maradona guy, and that's the reason why they won something. I can give more examples if I want to, but you can tell I'm not their biggest fan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Like you said, they play very attractive football, but I'll take the Samba variant day in and day out.

Fair enough, but I wasn't calling Brazils second best when compared to Argentina. It's Maradona that gave me the soft spot for Argentina, all the way till WC '94 when he was kicked out for using. Careca was another point of reference. Also in the previous edition of the WC, Argentina were very good in the group stages, and lost to Germany who were playing on home soil. I agree Brazil have more International recognition than Argentina and that is only just, because Brazil is synonymous to football and beautiful play.

It is just that I prefer a more tactically disciplined team. That is all, a matter of preference (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[acid911]

Of course it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And let it not be said that I don't respect other people's opinions. I'm very accommodating in this regard. You have every right to enjoy the footballing display by other teams, including Argentina. And excluding merda. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Point is, they are one of the top teams of world football. (Don't quote Kurt on this though). And they play very watchable football both individually and as a team. It's just that I've seen enough from them to classify them as losers. Sore losers, as a matter of fact. But still they are in the same league as Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Czechs, and more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Football won't be the same without them.

[dst]

I don't like the Brazil NT at all. Their annoying football in addition to the hype that surrounds it irritates me to no end. It seems I'm the only one here that thinks this way though...

This post has been edited by dst: Aug 18 2008, 07:50 PM

[Tennie]

Not quite, dst. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's a fin raised in agreement with you.